Derek Chauvin Trial
Discussion
NY times ran an opinion piece last June, by Dr. Hart is a neuroscientist who specializes in how humans respond to psychoactive drugs.
The argument that drugs were responsible for Mr. Floyd’s death could well be employed by Mr. Chauvin’s lawyers and supporters. But it doesn’t hold up. My analysis of Mr. Floyd’s toxicology report is that drugs could not have contributed to his death. Nor could they have made him “crazed.” In other words, drugs didn’t make him act so violently that lethal force was necessary nor did it cause some fatal medical condition.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-...
The argument that drugs were responsible for Mr. Floyd’s death could well be employed by Mr. Chauvin’s lawyers and supporters. But it doesn’t hold up. My analysis of Mr. Floyd’s toxicology report is that drugs could not have contributed to his death. Nor could they have made him “crazed.” In other words, drugs didn’t make him act so violently that lethal force was necessary nor did it cause some fatal medical condition.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-...
GregK2 said:
George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?
I hear what you're saying, but he didn't kneel on his own neck for 9 minutes. That was Officer Chauvin. Do you feel he should take responsibility for his own actions?
Footage from when George Floyd was arrested in 2019. It looks very familiar, he tries to eat his drugs and freaks out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7reJpf-23o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7reJpf-23o
thewarlock said:
GregK2 said:
George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?
I hear what you're saying, but he didn't kneel on his own neck for 9 minutes. That was Officer Chauvin. Do you feel he should take responsibility for his own actions?
thewarlock said:
GregK2 said:
George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?
I hear what you're saying, but he didn't kneel on his own neck for 9 minutes. That was Officer Chauvin. Do you feel he should take responsibility for his own actions?
I'll be honest I don't know much (apart from the standard news info) about the case and situation.
Is it possible for autopsies to show definitive cause of death, ie suffocation vs heart attack, or is it just what has happened, so lack of air could lead to heart attack.
Very interesting to see how this plays out.
Is it possible for autopsies to show definitive cause of death, ie suffocation vs heart attack, or is it just what has happened, so lack of air could lead to heart attack.
Very interesting to see how this plays out.
g4ry13 said:
The MMA guy said it was a blood choke on Floyd. But he also said earlier when a blood choke is used in the octagon people go out in seconds.
Floyd clearly didn't go unconscious within seconds so it wasn't a blood choke.
He said a blood choke can be applied only to one side, this is incorrect. He also said that the a choke was called a Kimura when demonstrating to the court Floyd clearly didn't go unconscious within seconds so it wasn't a blood choke.
Your choke must really suck if it takes 9 minutes for your opponent to go out. GregK2 said:
thewarlock said:
GregK2 said:
George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?
I hear what you're saying, but he didn't kneel on his own neck for 9 minutes. That was Officer Chauvin. Do you feel he should take responsibility for his own actions?
He also said he couldn't breathe while he was sitting in his own car and officers asked him to come out of, and said it several times before he was on the ground. A criminal with a violent past high as a kite on a cocktail of drugs failing to comply with simple instructions.
Do you think he had the right and ability to change his mind - to make the better choice to sit in the back of the car - during the 9 minutes of neck compression?
g4ry13 said:
The MMA guy said it was a blood choke on Floyd. But he also said earlier when a blood choke is used in the octagon people go out in seconds.
Floyd clearly didn't go unconscious within seconds so it wasn't a blood choke.
I have been choked out more times than I care to remember, I have seen people get chocked fully unconscious more times than I care to remember.Floyd clearly didn't go unconscious within seconds so it wasn't a blood choke.
If you can talk, the choke isn’t really on and you can pretty much just take it until it’s either let go or readjusted to be more effective.
Saying that, I watched a video of the event (not the body cam footage above) and the angle of GFs neck is very extreme and if he wasn’t dead at that point he was going to be quite soon.
g4ry13 said:
Byker28i said:
Seems sad to die over an alleged faked $20 bill. The crowd alerting the police several times doesn't sound good
It was the life he lived. If it wasn't over a fake $20 bill it would be during a mugging, car theft, home invasion etc.
As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:
Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.
Gogoplata said:
He said a blood choke can be applied only to one side, this is incorrect. He also said that the a choke was called a Kimura when demonstrating to the court Your choke must really suck if it takes 9 minutes for your opponent to go out.
Sounds like a classic case of using non expert expert witnesses. A kimura is an armlock for goodness sake. By using ill prepared, ill informed witnesses if this is true, the prosecution are hugely undermining their own case. If it can be proven that this is a technique (knee on kneck) taught to officers this then has manslaughter written all over it within the non emotive parameters of the law. Your choke must really suck if it takes 9 minutes for your opponent to go out. majordad said:
This case will be important for policing in the USA, modern camera phones bring us there as virtual witnesses.
Has been for a while. News companies have been using mobile phone footage for yearsDonald Williams the private security worker who witnessed the incident is strong witness and the defense is doing its best to trip him up. He was one of the most vocal bystanders in the video of Floyd's final moments, repeatedly asking Chauvin to get off Floyd and calling him a bum and a tough guy. Defence are trying to make out he's an angry person. He then said "I called the police on the police, I believed I witnessed a murder."
Darnella Frazier is now testifying. Her phone video of Floyd's death was the one with millions of views, and changed this case into what it became. She was 17 years old at the time, and walking to Cup Foods with a younger cousin. Apparently their testimony is important because if there is a conviction the state will argue for a greater sentence because juveniles were present.
Darnella's says she saw "a man terrified, scared, begging for his life," and had her 9 tear old cousin go into store while she walked back to scene and began recording,said she didn't want her cousin to see it.
Apparently there are 4 videos of the incident, but they are only going to hear the audio.
CNN have some live coverage as well. Obviously it's prosecution first.
Asked why no one in the crowd did anything or tried to get close, Frazier said she felt threatened as the officers "were quick to pull out mace."
"They put their hand on their mace. I can't remember if they actually pointed it at us but they definitely put their hand on the mace and we all backed back."
Asked specifically if she felt threatened by Chauvin, she said: "He seemed like – how do I word this? I felt like I was in danger when he did that. It rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't understand why they would do that, what we did for them to make us – to make them do that."
"That's why I felt threatened. I don't understand why the mace was even needed at all," Frazier added.
https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/derek-chauvin...
JagLover said:
I guess what will determine things is what effect the Jury things Fentyl had.
They found it in the deceased system and Fentyl can kill you regardless of whether you are being restrained or not.
He also had Covid19, which can kill you... Neither autopsy put them as the cause of death though.They found it in the deceased system and Fentyl can kill you regardless of whether you are being restrained or not.
This was touted across the world from day one as a "racist murder". I'm still waiting for the evidence that racism was involved- the chinese looking cop and the hispanic looking cop involved add shades of grey to this hypothesis, immediately.
People on this thread, already, stating their well-intentioned and firmly held opinion, yet admit they haven't seen evidence freely available. Like most people only having seen what was thrust in front of them by the s
t stirring media and others using this incident to further their quest for political gain.
The only people who will see all the evidence and be in a position to decide is the Jury. Based on any sort of digging into this, in my mopinion there is a pretty good chance of a reasonable doubt, so in my opinion, this will see an acquittal. Thousands of people, who had already made up their mind from seeing a 30 second picture on the news, will lose their st. I would classify them as easy manipulated and lacking the ability for critical thought and onjective analysis, the kind of people who end up being hypnotised at a stage show in Vegas.
A good outside bet will be a mistrail.
A learning point for me back in the day was Hillsbrough. I was found when that happened and, naturally, believed what I heard on the TV and read in the paper. Years later I dug into it online and did a complete 180 and saw how the police and other institutions manipulated the narrative to cover their arse or take an easy way out. Subsequently backed up when someone neutral did the same. I've learnt not to trust what I am told to believe in emotive matters, because anything objective gets drowned out; this is another example.
People on this thread, already, stating their well-intentioned and firmly held opinion, yet admit they haven't seen evidence freely available. Like most people only having seen what was thrust in front of them by the s
t stirring media and others using this incident to further their quest for political gain.The only people who will see all the evidence and be in a position to decide is the Jury. Based on any sort of digging into this, in my mopinion there is a pretty good chance of a reasonable doubt, so in my opinion, this will see an acquittal. Thousands of people, who had already made up their mind from seeing a 30 second picture on the news, will lose their s
t. I would classify them as easy manipulated and lacking the ability for critical thought and onjective analysis, the kind of people who end up being hypnotised at a stage show in Vegas.A good outside bet will be a mistrail.
A learning point for me back in the day was Hillsbrough. I was found when that happened and, naturally, believed what I heard on the TV and read in the paper. Years later I dug into it online and did a complete 180 and saw how the police and other institutions manipulated the narrative to cover their arse or take an easy way out. Subsequently backed up when someone neutral did the same. I've learnt not to trust what I am told to believe in emotive matters, because anything objective gets drowned out; this is another example.
GregK2 said:
George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?
I have far more sympathy for Mohammad Anwar, who was recently killed in a horrific manner whilst trying to earn a living by some car jacking youths. Yet this barely seems to be talked about.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
It's a horrible case, but no comparison. Anwar's attackers were promptly arrested and charged with murder, whereas those in Floyd case were only charged after public protests. I have far more sympathy for Mohammad Anwar, who was recently killed in a horrific manner whilst trying to earn a living by some car jacking youths. Yet this barely seems to be talked about.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
Any case where law enforcement are suspected of killing someone are massively worrying.
Byker28i said:
Do you have a link to his criminal record you're quoting or are you stereotyping - just so we know.
As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:
Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.
https://www.ieyenews.com/the-death-of-george-floyd-he-was-no-innocent-when-it-came-to-crime/As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:
Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.
No idea what any of it means except the top one aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon
voyds9 said:
Byker28i said:
Do you have a link to his criminal record you're quoting or are you stereotyping - just so we know.
As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:
Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.
https://www.ieyenews.com/the-death-of-george-floyd-he-was-no-innocent-when-it-came-to-crime/As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:
Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.
No idea what any of it means except the top one aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon
A pretty good summary of his history here - https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floy... . With no convictions for the last 13 years of his life.
They've also got a well sourced history of Chauvin - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/derek-chauvin-fl...
One or two witnesses have been obviously prepared, the 9 year old was asked what did you see when you arrived on scene ?
Not a commotion, or I seen some cops around a car but straight in with " I saw a police officer with his knee on George Floyd's neck ".
Once we get rid of these wholly biased rent-a-mob rubberneckers the real trial will start with the expert medical testimony and
reasonable doubt will have a chance to seep it's way into the courtroom.
Not a commotion, or I seen some cops around a car but straight in with " I saw a police officer with his knee on George Floyd's neck ".
Once we get rid of these wholly biased rent-a-mob rubberneckers the real trial will start with the expert medical testimony and
reasonable doubt will have a chance to seep it's way into the courtroom.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff