Derek Chauvin Trial

[N7GTX]

coppernorks said:

Back to Chauvin, might have been mentioned before, but I believe the jury
reaching their decisions in less than 24 hours is a factor pertinent to sentencing and/or plea deal.

Not quite sure how that works, but as we all know varying state Justice systems
are certainly not hamstrung by simplicity and user friendliness.

I don't know how that works but I did post a long time ago how DC agreed to let the judge sentence him without the jury having a say on the harshness of it due to aggravating features such as him being a cop, the length of the incident and so on. Nelson made his statement then the judge asked DC if it was his decision; had he been pressured and stuff like that. DC calmly and respectfully said it was his decision so he has thrown himself at the mercy of the judge. Going by the speed of the jury's decision that may have been a wise move.

I'm sure this will be a deterrent sentence so I'm expecting 20 years minimum. I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together and with 23 hours a day locked in his cell, he wont have much else to fill his time.

[anonymous-user]

N7GTX said:

I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

However, he was convicted on murder 2 (40 years), murder 3 (25 years) and manslaughter 2 (IIRC, around 15 years). So even if he manages to suppress the most serious conviction on some argument around "intent" he'll still be spending a good length of time in jail.

[Touring442]

Trackdayer said:

What's a more reliable source on US racism?

A black American woman like Candace Owens, or a bunch of horrid, middle-class Londoners writing for the Guardian?

I know who I'll believe.

Or someone on the internet who only leaves his PC to wash and eat!

[N7GTX]

rockin said:

N7GTX said:

I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

However, he was convicted on murder 2 (40 years), murder 3 (25 years) and manslaughter 2 (IIRC, around 15 years). So even if he manages to suppress the most serious conviction on some argument around "intent" he'll still be spending a good length of time in jail.

The appeals process seems to take a long time in the U.S. so he best get used to forgetting his future. If he was given, say, 40 years, can he get out earlier, parole or good behaviour or something, or is it a mandatory 40 and that's it?

I can't imagine what that would be like to face made doubly worse by the nature of the crime and his previous occupation. Permanent fear probably.

[Superleg48]

N7GTX said:

rockin said:

N7GTX said:

I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

However, he was convicted on murder 2 (40 years), murder 3 (25 years) and manslaughter 2 (IIRC, around 15 years). So even if he manages to suppress the most serious conviction on some argument around "intent" he'll still be spending a good length of time in jail.

The appeals process seems to take a long time in the U.S. so he best get used to forgetting his future. If he was given, say, 40 years, can he get out earlier, parole or good behaviour or something, or is it a mandatory 40 and that's it?

I can't imagine what that would be like to face made doubly worse by the nature of the crime and his previous occupation. Permanent fear probably.

Those terms are MAXIMUM terms. Also, they will most likely run concurrently. My money is on 20-25 years plus he will appeal on trial by media ticket, helped enormously by that idiot of a Congresswoman who opened her mouth just before deliberations began. This came so close to a mistrial on a number of occasions. We watched the whole trial on Court TV, including the run up with Jury selection etc.

He is guilty, the evidence is overwhelming, but circumstances may yet enable him to overturn the verdict as at least unsafe.

[FazerBoy]

N7GTX said:

I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together and with 23 hours a day locked in his cell, he wont have much else to fill his time.

Oh, I think it will take him a good many years to read through the notes he made throughout the trial.

I watched most of it and the miserable egotistic murderer was scribbling away virtually all the time - even when nothing was happening...

[N7GTX]

FazerBoy said:

N7GTX said:

I imagine DC will be putting some form of appeal together and with 23 hours a day locked in his cell, he wont have much else to fill his time.

Oh, I think it will take him a good many years to read through the notes he made throughout the trial.

I watched most of it and the miserable egotistic murderer was scribbling away virtually all the time - even when nothing was happening...

That baffled me why he was writing so much when his defence team were doing it anyway. Unless it was to give him something to do instead of staring at the jury.

[N7GTX]

Superleg48 said:

Those terms are MAXIMUM terms. Also, they will most likely run concurrently. My money is on 20-25 years plus he will appeal on trial by media ticket, helped enormously by that idiot of a Congresswoman who opened her mouth just before deliberations began. This came so close to a mistrial on a number of occasions. We watched the whole trial on Court TV, including the run up with Jury selection etc.

He is guilty, the evidence is overwhelming, but circumstances may yet enable him to overturn the verdict as at least unsafe.

Yes, that Congresswoman..... If they succeed in a mistrial how on earth will they get a new jury that has not heard 'that woman' or the President both saying he's guilty before the verdict.

[carinaman]

Should more have been made about them working together doing security at the same restaurant?:

https://www.capitalxtra.com/news/george-floyd-deat...

Regarding systemic racism and BLM is that BBC interview with a former US Cop relevant to the discussion? Seems there's already grounds for an appeal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wNpsPEso

[anonymous-user]

N7GTX said:

Superleg48 said:

Those terms are MAXIMUM terms. Also, they will most likely run concurrently. My money is on 20-25 years plus he will appeal on trial by media ticket, helped enormously by that idiot of a Congresswoman who opened her mouth just before deliberations began. This came so close to a mistrial on a number of occasions. We watched the whole trial on Court TV, including the run up with Jury selection etc.

He is guilty, the evidence is overwhelming, but circumstances may yet enable him to overturn the verdict as at least unsafe.

Yes, that Congresswoman..... If they succeed in a mistrial how on earth will they get a new jury that has not heard 'that woman' or the President both saying he's guilty before the verdict.

I don’t think that’s too much of an issue given they’ll likely have seen coverage of the actual trial and know the jury reached a guilty verdict on all charges.

[F1GTRUeno]

stitched said:

This subject annoys the hell out of me.
I don't have any black friends or work mates.
I don't have any Asian friends or work mates.
I don't have any eastern european friends or work mates.
I don't have any white, japanese or chinese friends or work mates.
I just have friends and workmates.
I agree that people are given less opportunity if they are from a different background than the indiginous people.
I have never done that, but recognise it is a problem, however bringing it up all the time is a negative force on equality.

What do you do when one of said friends reports that they’ve been racially abused? Just tell them they’re ‘a person’ and tell them to get on with it?

[andymadmak]

F1GTRUeno said:

stitched said:

This subject annoys the hell out of me.
I don't have any black friends or work mates.
I don't have any Asian friends or work mates.
I don't have any eastern european friends or work mates.
I don't have any white, japanese or chinese friends or work mates.
I just have friends and workmates.
I agree that people are given less opportunity if they are from a different background than the indiginous people.
I have never done that, but recognise it is a problem, however bringing it up all the time is a negative force on equality.

What do you do when one of said friends reports that they’ve been racially abused? Just tell them they’re ‘a person’ and tell them to get on with it?

I think you missed the point he was making.

[thewarlock]

andymadmak said:

I think you missed the point he was making.

What do you think his point was please?

To me it reads an awful lot like "I'm not racist, but I agree it's a problem. But let's not talk about it"

[NDA]

thewarlock said:

andymadmak said:

I think you missed the point he was making.

What do you think his point was please?

To me it reads an awful lot like "I'm not racist, but I agree it's a problem. But let's not talk about it"

The point might have been that racism starts out by labelling people by their colour. A view I happen to share.

[thewarlock]

NDA said:

thewarlock said:

andymadmak said:

I think you missed the point he was making.

What do you think his point was please?

To me it reads an awful lot like "I'm not racist, but I agree it's a problem. But let's not talk about it"

The point might have been that racism starts out by labelling people by their colour. A view I happen to share.

The solution is not to acknowledge it, then ignore it, though.

That's not how change occurs.

[NDA]

thewarlock said:

The solution is not to acknowledge it, then ignore it, though.

That's not how change occurs.

I partly agree. I certainly wouldn't ignore racism, but equally I wouldn't try to find racism in everything we do.

I was brought up to ignore the colour of someone's skin - it's irrelevant. I brought my two (now grown up) children to do the same. But I agree that it would be wrong to ignore the subject, particularly when it genuinely happens.

[Penelope Stopit]

One can only imagine what life is like being held back because of the colour of ones skin unless experiencing it

Having been in a situation where many persons of a colour other than white showed hatred towards those that were white due to them earning far less money than those white persons for their work, came to the conclusion that this world that we live in is one big mess

Hoping that the Derek Chauvin Trial is the start of better things to come

Amen

[Armchair Expert]

carinaman said:

Regarding systemic racism and BLM is that BBC interview with a former US Cop relevant to the discussion? Seems there's already grounds for an appeal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wNpsPEso

The officers that were involved in Tony Tempo death are still in their jobs.

Wonder how much compensation his family have received!

[rscott]

Armchair Expert said:

carinaman said:

Regarding systemic racism and BLM is that BBC interview with a former US Cop relevant to the discussion? Seems there's already grounds for an appeal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wNpsPEso

The officers that were involved in Tony Tempo death are still in their jobs.

Wonder how much compensation his family have received!

Case was thrown out because the judge decided they had qualified immunity.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/ne...

[Slaav]

Penelope Stopit said:

One can only imagine what life is like being held back because of the colour of ones skin unless experiencing it

Having been in a situation where many persons of a colour other than white showed hatred towards those that were white due to them earning far less money than those white persons for their work, came to the conclusion that this world that we live in is one big mess

Hoping that the Derek Chauvin Trial is the start of better things to come

Amen

Firstly I must state that in no way whatsoever is the following anecdote trying to lessen or belittle the issues many races, colours, creeds etc face regularly and on occasion relentlessly!!

We managed to escape down to the South of France last Aug/Sept during relaxed Covid restrictions. On returning to UK via car/Eurotunnel, we still had 14 days quarantine so all still very ‘real’.

On the way back up through Champagne where we stayed overnight, four of us - two middle aged white couples - we had dinner. Packed restaurant as not everywhere was open. After a while, a French couple were seated beside us. I was conscious they moved/shuffled their table a bit further away from us. The were the last table by the very wide walkway. The tables were not rammed on top of each other! I ignored it but then a little while later, they upped and moved elsewhere in the restaurant and right into the middle, surrounded by others.

Yep! The point is they moved because we were English/British. We assumed due to being tourists and Covid concerns although they moved into a more crowded area.

At the end of our meal, my wife twigged what had happened and we asked the waiter - he embarrassingly confirmed our thoughts/fears. My Mrs was furious. She wanted to find them as she was so upset and angry at their ‘judging us’. They had already left. Waiter was very apologetic but to this day, it upsets the wife that people made assumptions and wanted to get away from us as we were Brits.

I know it isn’t comparable - by several orders of magnitude but the point is that I really cannot imagine what it must be like being treated ‘differently’ and being judged by others. The fact that we are/were fastidious about hygiene and cleanliness isn’t relevant. ‘She’ heard our accents and moved. It left a bad taste and as above, it still upsets the wife.

I cannot ever imagine what it must be like to constantly perceive racism, stereotyping, profiling etc. I try to empathise (cannot imagine what it is truly like) and behave accordingly. It must be absolutely awful. It must wear you/one down. Exhausting.

If being on the receiving end of even occasional bias or negative behaviour leads to an ‘over sensitive’ response or as some call it an ‘overreaction’, I totally understand it and don’t bat an eyelid. I am concerned about massive overreaction and certain Politicising of systemic issues but I reckon the vast majority of people who have experienced negative profiling, racism and bigoted behaviour pretty much have a ‘free pass’ to get pissed off with it.

It must be awful and people who shrug, laugh it off or belittle the issues are as abhorrent as the acts themselves.

I also believe unconscious bias does exist unfortunately. It shouldn’t but does IMO.

As before, I cannot possibly imagine how awful it must be to be on the receiving end of such abhorrent treatment/behaviour - even if hopefully rare these days.....

What has this to do with DC? Lots. I think he was 100% guilty of the middle charge from what I saw, watched personally and have read. He may manage to appeal the Murder charge (and the others) but he does seem to have killed George Floyd.

Was it racist? Possibly. Unconscious bias and maybe even contempt for a Criminal - highly likely. Exacerbated by GF being black - unfortunately quite possible but that wasn’t on trial nor did it play any major part INSIDE the courtroom.

DC seems to have been a poor excuse for a Police Officer. As a Veteran officer, he is unfortunately likely to have some racial bias; unconscious or otherwise. Should it be the main issue on this thread? I don’t think so. Should it be discussed openly? Definitely!