NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
A Winner Is You said:
youngsyr said:
ggdrew said:
The crux of any exceptional award should be to target those FRONT LINE NURSING (& probably direct support staff such as porters who were exposed) staff, due to their exceptional exposure to infection and the undoubted work-place stress; set against their relatively low pay level. This is set against a solid gold job security, pensions etc.
Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
A one off bonus for front line staff makes much more sense to me too.Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
I'd make it £1k and give it to everyone who had regular contact with Covid positive patients; its not about what your salary is, its a one-off reward as a thank you from the country for your efforts.
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
Anyone who volunteered and performed duties under that recruitment drive should also automatically qualify.
youngsyr said:
Andeh1 said:
youngsyr said:
I thought I'd already pointed out clearly what they had done above and beyond to deserve more than 1%, but you seem to want to ignore it.
A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
Well, yes. It's a risk of the job, be around sick people, get sick?A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
You don't get to suddenly demand extra pay because your obvious job has obvious risks. Fireman havnt turned around & demanded a 12.5% pay rise because the fire was hotter then expected?
A less than once in a 100 year event, for which your employer is totally unprepared and initially at least provides you with inadequate PPE that you know for a fact puts your life at real risk, is just a normal part of the job?
And it's equivalent to a normal day's work for a fireman?
If that is truly your opinion then I'm genuinely concerned for you, or more accurately those who encounter you.
The once in a hundred year event, ignoring of course spanish flu and 2 world wars, for which my employer was unprepared, well yes completely. That is why I had to work in ATEX dust areas without the facemasks normally provided, they went to the NHS.
Firemen generally have a fairly cushy time of things, not complaining about that because once in a while you have to deal with an event of stunning ferocity, twin towers or an oil refinery blaze.
None of that was hidden from them before the event.
Now find me a nurse who has not been aware of the pandemic response modelling being done?
There aren't any.
So just like all of us who have buried loved ones not treated due to covid and carried on putting food on your tables.
Another days work.
I am guessing you sat this one out?
Did they really expect the Government to open the coughers and chuck loads of money at them? If they did then I would say they are deluded in this respect.
The Government have a put out their marker, created a problem so Boris can be the knight in shining armour and offer 2% or whatever they think they can get away with. I'm not sure how people saying they will leave the NHS will help drive up salaries as there are not enough similar jobs in the private health care sector to create enough competition for staff to achieve this.
I heard one of the unions on TV this morning extolling the economic benefits to the country of giving a massive pay rise to NHS staff but completely forgetting or ignoring that the NHS is a straight bottom line financial cost to the country.
The NHS isn't what I would call a cash generator like a commercial business that can contribute to the UK in terms of money but underpins people's health which is hard to quantify in straight financial terms.
The Government have a put out their marker, created a problem so Boris can be the knight in shining armour and offer 2% or whatever they think they can get away with. I'm not sure how people saying they will leave the NHS will help drive up salaries as there are not enough similar jobs in the private health care sector to create enough competition for staff to achieve this.
I heard one of the unions on TV this morning extolling the economic benefits to the country of giving a massive pay rise to NHS staff but completely forgetting or ignoring that the NHS is a straight bottom line financial cost to the country.
The NHS isn't what I would call a cash generator like a commercial business that can contribute to the UK in terms of money but underpins people's health which is hard to quantify in straight financial terms.
Earthdweller said:
Starting with me ...
My next door neighbour who works in construction who has been out of work most of the year
My other neighbour who has a hairdressing salon that she only opened/refurbished in Nov 19
My niece who works in hotel management who is stacking shelves
The guy who is now doing our local DPD delivery as his cafe is closed
A friend who has lost his job as an airline pilot and who was working in a care home to pay as much of his mortgage as possible
My brother in law who is a carpenter and because the work has dried up is now working as a cashier in a Petrol station
I could go on and on with peopIe know who have been negatively affected and are a lot worse of than they were a year ago
Equally, I know a few that have never earned as much money
Fair enough, genuinely baffled why construction/carpenter is struggling - around here construction work has continued and skills remain in demand. An inlaw is a builder, he can't get trades at the moment, they are too busy.My next door neighbour who works in construction who has been out of work most of the year
My other neighbour who has a hairdressing salon that she only opened/refurbished in Nov 19
My niece who works in hotel management who is stacking shelves
The guy who is now doing our local DPD delivery as his cafe is closed
A friend who has lost his job as an airline pilot and who was working in a care home to pay as much of his mortgage as possible
My brother in law who is a carpenter and because the work has dried up is now working as a cashier in a Petrol station
I could go on and on with peopIe know who have been negatively affected and are a lot worse of than they were a year ago
Equally, I know a few that have never earned as much money
If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Earthdweller said:
I’m down almost 100% in my earnings, fortunately my public sector pension is still being payed
My wife, a nurse, is still on 100% of her pay
Our household income has dropped by around 30% overall though
I’m fortunate that the work I was doing was out of choice not necessity and I didn’t need to earn it
The difference is stark though
I have friends in the public sector generally and my old job who state they have never earned as much money as in the last year
There are plenty that are working from home and have been for 13 months now
On the other side of the coin I know plenty in the private sector that have been crucified financially
The optics of .. we’ve spent the last year doing what we are paid to do .. so give us more money aren’t good
Don't get me wrong I am feeling the pain and actually think strike action would destroy good will. I think we have to balance out the reaction with outrage at 1% with the balance of thoguht that is 1% is way more then many who have no imcome now etc.My wife, a nurse, is still on 100% of her pay
Our household income has dropped by around 30% overall though
I’m fortunate that the work I was doing was out of choice not necessity and I didn’t need to earn it
The difference is stark though
I have friends in the public sector generally and my old job who state they have never earned as much money as in the last year
There are plenty that are working from home and have been for 13 months now
On the other side of the coin I know plenty in the private sector that have been crucified financially
The optics of .. we’ve spent the last year doing what we are paid to do .. so give us more money aren’t good
Russ T Bolt said:
Fair enough, genuinely baffled why construction/carpenter is struggling - around here construction work has continued and skills remain in demand. An inlaw is a builder, he can't get trades at the moment, they are too busy.
If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Everything but essential construction has been shut down here for most of the year If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Trades haven’t been allowed to enter people’s homes to work
HRL said:
anxious_ant said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Indeed. They seem to find money for other stuff, £350K ex legal fees to compensate the victims of Priti Patel's vile behaviour, yet she's still in a job. Millions to be spend redecoration No10 to Carrie's demands. Billions spunked an dodgy PPE contracts to mates of ministers who never delivered. A million a day to deloitte to run a track and trace fiasco, presided over by Dildo Hard-In, with no disclosure over her salary, working hours etc.
Seeing Sarkozy get 3 yrs jail gives me some hope that in years to come, these thieving corrupt
s will be chained together and breaking rocks.
Tories... 'nuff said.Seeing Sarkozy get 3 yrs jail gives me some hope that in years to come, these thieving corrupt
s will be chained together and breaking rocks. Earthdweller said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Fair enough, genuinely baffled why construction/carpenter is struggling - around here construction work has continued and skills remain in demand. An inlaw is a builder, he can't get trades at the moment, they are too busy.
If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Everything but essential construction has been shut down here for most of the year If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Trades haven’t been allowed to enter people’s homes to work
garyhun said:
Earthdweller said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Fair enough, genuinely baffled why construction/carpenter is struggling - around here construction work has continued and skills remain in demand. An inlaw is a builder, he can't get trades at the moment, they are too busy.
If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Everything but essential construction has been shut down here for most of the year If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Trades haven’t been allowed to enter people’s homes to work
JagLover said:
youngsyr said:
Jesus Christ.
"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Eh?"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Look at the chart further on down Nursing is fifth not third for women and is less dangerous (on this measure) than retail worker or government administrator.
What seems to be considerably more dangerous is care worker. Have you been out banging your pots and pans for them?
My wife is a key worker and been working in an air conditioned office throughout. No doubt why this occupation has a higher death rate than nursing.
youngsyr said:
A one off bonus for front line staff makes much more sense to me too.
I'd make it £1k and give it to everyone who had regular contact with Covid positive patients; its not about what your salary is, its a one-off reward as a thank you from the country for your efforts.
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
Given the large percentage of infections happening inside hospitals we could give them some stickers for their cars akin to fight pilots showing what they've shot down.I'd make it £1k and give it to everyone who had regular contact with Covid positive patients; its not about what your salary is, its a one-off reward as a thank you from the country for your efforts.
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
valiant said:
garyhun said:
Earthdweller said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Fair enough, genuinely baffled why construction/carpenter is struggling - around here construction work has continued and skills remain in demand. An inlaw is a builder, he can't get trades at the moment, they are too busy.
If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Everything but essential construction has been shut down here for most of the year If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.
Trades haven’t been allowed to enter people’s homes to work
loskie said:
Maybe a bit radical but I've often thought why not cut the hours? Keep pay the same, increase the workforce to make up for reduced hours. Increase employment, increase staff pool and reduce the impact when staff leave as the pool is greater.
Good post. The union would have a fit though. Strange when they claim to have the welfare of their staff at heart
No need to cut hours, just do your contracted 37. (Which is what I've assumed you meant)
johnboy1975 said:
loskie said:
Maybe a bit radical but I've often thought why not cut the hours? Keep pay the same, increase the workforce to make up for reduced hours. Increase employment, increase staff pool and reduce the impact when staff leave as the pool is greater.
Good post. The union would have a fit though. Strange when they claim to have the welfare of their staff at heart
No need to cut hours, just do your contracted 37. (Which is what I've assumed you meant)
johnboy1975 said:
loskie said:
Maybe a bit radical but I've often thought why not cut the hours? Keep pay the same, increase the workforce to make up for reduced hours. Increase employment, increase staff pool and reduce the impact when staff leave as the pool is greater.
Good post. The union would have a fit though. Strange when they claim to have the welfare of their staff at heart
No need to cut hours, just do your contracted 37. (Which is what I've assumed you meant)
Unions would love to have extra staff employed as it firstly means more members which means a bit more clout and it also means that their members would have a better work/life balance.
Reduced hours for the same money is the same as a pay rise and what many unions are already fighting for.
JagLover said:
youngsyr said:
Jesus Christ.
"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Eh?"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Look at the chart further on down Nursing is fifth not third for women and is less dangerous (on this measure) than retail worker or government administrator.
What seems to be considerably more dangerous is care worker. Have you been out banging your pots and pans for them?
My wife is a key worker and been working in an air conditioned office throughout. No doubt why this occupation has a higher death rate than nursing.
And now you're moving onto some top class "whataboutism".
valiant said:
johnboy1975 said:
loskie said:
Maybe a bit radical but I've often thought why not cut the hours? Keep pay the same, increase the workforce to make up for reduced hours. Increase employment, increase staff pool and reduce the impact when staff leave as the pool is greater.
Good post. The union would have a fit though. Strange when they claim to have the welfare of their staff at heart
No need to cut hours, just do your contracted 37. (Which is what I've assumed you meant)
Unions would love to have extra staff employed as it firstly means more members which means a bit more clout and it also means that their members would have a better work/life balance.
Reduced hours for the same money is the same as a pay rise and what many unions are already fighting for.
Which is a better argument than "we've been busy"
Another vote for a bonus rather than a "payrise because of covid". Tesco got 10% on all hours worked in April and December. Something like that would (have) work(ed)
Perhaps a one off bonus like the Scottish NHS staff are getting: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/r...
BlueJazz said:
Perhaps a one off bonus like the Scottish NHS staff are getting: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/r...
Being in Scotland, that’s what I got.Although it became £285 after tax and NI.
Then the £285 went to Dunelm towards some new curtains
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