NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
Andeh1 said:
youngsyr said:
I'm genuinely amazed (and very disappointed) that your two voices are the only two taking into account what a lot if front line and other NHS staff have been through over the past year.
They've all risked their lives and 230 have even lost them to care for a huge number of people way beyond any natural disaster in living memory. 130,000 odd thousand people have been killed in case some need reminding.
And it's not just front line workers that have been affected, many have been pulled out of non-front line roles to plug the gaps.
Still, they should be thankful they've got a job and a small number had a cushy time and some people in the private sector have lost their jobs, so the NHS should be grateful for a weekly clap and no more, eh?!
But that's what the job is? This isn't a sudden "armed forces now playing nurses & doctors.. Give them money for this extra birden"... Its doctors & nurses doing what doctors & nurses are paid for. People get sick, people die, NHS staff get paid to staff it.They've all risked their lives and 230 have even lost them to care for a huge number of people way beyond any natural disaster in living memory. 130,000 odd thousand people have been killed in case some need reminding.
And it's not just front line workers that have been affected, many have been pulled out of non-front line roles to plug the gaps.
Still, they should be thankful they've got a job and a small number had a cushy time and some people in the private sector have lost their jobs, so the NHS should be grateful for a weekly clap and no more, eh?!
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 02:11
Everything else has been dropped, canceled or reduced to allow them to focus on covid. People dieing in A&E is now people dieing of covid. People dieing of winter flu are now dieing of covid, car crashes? Sports injuries? Brawling outside the pub? Gym injuries? Nope, all down because of lockdown.
I havnt had a 12% pay rise adding together my last 8 years, what I have done is worry about my security & future employment prospects at the economy tanks & my business barely survived...
What have nurses/docs done above & beyond to deserve above & beyond pay rises (genuine question)?
Suggest maybe you go retrain.
anxious_ant said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Indeed. They seem to find money for other stuff, £350K ex legal fees to compensate the victims of Priti Patel's vile behaviour, yet she's still in a job. Millions to be spend redecoration No10 to Carrie's demands. Billions spunked an dodgy PPE contracts to mates of ministers who never delivered. A million a day to deloitte to run a track and trace fiasco, presided over by Dildo Hard-In, with no disclosure over her salary, working hours etc.
Seeing Sarkozy get 3 yrs jail gives me some hope that in years to come, these thieving corrupt
s will be chained together and breaking rocks.
Tories... 'nuff said.Seeing Sarkozy get 3 yrs jail gives me some hope that in years to come, these thieving corrupt
s will be chained together and breaking rocks. I was a key worker last year enabling people to WFH, halfway through the year we had to agree to a “voluntary” pay cut, in the end myself along with many colleagues were still made redundant. Two months later I secured another job, again as a key worker, enabling more people to WFH. All the while being coughed over by people apparently unable to wear or use a mask properly on public transport in London.
I still have a job thankfully, but on 25% less than I was earning this time last year.
Not sure why the NHS as a whole deserve a massive pay rise when the rest of us have all been taking pay cuts and losing jobs. A cash bonus for the front line staff would be nice, but perhaps once the government have figured out a way to dig the country out of the hole it’s found itself in first?
oyster said:
Sierra Nevada said:
What happened to the £350m a week brexit dividend? Surely that's enough to pay for the NHS pay rise many times over.
My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
I’d be willing to bet my house that more than half of PH’ers have had enormous pay cuts in the last year, nothing like pay rises.My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
Do you actually know what the economy is like right now?
My household income is down by nearly 70%. Do you fancy a 70% pay cut?
JagLover said:
In terms of the whole public private pay differential debate
This is the latest data
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55089900#:~:text=The%20...
Unadjusted for education and qualifications public sector workers get around 9% more. After adjusting for that they get paid about the same as workers in the private sector.
There was a time when they were paid a significant premium, during the Labour years, but that has faded due to pay restraint since 2010.
This analysis does of course exclude the elephant in the room, which is pensions, and which are far more generous in the public sector.
These surveys don't show the whole picture. Certainly the Civil Service and I assume much of the public sector have outsourced lower paid jobs thereby skewing the results.This is the latest data
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55089900#:~:text=The%20...
Unadjusted for education and qualifications public sector workers get around 9% more. After adjusting for that they get paid about the same as workers in the private sector.
There was a time when they were paid a significant premium, during the Labour years, but that has faded due to pay restraint since 2010.
This analysis does of course exclude the elephant in the room, which is pensions, and which are far more generous in the public sector.
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 6th March 08:07
Unless you compare like for like it is meaningless.
I have worked for both the private sector and the public sector, doing pretty much the same job in each. The private sector has in every case paid more with very attractive benefits.
A direct example,
I left a Civil Service job to join the private sector in 2016, one of my team applied for and was successful in a role in my new team about 12-18 months later.
He was earning around £45k in the Civil Service (Whitehall based), he joined me on £60k + car+ bonus.
His last full year in the Civil Service his review rated him highly and he was awarded a £300 bonus.
His first full year in the new company again rated him highly and he received an uplift on his bonus, he received just under £12k.
He was doing exactly the same job.
Gecko1978 said:
oyster said:
Sierra Nevada said:
What happened to the £350m a week brexit dividend? Surely that's enough to pay for the NHS pay rise many times over.
My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
I’d be willing to bet my house that more than half of PH’ers have had enormous pay cuts in the last year, nothing like pay rises.My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
Do you actually know what the economy is like right now?
My household income is down by nearly 70%. Do you fancy a 70% pay cut?
My wife, a nurse, is still on 100% of her pay
Our household income has dropped by around 30% overall though
I’m fortunate that the work I was doing was out of choice not necessity and I didn’t need to earn it
The difference is stark though
I have friends in the public sector generally and my old job who state they have never earned as much money as in the last year
There are plenty that are working from home and have been for 13 months now
On the other side of the coin I know plenty in the private sector that have been crucified financially
The optics of .. we’ve spent the last year doing what we are paid to do .. so give us more money aren’t good
oyster said:
I’d be willing to bet my house that more than half of PH’ers have had enormous pay cuts in the last year, nothing like pay rises.
Do you actually know what the economy is like right now?
My household income is down by nearly 70%. Do you fancy a 70% pay cut?
I only know one person who has had to take a pay cut. Do you actually know what the economy is like right now?
My household income is down by nearly 70%. Do you fancy a 70% pay cut?
That was my Stepson, but he was earning a very significant salary before the cut of 20%
glazbagun said:
Rather than a pay increase, which would affect future staff and pensions, I'd have thought a one-off bonus would make more sense.
Given that the government has been happy to furlough every man and their dog, dropping a eye catching cash bomb on nurses and ICU staff who were actually working pretty solidly would seem a great PR opportunity. This is up there with Clegg's uni fees u-turn, with the difference that the NHS probably arent Conservative voters.
I don't like <insert party> bashing in general, but I do wonder if the Tories have some massive blind spot or prejudice against health staff. I felt similarly amazed when student grants were removed for nursing students, effectively making their degree more expensive than more profitable ones.
I agree. And target it at those who worked in Covid risk locations. The NHS admin staff do not need it.Given that the government has been happy to furlough every man and their dog, dropping a eye catching cash bomb on nurses and ICU staff who were actually working pretty solidly would seem a great PR opportunity. This is up there with Clegg's uni fees u-turn, with the difference that the NHS probably arent Conservative voters.
I don't like <insert party> bashing in general, but I do wonder if the Tories have some massive blind spot or prejudice against health staff. I felt similarly amazed when student grants were removed for nursing students, effectively making their degree more expensive than more profitable ones.
MrJuice said:
Downward said:
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They need to be taxed on the BIK for staying in hotels. fDon’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
kers living it up while the rest of us bear the brunt of this st The crux of any exceptional award should be to target those FRONT LINE NURSING (& probably direct support staff such as porters who were exposed) staff, due to their exceptional exposure to infection and the undoubted work-place stress; set against their relatively low pay level. This is set against a solid gold job security, pensions etc.
Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
Lord.Vader said:
No payrise or bonus for me this year, who can I complain to?
1% is better than 0% considering how ruined the country is.
The NHS get paid to care for people, so they’ve done their job.
Did your job significantly increase your risk of death over the past year?1% is better than 0% considering how ruined the country is.
The NHS get paid to care for people, so they’ve done their job.
How much overtime did you do?
How many of your colleagues were killed?
princeperch said:
I'm genuinely intrigued. Can any of the powerfully built company directors answer me this :
The average nurses salary in London, with a few years experience, is about 35k.
If a nurse is working in a central London hospital, perhaps working shifts, perhaps working nights, where do you expect them to be able to afford to live? Peterborough? Lincoln?
If they're working shifts , perhaps nights I'd expect the topic of therelated extra pay to be included in the discussion.The average nurses salary in London, with a few years experience, is about 35k.
If a nurse is working in a central London hospital, perhaps working shifts, perhaps working nights, where do you expect them to be able to afford to live? Peterborough? Lincoln?
I know a lot of nurses who do this: talk about their basic then mention working 'extras' without mentioning the extra pay.
MrJuice said:
The franchise fee, lease and insurance and maybe servicing are the fixed costs. Furlough or equivalent should cover the wages/profit aspect, even if you have to wait for it (obviously very painful to wait when you have £7 in your account).
I'm surprised the fixed costs are that high.
To be fair fuel is in there too but that’s only £250, I could reduce them by purchasing outright, not changing every 24months,buying an older car, insuring separately, paying for servicing etc but because of my mileage, it actually works out better in terms of offsetting expenses. Also, it reduces the headache. My lease covers literally everything. Tyre damage, 3 services a year, insurance, guaranteed replacement dual control car within 24hrs if mine is off the road. I also charge a slightly higher rate/premium service so my car needs to be constantly updated. Frustratingly, now that 19/20 tax year is being used for the next grant I’ll actually receive more than last year. There’s also the additional restrictions grant that I’ve applied for. And from April, I’ll be back to doing 8hrs of lessons a day/5 days. I'm surprised the fixed costs are that high.
Having said that, ARG grant is turning into a joke. It’s for any business forced to close that doesn’t necessarily pay business rates as not working from fixed premises, not just entertainment industry. Many local Authorities are just sitting on the money, dragging their feet. Link below. I’m in Hounslow... Enfield is the real scandal. They’ve been sitting on £7million since Oct and only now (8th March) are they opening up applications for the 1st lot for Nov-Dec.
This may be useful reading
https://www.conference-news.co.uk/coronavirus-upda...
So forgive me if I’ve little sympathy for someone fully employed, doing a job they signed up for.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 6th March 13:12
JagLover said:
youngsyr said:
T6 vanman said:
youngsyr said:
Your grasp on statistical analysis is basic, to say the least.
Have another try.
I was editing whilst you posted ...... Have another try.
What's your answer to "like for like" ratio of less than half the UK population??
It's just a heart string comment that NHS staff are dying due to their job not based on facts
And I agree with your conclusion about as much as I agree with your statistics, which is to say: not at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608
"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Did you work for the Trump campaign? Your grasp of statistics and the truth seems extremely tenuous.
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