NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
dave_s13 said:
Quisling said:
Finding it hard to care to be honest
I think MANY would love a guaranteed job with a guaranteed pay rise every year
NHS pay structure doesn't work like that.I think MANY would love a guaranteed job with a guaranteed pay rise every year
Once you get to top of band 5 your increments stop until you can find a band 6 job to apply for and get, that if one comes up and you want the extra responsibility. Then when you get to top of band 6 you'll only progress to 7 if a job comes up, and you get it. Then band 7 yearly pay increment is zero for the first 3 yrs, then in yr 4 and 5 you get a small bump. Similar happens at band 8 and above.
Basically, starting from the bottom you get a decent rise every year but it quickly slows to nil if you're not prepared to upskill or change roles. And not all have the aptitude and desire to do that.
Edited by dave_s13 on Friday 5th March 20:10
NextSlidePlease said:
For those who worked on the "front line" they deserve a nice bonus for the physical but mostly mental torment they have been subjected to. You couldn't pay me enough to work on the covid and intensive care wards during this s
t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.
I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
My other half works in the NHS - a low band too.
Don't think that band hopping is a method for all.
On the one hand I fully agree that we can't create economic havoc and start making large awards to the public sector.
Personally, in private industry land, I had a pay freeze last year - and TBH was happy with that given all the redundancies and furlough schemes going on.
Many in the public sector seem not to get the link between economic health and pay.
All of that said, gets blown out of the water by one mention of Dildo Harding and her magic test and trace printing machine. People see the cronyism, incompetence and downright corruption in govt, so I don't blame them for wanting to push the envelope.
Wonder how much MP's salaries will rise this year, and what role Ms Harding will be promoted to next time around.
Don't think that band hopping is a method for all.
On the one hand I fully agree that we can't create economic havoc and start making large awards to the public sector.
Personally, in private industry land, I had a pay freeze last year - and TBH was happy with that given all the redundancies and furlough schemes going on.
Many in the public sector seem not to get the link between economic health and pay.
All of that said, gets blown out of the water by one mention of Dildo Harding and her magic test and trace printing machine. People see the cronyism, incompetence and downright corruption in govt, so I don't blame them for wanting to push the envelope.
Wonder how much MP's salaries will rise this year, and what role Ms Harding will be promoted to next time around.
youngsyr said:
Murmurs from a couple of nursing unions that strike action could be a possibility following a 1% pay rise being announced and reported by BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
What have they ‘been through’?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
A very large percentage of NHS staff have been sat at home for months on full pay. Nice work if you can get it......
Sierra Nevada said:
What happened to the £350m a week brexit dividend? Surely that's enough to pay for the NHS pay rise many times over.
My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
Bearing in mind that in order to pay today's wages we're borrowing from our childrens future already, what other services would you cut in order to provide it?My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
(Not saying I disagree about deserving recognition btw, or recruitment, or even working hard. It's not nice to say, but unfortunately how hard people work often doesn't reflect what they get paid)
Edited by Previous on Saturday 6th March 00:50
Brainpox said:
Disclaimer: I'm NHS.
I was expecting 0% to mirror other public sector workers, so 1% was better than I was expecting.
For those saying you get annual pay increases irrespective of competence isn't correct anymore, increments are every two years at least and are tied to your appraisal i.e. they are again linked to performance/meeting targets. This was part of the previous three year pay deal. If you are at the top of the band then this 1% is your only raise.
12.5% is where negotiations begin. 4-5 years ago the unions made a song a dance about 3% (IIRC) and settled on 1%. We may have even gone on strike for that one. I think they were a bit embarrassed tbh (I crossed the picket line) hence jumping in at 12.5%, to bring wages up to where they 'should be' adjusted from inflation. Then they can be negotiated down from there.
However, I don't think now is the right time to be asking for such a pay rise. While realistically any rise will be no more than 1.5% after months of painful negotiation, the headline of asking for 12.5% will turn the public against NHS staff, even at this time where there is more sympathy than usual. Even referencing MPs pay rises in recent years won't work imo.
Ultimately caring for patients with COVID is part of the job, just like treating patients with flu, norovirus, c.diff, MRSA, etc.
Lots of people are facing at best, pay freezes, and at worst, lost jobs, so if we're 'in this together', then perhaps we should be with pay, too.
If it was up to me I would take the 1% quietly. And then question why details of PPE contracts still haven't been released when the government has been told it is acting illegally.
Very well said.I was expecting 0% to mirror other public sector workers, so 1% was better than I was expecting.
For those saying you get annual pay increases irrespective of competence isn't correct anymore, increments are every two years at least and are tied to your appraisal i.e. they are again linked to performance/meeting targets. This was part of the previous three year pay deal. If you are at the top of the band then this 1% is your only raise.
12.5% is where negotiations begin. 4-5 years ago the unions made a song a dance about 3% (IIRC) and settled on 1%. We may have even gone on strike for that one. I think they were a bit embarrassed tbh (I crossed the picket line) hence jumping in at 12.5%, to bring wages up to where they 'should be' adjusted from inflation. Then they can be negotiated down from there.
However, I don't think now is the right time to be asking for such a pay rise. While realistically any rise will be no more than 1.5% after months of painful negotiation, the headline of asking for 12.5% will turn the public against NHS staff, even at this time where there is more sympathy than usual. Even referencing MPs pay rises in recent years won't work imo.
Ultimately caring for patients with COVID is part of the job, just like treating patients with flu, norovirus, c.diff, MRSA, etc.
Lots of people are facing at best, pay freezes, and at worst, lost jobs, so if we're 'in this together', then perhaps we should be with pay, too.
If it was up to me I would take the 1% quietly. And then question why details of PPE contracts still haven't been released when the government has been told it is acting illegally.
Downward said:
NextSlidePlease said:
For those who worked on the "front line" they deserve a nice bonus for the physical but mostly mental torment they have been subjected to. You couldn't pay me enough to work on the covid and intensive care wards during this st. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.
I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They've all risked their lives and 230 have even lost them to care for a huge number of people way beyond any natural disaster in living memory. 130,000 odd thousand people have been killed in case some need reminding.
And it's not just front line workers that have been affected, many have been pulled out of non-front line roles to plug the gaps.
Still, they should be thankful they've got a job and a small number had a cushy time and some people in the private sector have lost their jobs, so the NHS should be grateful for a weekly clap and no more, eh?!
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 02:11
I'm ready for a traditional PH slating here as I work in the public sector for a Govt agency.
I work in a technical role in a specialist industry. Often auditing companies with large turnovers and also dealing with industry related emergency response. I'm paid to work 37 hrs a week, I work a lot more. It's a tough, demanding job.
In 2005 I joined at 35 yrs old on £22.5k salary now in 2021 in the same role(but regularly working way above grade) I'm on £26.4k.
What should that be with inflation? You tell me.
I think the last 10 years have seen a £4k pay rise and now it's been made impossible to rise up through the pay scale which I cannot see other than a breach of contract.
There are some bloody good people that I work with but also a lot that are less so, maybe my tolerance levels are less than they were but unfortunately the latter are on the increase.
No where near as bad as the Local Authority though. They are abysmal here.
I work in a technical role in a specialist industry. Often auditing companies with large turnovers and also dealing with industry related emergency response. I'm paid to work 37 hrs a week, I work a lot more. It's a tough, demanding job.
In 2005 I joined at 35 yrs old on £22.5k salary now in 2021 in the same role(but regularly working way above grade) I'm on £26.4k.
What should that be with inflation? You tell me.
I think the last 10 years have seen a £4k pay rise and now it's been made impossible to rise up through the pay scale which I cannot see other than a breach of contract.
There are some bloody good people that I work with but also a lot that are less so, maybe my tolerance levels are less than they were but unfortunately the latter are on the increase.
No where near as bad as the Local Authority though. They are abysmal here.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Give over... The private sector is likely to see double that in 21.
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/p...
And as someone whose private sector taxes funded the banking sector bail outs only to see huge salary increases in the same sector I have no issue with inflation matching NHS pay rises.
The current rate of inflation is 0.9% so 1% is a real terms pay rise. https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/p...
And as someone whose private sector taxes funded the banking sector bail outs only to see huge salary increases in the same sector I have no issue with inflation matching NHS pay rises.
Andeh1 said:
Genuine question, but there has been a massive drop in everything but covid, medical wise, .....so averaged out, are nurses & doctors going above & beyond their normal duties?
My understanding is that they always went beyond the call of duty. Except in Southport. It's why my wife left nursing in 1993 and never went back.
And have been underpaid forever.
valiant said:
Maybe from the £15bn extra given to test and trace on top of the £22bn already allocated perhaps?
Almost the entire defence budget spent on a program that has produced questionable results. But hey, they finally found the person who brought in the Brazilian variant of the virus in. Only took them five days...
As pointed out on the other thread. The fact that the government has squandered money on things like lockdown when it wasn't needed, and T&T, doesn't mean we can suddenly afford spending commitments decades into the future (bearing in mind any pay rise will feed through into the pension and could still be being paid 80 years from now), it just means we are broke and can afford less long term spending commitments. Almost the entire defence budget spent on a program that has produced questionable results. But hey, they finally found the person who brought in the Brazilian variant of the virus in. Only took them five days...
Government finances are very precarious and even just a 1% rise in interest rates would cost an extra £25bn a year in debt service costs.
gts.981 said:
What have they ‘been through’?
A very large percentage of NHS staff have been sat at home for months on full pay. Nice work if you can get it......
No they haven’t. I don’t know of a single NHS employee that has even been able to take their full holiday entitlement. Most, including non clinical staff, have been going in, doing things outside their normal role, working long hours, without a thought. Those that have been working their normal roles have been waiting and preparing for the requirement to take on a major incident but been working as normal. Yes, some of them have had reduced workloads because people have been avoiding going to the doctors or the hospital, but they have still been working.A very large percentage of NHS staff have been sat at home for months on full pay. Nice work if you can get it......
Downward said:
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They need to be taxed on the BIK for staying in hotels. fDon’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
kers living it up while the rest of us bear the brunt of this stJust my take on things, FWIW -
I'm a band 5 NHS staff nurse, working in mental health (for 15 + yrs now).
So not 'front line', though I have had to work with covid positive patients.
And we have had an outbreak among staff - probably 50pc or so of my colleagues have had covid.
But then so has the local chicken factory, supermarket etc, part of working in a pandemic I suppose.
Personally, I can't get myself wound up/offended by the 1pc pay offer - as mentioned, the rest of the public sector is getting nothing and many people in the country will be losing their jobs.
I'm thankful I kind of fell into this secure profession many years ago. I'm not a member of any nursing union, so 'striking' is out of the question, and I wouldn't even if I was a member.
Why am I not worried about pay?
-Well, I'm top of my band anyway so the basic pay is okay.
-I work mainly nights so my pay is pretty much always 'time and a third' (or more for Sundays/bank holidays).
-I can work as many 'bank' shifts as I want - just been sorting my 'bank' for June - any night shift I want is available - think I picked up 5 shifts in the end which will be worth about £1200 extra to me (after tax).
-But I have a wife who works, and child care responsibilities plus a life to live, so I can't be at work all the time.
-And of course, we've been locked down for the last year, nowhere much to spend our money, so all the 'bank' I've done plus plenty of my basic salary has been accumulating in my bank account.
-when my pay arrives at the end of this month, I know in the last financial year I will have been paid around £51k, and I really haven't stretched myself that much - probably averaging 2 or 3 extra shifts per month.
So when I read of outraged nurses struggling to make ends meet, having to use food banks etc.etc., demanding a fair wage, I really can't relate to that.
Anyway, I'll continue to watch this story with interest, see how it plays out, but I can't help but think there's a very vocal minority, easily offended, banging their drums, demanding 'fair' pay etc. While the majority of nurses like me are sitting here quite comfortably and very grateful for what we have.
I'm a band 5 NHS staff nurse, working in mental health (for 15 + yrs now).
So not 'front line', though I have had to work with covid positive patients.
And we have had an outbreak among staff - probably 50pc or so of my colleagues have had covid.
But then so has the local chicken factory, supermarket etc, part of working in a pandemic I suppose.
Personally, I can't get myself wound up/offended by the 1pc pay offer - as mentioned, the rest of the public sector is getting nothing and many people in the country will be losing their jobs.
I'm thankful I kind of fell into this secure profession many years ago. I'm not a member of any nursing union, so 'striking' is out of the question, and I wouldn't even if I was a member.
Why am I not worried about pay?
-Well, I'm top of my band anyway so the basic pay is okay.
-I work mainly nights so my pay is pretty much always 'time and a third' (or more for Sundays/bank holidays).
-I can work as many 'bank' shifts as I want - just been sorting my 'bank' for June - any night shift I want is available - think I picked up 5 shifts in the end which will be worth about £1200 extra to me (after tax).
-But I have a wife who works, and child care responsibilities plus a life to live, so I can't be at work all the time.
-And of course, we've been locked down for the last year, nowhere much to spend our money, so all the 'bank' I've done plus plenty of my basic salary has been accumulating in my bank account.
-when my pay arrives at the end of this month, I know in the last financial year I will have been paid around £51k, and I really haven't stretched myself that much - probably averaging 2 or 3 extra shifts per month.
So when I read of outraged nurses struggling to make ends meet, having to use food banks etc.etc., demanding a fair wage, I really can't relate to that.
Anyway, I'll continue to watch this story with interest, see how it plays out, but I can't help but think there's a very vocal minority, easily offended, banging their drums, demanding 'fair' pay etc. While the majority of nurses like me are sitting here quite comfortably and very grateful for what we have.
MrJuice said:
Downward said:
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They need to be taxed on the BIK for staying in hotels. fDon’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
kers living it up while the rest of us bear the brunt of this stBut my daughter was also allowed free parking so she didn't have to park in a housing estate 1/2 mile away and walk back to her car in the dark. I'd tax her on.that.
JagLover said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Give over... The private sector is likely to see double that in 21.
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/p...
And as someone whose private sector taxes funded the banking sector bail outs only to see huge salary increases in the same sector I have no issue with inflation matching NHS pay rises.
The current rate of inflation is 0.9% so 1% is a real terms pay rise. https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/p...
And as someone whose private sector taxes funded the banking sector bail outs only to see huge salary increases in the same sector I have no issue with inflation matching NHS pay rises.
My wife is NHS, she's been working 14-15 hour days for the last twelve months now, and also working at the weekend. This is far from unusaul in the NHS at moment. She's contracted for 37 hours.
Perhaps they should all just put in an overtime claim instead or work the hours they're paid for?
The general theme in the UK is that we're all in it together when there needs to some spending reductions, but in an economic boom the private sectors simply forgets that pact.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
And private sector pay rises are significantly more than that... Internationally 4.4 percent average. And within the UK most sectors are way above 1 percent.
Not sure the relevance of international pay rises?. As for the UK we will wait and see where pay rises in the private sector for 2021 end up. Many private sector employers had a pay freeze in 2020 and many cut pay.
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