Who is going to continue to wear a mask after 21st June?
Discussion
vaud said:
yellowjack said:
Cheers, wiggy001, for confirming that I'm not going mad. I thought I was the only one who remembered that a few short years ago there was talk of parliamentary debates regarding the banning of the use of face coverings in public places for anti-terror and anti social behaviour reasons. Mad to see how far the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction now.
It's not mad, it's a temporary response to a wider issue.Mr Whippy said:
Everyone I see fiddles with their mask and then touches everything else, so I'd say masks are a net zero benefit.
For every droplet they catch from a lurgy person, another person is spreading the lurgy around because of them.
And no I don't believe we should learn how to use them better, because people won't, just like people don't follow lockdown etc.
Finally, give it another year and discarded masks will be the bane of littering and water course pollution.
You have an immune system for a reason. If you're that ill, stay at home if you want to avoid spreading it. Or take the new annual 'cold' vaccine, which I'm sure will appear now we have effective coronavirus vaccines.
Have you told Sage of your findings?For every droplet they catch from a lurgy person, another person is spreading the lurgy around because of them.
And no I don't believe we should learn how to use them better, because people won't, just like people don't follow lockdown etc.
Finally, give it another year and discarded masks will be the bane of littering and water course pollution.
You have an immune system for a reason. If you're that ill, stay at home if you want to avoid spreading it. Or take the new annual 'cold' vaccine, which I'm sure will appear now we have effective coronavirus vaccines.
ReallyReallyGood said:
Have you told Sage of your findings?
The excerpts from papers I've seen on the topic do tend to touch on similar concepts....ie the studies seem to rely on decent masks being worn correctly, full hygiene protocols being used etc etc etc.Has Sage published anything that suggests otherwise?
(NB I'm not a "well I'm simply not going to wear one under any circumstances" type either. But as with many things during this pandemic, Sage hasn't exactly covered itself in glory where transparency and clarity of "the science" - as there is only one - is concerned. That's been one of the govt's biggest undoings IMO).
ReallyReallyGood said:
Mr Whippy said:
Everyone I see fiddles with their mask and then touches everything else, so I'd say masks are a net zero benefit.
For every droplet they catch from a lurgy person, another person is spreading the lurgy around because of them.
And no I don't believe we should learn how to use them better, because people won't, just like people don't follow lockdown etc.
Finally, give it another year and discarded masks will be the bane of littering and water course pollution.
You have an immune system for a reason. If you're that ill, stay at home if you want to avoid spreading it. Or take the new annual 'cold' vaccine, which I'm sure will appear now we have effective coronavirus vaccines.
Have you told Sage of your findings?For every droplet they catch from a lurgy person, another person is spreading the lurgy around because of them.
And no I don't believe we should learn how to use them better, because people won't, just like people don't follow lockdown etc.
Finally, give it another year and discarded masks will be the bane of littering and water course pollution.
You have an immune system for a reason. If you're that ill, stay at home if you want to avoid spreading it. Or take the new annual 'cold' vaccine, which I'm sure will appear now we have effective coronavirus vaccines.
But then the NHS hospitals won't let you use your own mask there, because other new science says hospitals need a new mask for that specific visit. But everywhere else, the same mask you've used for months is fine.
Never mind all the mask wearers you see where there are clear creases or gaps and by definition the flow of air will just be straight out of these gaps. Unless fluid dynamics science also changed in summer 2020 and now virus particles will not follow the flow of the fluid, but will always head directly for absorbent surfaces to be captured.
Sage tell you what you need to hear. That's fine if it gets the desired net societal behaviour. But to infer that Sage are telling you absolute facts about the efficacy of masks is interesting.
ch37 said:
Presumably when a lot of people on PH visit many parts of Asia they look down upon the large percentage of people who wear masks in crowded places such as public transport? Spent some time in Hong Kong in 2019 and they were more common than not on the MTR.
The asian thing is instersting and I can see how it might benefit when your living in somewhere as densely populated as those places can be.Silly question but I assume that when said people get to the destination/place of work the masks come off?
But the key point is they are optional.
I have no issue with people who want to wear a mask in a crowded situation wearing a mask but I refuse to be happy about the mandating of such.
ch37 said:
Presumably when a lot of people on PH visit many parts of Asia they look down upon the large percentage of people who wear masks in crowded places such as public transport? Spent some time in Hong Kong in 2019 and they were more common than not on the MTR.
I look down on pretty much everyone in SE Asia, I'm 6'2".yellowjack said:
No. It IS mad. A couple of years ago respectable middle aged, middle class people out minding their own business would cross the street to avoid a group of other people with their faces covered. Now they cross the street to avoid people who don't have their faces covered. Add to that the inconclusive evidence supporting the efficacy of mask wearing and it sounds even more mad.
Actually your example is showing a correlation that is not there. A few years ago people crossed the street when they perceived a threat was in their path (youths in masks), they are still doing the same now its just the prompt is people not wearing a mask which is deemed a health risk.dave_s13 said:
ch37 said:
Presumably when a lot of people on PH visit many parts of Asia they look down upon the large percentage of people who wear masks in crowded places such as public transport? Spent some time in Hong Kong in 2019 and they were more common than not on the MTR.
The asian thing is instersting and I can see how it might benefit when your living in somewhere as densely populated as those places can be.Silly question but I assume that when said people get to the destination/place of work the masks come off?
But the key point is they are optional.
I have no issue with people who want to wear a mask in a crowded situation wearing a mask but I refuse to be happy about the mandating of such.
I have been asked by several to carry on wearing mine, because it has the distinct advantage of covering up most of my face. which I have been lead to believe represents a plus for those around me!
I have also discovered that it makes driving the 7 in winter conditions a bit more comfortable. and stops people I might know from recognizing me as I go past (Who the hell ever buys a 7 for what it might make them look like?) So I might hold on to mine for next winter?
I have also discovered that it makes driving the 7 in winter conditions a bit more comfortable. and stops people I might know from recognizing me as I go past (Who the hell ever buys a 7 for what it might make them look like?) So I might hold on to mine for next winter?
TheJimi said:
I find it desperately sad that so many people find the wearing of masks to be "no big deal"
The wearing of masks as mandated, is hugely damaging to our social fabric. Seeing lips and facial expressions is a large and important part of how we communicate and interact with others.
We've lost sight of that - quite literally.
If there was no pandemic then I would agree, I am against Islam style coverings for example, but as this is a temporary thing I'm going to carry on not being bothered about it. The wearing of masks as mandated, is hugely damaging to our social fabric. Seeing lips and facial expressions is a large and important part of how we communicate and interact with others.
We've lost sight of that - quite literally.
If somewhere asks me to wear a mask, I'll wear a mask. If they don't then I won't. Pretty obvious really.
Its funny, back in the day doing things in this way used to be called being part of a working, caring society. But as we now seem to be living in a world where it we live by the rule of "My Truth Is Better Than Your Truth!!!!" and "I Am Right Because It Said So On The Internet!!!" and essentially screw you if you're not me, old fogeys like me better get used to it.
Just another reason for us to turn against each other.
Its funny, back in the day doing things in this way used to be called being part of a working, caring society. But as we now seem to be living in a world where it we live by the rule of "My Truth Is Better Than Your Truth!!!!" and "I Am Right Because It Said So On The Internet!!!" and essentially screw you if you're not me, old fogeys like me better get used to it.
Just another reason for us to turn against each other.
Murph7355 said:
The excerpts from papers I've seen on the topic do tend to touch on similar concepts....ie the studies seem to rely on decent masks being worn correctly, full hygiene protocols being used etc etc etc.
Has Sage published anything that suggests otherwise?
(NB I'm not a "well I'm simply not going to wear one under any circumstances" type either. But as with many things during this pandemic, Sage hasn't exactly covered itself in glory where transparency and clarity of "the science" - as there is only one - is concerned. That's been one of the govt's biggest undoings IMO).
The evidence is that masks help, probably by a lot. This includes studies where the effect of incorrect use by some people is accounted for in the study method. Recent summary of research here https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118Has Sage published anything that suggests otherwise?
(NB I'm not a "well I'm simply not going to wear one under any circumstances" type either. But as with many things during this pandemic, Sage hasn't exactly covered itself in glory where transparency and clarity of "the science" - as there is only one - is concerned. That's been one of the govt's biggest undoings IMO).
stitched said:
I've had to wear masks for probably 30 plus years, in ATEX rated dust areas I wear a disposable filter in open flap out mask to prevent dust inhalation, not much good in the current situation as there is no filtration of exhalation.
In areas with Nitric or Hydrochloric acid I wear a complete face mask with gas filters, I am really anal about these masks, filters are disposed of in the correct receptacle after one use, mask seals and inner and outer surfaces rigorously cleaned as I worked in a place barrelling HCL, one guy was issued a positive air pressure hood which he fitted dust filters to, it sucked up the acidic gas and blew it into his face.
22 years old, 15% vision and @ 20% lung capacity, you see something like that it makes you careful.
We also run ammonia cooled glycol compressor/chillers. For those I use a positive pressure hood, again use the filters once and check the batteries weekly.
The masks I have been given by work during this are better than average, triple ply and an unlimited supply, they are also laughably ineffective against a virus.
>>>>Step outside on a cold night and watch the moisture droplets coming straight through your mask, each of those droplets is @ 1000 times bigger than the virus, also If you are infected then each of those water droplets is teeming with viruses.
Masks are only effective in making people feel protected, which leads to less social distancing.
Mind games from ineffective leaders.<<<<
On the >> << highlighted text, I don't think that is correct. While you will see breath condensation when wearing a mask, that does not imply the mask is ineffective. The condensation just shows the spread of the exhaled breath which would be similar even if the condensation was not present. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is transmitted in a large part by attaching itself to tiny water droplets in the exhaled breath. A mask will stop these water droplets and therefore stop the virus which is attached to them. It is quite true that exhaled breath on a cold day is also water droplets, so there are water droplets past the mask. This is due to the air temperature being below the dew point. Non-droplet water vapour in the breath condenses into new water droplets -past- the mask barrier and this is what is seen. These are not the same droplets which are exhaled. The mask will still stop droplets direct from the breath, so reformed droplets will contain less virus particles. Masks reducing Covid-19 spread has been looked at and they are effective. In areas with Nitric or Hydrochloric acid I wear a complete face mask with gas filters, I am really anal about these masks, filters are disposed of in the correct receptacle after one use, mask seals and inner and outer surfaces rigorously cleaned as I worked in a place barrelling HCL, one guy was issued a positive air pressure hood which he fitted dust filters to, it sucked up the acidic gas and blew it into his face.
22 years old, 15% vision and @ 20% lung capacity, you see something like that it makes you careful.
We also run ammonia cooled glycol compressor/chillers. For those I use a positive pressure hood, again use the filters once and check the batteries weekly.
The masks I have been given by work during this are better than average, triple ply and an unlimited supply, they are also laughably ineffective against a virus.
>>>>Step outside on a cold night and watch the moisture droplets coming straight through your mask, each of those droplets is @ 1000 times bigger than the virus, also If you are infected then each of those water droplets is teeming with viruses.
Masks are only effective in making people feel protected, which leads to less social distancing.
Mind games from ineffective leaders.<<<<
Iminquarantine said:
On the >> << highlighted text, I don't think that is correct. While you will see breath condensation when wearing a mask, that does not imply the mask is ineffective. The condensation just shows the spread of the exhaled breath which would be similar even if the condensation was not present. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is transmitted in a large part by attaching itself to tiny water droplets in the exhaled breath. A mask will stop these water droplets and therefore stop the virus which is attached to them. It is quite true that exhaled breath on a cold day is also water droplets, so there are water droplets past the mask. This is due to the air temperature being below the dew point. Non-droplet water vapour in the breath condenses into new water droplets -past- the mask barrier and this is what is seen. These are not the same droplets which are exhaled. The mask will still stop droplets direct from the breath, so reformed droplets will contain less virus particles. Masks reducing Covid-19 spread has been looked at and they are effective.
I think you actually believe this. lolomniflow said:
Step 4 - No sooner than June 21
- All limits on social contact, such as rule of six, to be removed for both indoor and outdoor settings
- Rest of society to reopen, such as nightclubs and other businesses which did not reopen following first lockdown
- Social distancing will remain in place until Step 4, with a review taking place ahead of that date looking at how the advice can be removed
How that's supposed to work with Nightclubs opening June 21st if social distancing remains in place until September? It's been a good few years since I've been in a nightclub I'll admit, but from what I recall they are not exactly known for being places where people keep their distance from one another - whether that be at the bar or on the dance floor.- All limits on social contact, such as rule of six, to be removed for both indoor and outdoor settings
- Rest of society to reopen, such as nightclubs and other businesses which did not reopen following first lockdown
- Social distancing will remain in place until Step 4, with a review taking place ahead of that date looking at how the advice can be removed
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