NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
This makes interesting reading;
https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-g...
As I read it (only had time for a cursory glance) but nurses get a guaranteed rise within their grade (as long as they are not at the top of their grade) plus the annual pay rise so many will get 1% PLUS their ‘inter grade rise’ which is determined by time in the job.
I was interested also to see it’s possible to earn up to £104k as a nurse though I suspect that’s some sort of top management post?
https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-g...
As I read it (only had time for a cursory glance) but nurses get a guaranteed rise within their grade (as long as they are not at the top of their grade) plus the annual pay rise so many will get 1% PLUS their ‘inter grade rise’ which is determined by time in the job.
I was interested also to see it’s possible to earn up to £104k as a nurse though I suspect that’s some sort of top management post?
dmahon said:
Are people for real after the massive supposed support for the voluntary annihilation of our own economy?
For anyone who supported lockdowns then complains about a 1% pay rise, how about take a hike!
That said, it’s hilarious how we can print £400 billion then plead poverty over a 1% pay rise. Still don’t think they should get it though.
Give over... The private sector is likely to see double that in 21. For anyone who supported lockdowns then complains about a 1% pay rise, how about take a hike!
That said, it’s hilarious how we can print £400 billion then plead poverty over a 1% pay rise. Still don’t think they should get it though.
Edited by dmahon on Friday 5th March 19:06
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/p...
And as someone whose private sector taxes funded the banking sector bail outs only to see huge salary increases in the same sector I have no issue with inflation matching NHS pay rises.
So many sides to all the comments but the £60bn give or take a few bill has to come from somewhere.
Controversial to some but when you sign up to be a nurse I think the job description may mention caring for very sick people.
Did they make a sterling effort ? Yea, like many in front line public service do every day, still shocked police were not prioritised for the vaccine given the amount of close encounters they have to face with the average d
head.
I’m not being a grinch but lockdown cost me around £25k but seeing’s I’m saintly I raised nearly £500 for my local foodbank as obviously some are really struggling and would love to have a job let alone a small pay rise
Controversial to some but when you sign up to be a nurse I think the job description may mention caring for very sick people.
Did they make a sterling effort ? Yea, like many in front line public service do every day, still shocked police were not prioritised for the vaccine given the amount of close encounters they have to face with the average d
head.I’m not being a grinch but lockdown cost me around £25k but seeing’s I’m saintly I raised nearly £500 for my local foodbank as obviously some are really struggling and would love to have a job let alone a small pay rise
The problem for those of us (including me) that believe the overall package to be sufficiently generous is that there remain significant staff shortages/infilled vacancies. I can’t see that situation fixing itself particularly seamlessly either as there are obvious reasons why current, particularly the more experienced staff, might consider that “enough is enough” and leave.
I don't believe a word of this story, and think it's smoke and mirrors from this duplicitous govt.
My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the fking stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.
My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the f
king stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.I think it’s a disgrace; 1% is pretty generous under the circumstances and far above what most of the private sector will get...if they even keep their jobs.
Asking the tax payer for a 12.5% rise under these circumstances is repugnant. Yes I’m sure it was very tough for many (but not all...) NHS workers, but that’s the job. Despite the hardship, they have still had guaranteed employment, great pensions, discounts, etc.
Paying for Covid is going to hurt everyone in society...we ALL have to pay our share. A 1% raise is probably fair and sensible...asking for 12.5% is most definitely not!
No more clapping from me
Asking the tax payer for a 12.5% rise under these circumstances is repugnant. Yes I’m sure it was very tough for many (but not all...) NHS workers, but that’s the job. Despite the hardship, they have still had guaranteed employment, great pensions, discounts, etc.
Paying for Covid is going to hurt everyone in society...we ALL have to pay our share. A 1% raise is probably fair and sensible...asking for 12.5% is most definitely not!
No more clapping from me
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't believe a word of this story, and think it's smoke and mirrors from this duplicitous govt.
My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the fking stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.
Until next year, where they'll demand another 3-4%My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the f
king stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.People on here don’t understand union negotiations.
Yes, they’re publicly asking for 12.5% but they know, as their members know, that they’ll get nowhere near that amount but if they asked for, say, 2% to then the government would think they’ve been too generous in their opening offer of 1% thinking they could’ve got away with offering less.
Yes, they are trading on public sentiment but as anyone whose negotiated a pay rise, you start high and hope to meet in a mutually agreed middle ground.
I hope those criticising those nurses, doctors, etc weren’t out there a few months back clapping like a seal on acid about how proud they are of the NHS with their little home drawn rainbows in their windows. Not that would have been hypocritical in the slightest...
Yes, they’re publicly asking for 12.5% but they know, as their members know, that they’ll get nowhere near that amount but if they asked for, say, 2% to then the government would think they’ve been too generous in their opening offer of 1% thinking they could’ve got away with offering less.
Yes, they are trading on public sentiment but as anyone whose negotiated a pay rise, you start high and hope to meet in a mutually agreed middle ground.
I hope those criticising those nurses, doctors, etc weren’t out there a few months back clapping like a seal on acid about how proud they are of the NHS with their little home drawn rainbows in their windows. Not that would have been hypocritical in the slightest...
Edited by valiant on Friday 5th March 22:40
A Winner Is You said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't believe a word of this story, and think it's smoke and mirrors from this duplicitous govt.
My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the fking stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.
Until next year, where they'll demand another 3-4%My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the f
king stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.k about next year or next month. Be popular now, that's his mantra. Say whatever you need to say, even if it's bks. Just be popular. It's probably breaking his heart that he's got to be unpopular for a week or 2 until they make the higher offer. But so long as he ends up popular, he'll do it. TwigtheWonderkid said:
A Winner Is You said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't believe a word of this story, and think it's smoke and mirrors from this duplicitous govt.
My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the fking stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.
Until next year, where they'll demand another 3-4%My theory: they've set aside 3 or 4%, but if they give it straight off, people will say it's not nearly enough. NHS workers, unions and the public will be up in arms. So tell them they are getting 1%, you've now lit the blue touch paper and can stand well back. Wait for the uproar, give it a few weeks, then announce how you're the listening govt, the people have spoken, and you've gone away, looked at it again, and have managed to re jig the finances and can now offer them 3%.
The public love it, isn't Boris wonderful, he's one of us, a man of the people. The NHS workers and unions still aren't happy, but they suck it up and paint it as a victory, because they know they won't have public support if they don't.
Everyone wins. The govt give no more than they were going to give in the first place and are more popular. NHS get to say how they took on the govt and won, and the f
king stupid public all think they've done their bit for the NHS by complaining so loudly the govt had to listen.k about next year or next month. Be popular now, that's his mantra. Say whatever you need to say, even if it's bks. Just be popular. It's probably breaking his heart that he's got to be unpopular for a week or 2 until they make the higher offer. But so long as he ends up popular, he'll do it. Douglas Quaid said:
I don’t understand why they’re complaining. Most of the year they’ve been quiet. They have guaranteed income. Millions of people have lost their jobs, NHS staff should count themselves lucky they have managed to keep theirs in my opinion.
Agreed. And yet, some Labour loon on 5 Live earlier was demanding a pay rise for the entre public sector. Tony Livesey kept asking her how much she would give them but she refused to say.I think the Conservative government have been shockingly inept in their handling of covid. I dread to think how much worse it might have been under Corbyn/Starmer/McDonnell. "12.5%? Yeah, go on then! Anyone else? As long as it destroys Capitalism, help yourself comrade!"
Johnnytheboy said:
Times Radio this am had someone from the RCN on who got quite snotty when asked where the money for a bigger pay rise was meant to come from.
Maybe from the £15bn extra given to test and trace on top of the £22bn already allocated perhaps?Almost the entire defence budget spent on a program that has produced questionable results. But hey, they finally found the person who brought in the Brazilian variant of the virus in. Only took them five days...
Disclaimer: I'm NHS.
I was expecting 0% to mirror other public sector workers, so 1% was better than I was expecting.
For those saying you get annual pay increases irrespective of competence isn't correct anymore, increments are every two years at least and are tied to your appraisal i.e. they are again linked to performance/meeting targets. This was part of the previous three year pay deal. If you are at the top of the band then this 1% is your only raise.
12.5% is where negotiations begin. 4-5 years ago the unions made a song a dance about 3% (IIRC) and settled on 1%. We may have even gone on strike for that one. I think they were a bit embarrassed tbh (I crossed the picket line) hence jumping in at 12.5%, to bring wages up to where they 'should be' adjusted from inflation. Then they can be negotiated down from there.
However, I don't think now is the right time to be asking for such a pay rise. While realistically any rise will be no more than 1.5% after months of painful negotiation, the headline of asking for 12.5% will turn the public against NHS staff, even at this time where there is more sympathy than usual. Even referencing MPs pay rises in recent years won't work imo.
Ultimately caring for patients with COVID is part of the job, just like treating patients with flu, norovirus, c.diff, MRSA, etc.
Lots of people are facing at best, pay freezes, and at worst, lost jobs, so if we're 'in this together', then perhaps we should be with pay, too.
If it was up to me I would take the 1% quietly. And then question why details of PPE contracts still haven't been released when the government has been told it is acting illegally.
I was expecting 0% to mirror other public sector workers, so 1% was better than I was expecting.
For those saying you get annual pay increases irrespective of competence isn't correct anymore, increments are every two years at least and are tied to your appraisal i.e. they are again linked to performance/meeting targets. This was part of the previous three year pay deal. If you are at the top of the band then this 1% is your only raise.
12.5% is where negotiations begin. 4-5 years ago the unions made a song a dance about 3% (IIRC) and settled on 1%. We may have even gone on strike for that one. I think they were a bit embarrassed tbh (I crossed the picket line) hence jumping in at 12.5%, to bring wages up to where they 'should be' adjusted from inflation. Then they can be negotiated down from there.
However, I don't think now is the right time to be asking for such a pay rise. While realistically any rise will be no more than 1.5% after months of painful negotiation, the headline of asking for 12.5% will turn the public against NHS staff, even at this time where there is more sympathy than usual. Even referencing MPs pay rises in recent years won't work imo.
Ultimately caring for patients with COVID is part of the job, just like treating patients with flu, norovirus, c.diff, MRSA, etc.
Lots of people are facing at best, pay freezes, and at worst, lost jobs, so if we're 'in this together', then perhaps we should be with pay, too.
If it was up to me I would take the 1% quietly. And then question why details of PPE contracts still haven't been released when the government has been told it is acting illegally.
youngsyr said:
I think what angers me most about it, is the weasel-ness of it; 1% is the minimum amount that could even be put forward as a "pay rise".
Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
You do know inflation is 0.7% right?Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
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