NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)

[anonymous-user]

smashing said:

Pappyjohn said:

I appreciate people saying they aren't getting pay rises so the nurses should be happy with 1 percent. Lots of online views state that delivery drivers and supermarket workers aren't getting anything so why should nurses.

Fair enough, but the majority of people haven't spent the last year surrounded by people dying. Most people haven't had to hold someone's hand as they passed away because no friends or family were allowed to be there.

30 grand a year for that? No thank you, I would rather not do that job and I'm perfectly happy with paying them properly so at least when they get home they can enjoy life.

Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.

Alright calm down. Don't take out your personal problems on me.

[T6 vanman]

Murph7355 said:

El stovey said:

...
If they get a 12.5% pay rise or a 12.5% pay cut, you’re not going to get any more or less. ...

Where public sector pay is concerned, that's not necessarily the case as taxes are being used to pay for it.

Boom .... Nail to head,
Because we're tax payers and in the current economic climate bending the country over and threatening to strike for 12.5% increase is obscene.
It effects me because it alters the economy and as a tax payer it deprives another public service, & I want good public services, Health, Education, Bin collection, Police, Fire, Armed Forces ... The whole lot and am willing to pay for them, but not a single one of those that provide those (and others hidden) services are any less deserving than a NHS worker,
None of those others are bending the country over after a 2018 inflation busting up to over 20% pay increase.

[rufusgti]

El stovey said:

If I thought nurses were well paid and thought it was an easy job and saw they were possibly getting a pay rise when I wasn’t and it annoyed me, I’d go and retrain to be a nurse instead of complaining about them trying to get a pay rise.

Well said. And this is precisely and obviously what we do need. The NHS obviously needs more staff so it better be an appealing prospect to young men and women looking for a career. Or the next time anything like covid comes round they will be pushed even harder again the wall.

The NHS staff deserve at the very least a cost of living/ inline with inflation payrise. At the very least. Anyone who suggests otherwise is at best short sighted.

[princeperch]

You can get 3/35 grand a year driving a bus for fks sake.

Some of the comments on this thread have really depressed me to be honest.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I have a few friends and family members in the NHS ranging from nurses to junior doctors to surgeons and ALL have had to deal with people dying alone over the last year.

Also, now you're blaming NHS staff for spreading the virus by discharging people! Lol

[LetsTryAgain]

I think at some point the public are going to have to get used to the idea that tomorrow isn’t going to be better than today (for most of us) and that we are essentially a bankrupt nation.

[survivalist]

otolith said:

That’s not how it works, someone else should pay the extra tax. Those rich bds or Amazon or...

The opposition is going to roll the government’s errors during Covid with money wasted on spivs into this and monster them on it. They needed a solution which stood up to the rhetoric and clapping, and this is not it.

A misstep by a fundamentally populist administration.

Assume you mean the Labour Party? They won't get anywhere because they are even more populist and such a poor alternative that we will be forced to vote for the conservatives for the next 8 years.12 months ago I would have been amazed if you'd told me that Kier Starmer could make himself irrelevant in 12 months, but as far as I can see that's exactly what's happened.

[survivalist]

Roboraver said:

smashing said:

Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.

$ickhead comment. $uck you $osser,

He makes a valid point. If you work in ICU, you are used to a significant number of people dying. Why is 2020 different to 2019?

While some will agree that every death is a tragedy ( I don't BTW), even they have to concede that if you deal with it every day then the excess deaths of 2020 aren't of colossal magnitude.

[anonymous-user]

survivalist said:

Roboraver said:

smashing said:

Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.

$ickhead comment. $uck you $osser,

He makes a valid point. If you work in ICU, you are used to a significant number of people dying. Why is 2020 different to 2019?

While some will agree that every death is a tragedy ( I don't BTW), even they have to concede that if you deal with it every day then the excess deaths of 2020 aren't of colossal magnitude.

No death is tragic until it affects you.

[loskie]

rossub said:

My comment was probably a bit harsh, but I still think you’re mugging yourself. All well and good if you’re pushing for promotion, but it doesn’t sound like you are...

In my experience of working in the Public Sector, nobody cares if you do loads of extra hours and as soon as you’re retired, you’re forgotten. I probably do 2-3 hours a week extra to keep face with me being on a higher pay grade, but very rarely any more than that.

You are sadly dead right. Decent folks retire or leave for pastures new and very soon or immediately are forgotten . Those that replace them though are noticeably poor in comparison.

And sadly if I were to go for promotion I would be pretty much deskbound, not what I want. Plus I'm not sure I want to be part of the management much of which I view with contempt. I'm fortunate though I don't need to be driven by money.

[Otispunkmeyer]

On the face of it, we’ve spent nearly 400bn? Extra in the last year “protecting the NHS” or “saving the NHS”

I think to ask for a pay rise on top of that when they made out like the whole edifice was at risk of crumbling to nothing is just very poor optics. I mean boiled down, that’s what they’ve been saying over the last year. the NHS still functions and still has people in jobs because we’ve saved it with incredible spending. I dare say they should be just grateful for that and that they are still gainfully employed.

I know the pay issue pre dates Covid and that they also have a lot of un-filled vacancies, presumably because (amongst other reasons) the salaries will be too low to attract the right people. That is of course unfortunate. But having spent what we’ve spent, I don’t know why someone isn’t just putting their foot down and saying we just can’t afford it. We saved jobs at great cost but we can’t do any more.

I don’t think that is unreasonable given the circumstances. Maybe a promise can be made to do a rollover in the coming years if/when the financial outlook improves. I know it’s jam tomorrow, but what else is there?

At our place we’ve shed a lot of work force, a lot of good, extremely knowledgeable people who will be missed, no one is getting even an inflationary pay rise this year and many of the higher ups have actually taken significant pay reductions (presumably they’ll be paid that back if and when financial conditions at the company allow, and that’s absolutely fine).

That’s the rather good reality for some people and for a lot of others the reality is much more bleak; lost jobs, lost businesses, savings and emergency funds burned up and now there aren’t two pennies to rub together.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Saturday 6th March 20:21

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Saturday 6th March 20:23

[Fun Bus]

Russ T Bolt said:

If our regular DPD driver (been delivering to us for years) is typical, your friend will be ok. Last time I saw him he said he was £3k a month up.

You mean £300?

[survivalist]

Pappyjohn said:

survivalist said:

Roboraver said:

smashing said:

Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.

$ickhead comment. $uck you $osser,

He makes a valid point. If you work in ICU, you are used to a significant number of people dying. Why is 2020 different to 2019?

While some will agree that every death is a tragedy ( I don't BTW), even they have to concede that if you deal with it every day then the excess deaths of 2020 aren't of colossal magnitude.

No death is tragic until it affects you.

Even when it does affect you, sometimes it’s a relief. The tragedy is the toll the disease takes before the person actually dies.

One of my criticisms of the pandemic response, society and the medical profession is that they are reticent to talk about quality of life. All the focus is on keeping people alive, when in many cases it should be a discussion about recovery (or lack thereof)

[rufusgti]

LetsTryAgain said:

I think at some point the public are going to have to get used to the idea that tomorrow isn’t going to be better than today (for most of us) and that we are essentially a bankrupt nation.

I'm not sure the majority accept that. I hope not anyway. That kind of defeatist attitude will sink a ship.

Although if we insist on voting in bumbling populist clowns with a history of bullst, then yes, I guess we get what we ask for.

[anonymous-user]

T6 vanman said:

Murph7355 said:

El stovey said:

...
If they get a 12.5% pay rise or a 12.5% pay cut, you’re not going to get any more or less. ...

Where public sector pay is concerned, that's not necessarily the case as taxes are being used to pay for it.

Boom .... Nail to head,
Because we're tax payers and in the current economic climate bending the country over and threatening to strike for 12.5% increase is obscene.
It effects me because it alters the economy and as a tax payer it deprives another public service, & I want good public services, Health, Education, Bin collection, Police, Fire, Armed Forces ... The whole lot and am willing to pay for them, but not a single one of those that provide those (and others hidden) services are any less deserving than a NHS worker,
None of those others are bending the country over after a 2018 inflation busting up to over 20% pay increase.

I’m not sure how much tax you actually do pay but why not imagine your share of the tax goes into things you like and enjoy and use rather than things that upset you (like potentially increasing nurses pay)

That way you won’t be so upset about these things.

Plus you’ve already stated your objection to nurses getting pay rises is based on fairness and your own circumstances and that of your son not the wider economy.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 6th March 21:13

[youngsyr]

survivalist said:

Roboraver said:

smashing said:

Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.

$ickhead comment. $uck you $osser,

He makes a valid point. If you work in ICU, you are used to a significant number of people dying. Why is 2020 different to 2019?

While some will agree that every death is a tragedy ( I don't BTW), even they have to concede that if you deal with it every day then the excess deaths of 2020 aren't of colossal magnitude.

Fking hell, there are some ignorant people in here.

Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?

You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?

I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.

Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.

I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.

Please educate yourselves, FFS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...

Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 21:21

[johnboy1975]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

End (untargetted) furlough 31st April. Open everything bar nightclubs and travel 1st May. Continue to support these industries where needed (get them back up and running ASAP)

Must be over £50b there? (More?) I've said on another thread AFAIK a solicitor can claim furlough due to childcare commitments over the summer holiday (rather than taking unpaid leave as they would have previously). I can see this being a problem. Happy to be corrected.

Stop project moonshot (testing anything that moves). Another 100b? Are we really going to conduct 10m tests a day over the summer, with low prevalence and all the vunerable and 50+ jabbed, and chunks of the younger population vaccinated too? Why?

Give the lower bands 3% tapering down to 2% for the higher bands.

Although - people moaning that £3 quid a week is "derisory ", you could apply the same argument to £6, or £9.......

[voyds9]

youngsyr said:

Fking hell, there are some ignorant people in here.

Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?

You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?

I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.

Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.

I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.

Please educate yourselves, FFS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...

Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 21:21

So annually about 530,000 people die in the UK but nurses are shocked and suffering from 125,000 deaths (mainly in very old people).

Oh and the Hong Kong flu killed 89,000 in iirc 1972-73 so not really a once in a century occurrence

[youngsyr]

voyds9 said:

youngsyr said:

Fking hell, there are some ignorant people in here.

Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?

You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?

I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.

Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.

I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.

Please educate yourselves, FFS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...

Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 21:21

So annually about 530,000 people die in the UK but nurses are shocked and suffering from 125,000 deaths (mainly in very old people).

Oh and the Hong Kong flu killed 89,000 in iirc 1972-73 so not really a once in a century occurrence

Did you even read the article?

You know, the one where healthcare workers explain in their own words how it's impacted them?

Or are you just going to continue to think that you're right and they're wrong?

[leef44]

I am surprised there is so little sympathy for the nurses. Is this due to the frustration of lockdown? Is it because of the way the government handled the whole crisis? It's not right to take it out on the nurses. They did not make the decisions nor did they ask to face what they did.

What we went through over the last year was one of the most difficult periods for anyone in the NHS in a lifetime.

They were challenged with physical and mental stress of working way passed their peak to try not to see another person die. And when another patient dies, someone has to go through that mental drain of telling the family.

They were working way passed their normal shifts and did not just drop everything to say my shift is over just let the patient die. I don't think you can compare this to a normal job.

To then face an abysmal 1% pay rise is an insult. I understand that pay structure is a constraint. An exceptional bonus for an exceptional year would be more appropriate. Say a one-off 10% bonus.