Derek Chauvin Trial

[amgmcqueen]

JuniorD said:

thewarlock said:

GregK2 said:

George Floyd made many poor life descions that ultimately lead to his death. Why don't people feel the need to take responsibilty for their actions anymore?

I hear what you're saying, but he didn't kneel on his own neck for 9 minutes.

That was Officer Chauvin. Do you feel he should take responsibility for his own actions?

This. But for Chauvin's actions, George Floyd would not be dead.

I believe this is being questioned by the defence. They are saying he died from other causes unrelated to the kneel/choke. Not sure what the autopsy threw up?

[Thorodin]

First, I'm not a doctor.

Second, as far as I can remember there are four carotid arteries, two on each side of the neck which carry blood and oxygen to the brain and to the facial muscles. None of these vessels carry oxygen to the lungs, it goes to the head. Blood going the other way does not carry oxygen or Co2. Ergo, no asphyxiation. Secondly, it's glaringly evident that the officer had one of his knees on one side of the neck with his weight on the other (his Right one) leg. The practice was a well-known restraint method widely used to effectively no ill effect.

Thirdly, the prisoner was struggling and shouting wildly and, if released, would have undoubtedly posed a significant danger to the officer.

Can't see the problem, if a cop grabs you, he means it so don't resist,

[Earthdweller]

rscott said:

Yep. Had previous convictions and had served time for them.

With no convictions for the last 13 years of his life.

To contextualise no convictions in the last 13 years before his death .. his last conviction was for a serious felony for which he was sent to jail, 13 years before his death. He was released from prison in 2014

We know that 5 years after his release from prison he was arrested in 2019 because footage has emerged of him being arrested, in very similar circs to his death a year later .. but we don’t know the outcome of that arrest. The defence has tried and failed to have mention of that excluded from the trial.

We do not know if there were any other police involved incidents/crimes recorded between his release from prison in 2014 and his arrest in 2019 .. nor anything between 2019 and his death in 2020

We do know that their have been serious attempts to exclude “prior history” being disclosed

Perhaps as the trial goes on more will be revealed but it is clear that for 7 of the last 13 he was in prison

Edited by Earthdweller on Tuesday 30th March 19:45

[coppernorks]

Thorodin said:

Can't see the problem, if a cop grabs you, he means it so don't resist,

Cops are in a lose-lose situation, restraining a large person hell bent on harming officers or escaping
ALWAYS looks bad to onlookers regardless of what transpired to cause the police to take such action,
and these onlookers seem to be hot-wired to sympathise with the crazy person rather than the cops.

[Esceptico]

Stigproducts said:

This was touted across the world from day one as a "racist murder". I'm still waiting for the evidence that racism was involved- the chinese looking cop and the hispanic looking cop involved add shades of grey to this hypothesis, immediately.

People on this thread, already, stating their well-intentioned and firmly held opinion, yet admit they haven't seen evidence freely available. Like most people only having seen what was thrust in front of them by the st stirring media and others using this incident to further their quest for political gain.

The only people who will see all the evidence and be in a position to decide is the Jury. Based on any sort of digging into this, in my mopinion there is a pretty good chance of a reasonable doubt, so in my opinion, this will see an acquittal. Thousands of people, who had already made up their mind from seeing a 30 second picture on the news, will lose their st. I would classify them as easy manipulated and lacking the ability for critical thought and onjective analysis, the kind of people who end up being hypnotised at a stage show in Vegas.

A good outside bet will be a mistrail.

A learning point for me back in the day was Hillsbrough. I was found when that happened and, naturally, believed what I heard on the TV and read in the paper. Years later I dug into it online and did a complete 180 and saw how the police and other institutions manipulated the narrative to cover their arse or take an easy way out. Subsequently backed up when someone neutral did the same. I've learnt not to trust what I am told to believe in emotive matters, because anything objective gets drowned out; this is another example.

Perhaps you should do some more homework on race relations in the US and how black Americans have been so badly treated over the centuries - it certainly didn’t stop with the end of slavery. There are people alive today in the US that took part or witnesses lynchings. Today the Republicans are doing their best to come up with new ways of disenfranchising black voters.

A good (white) friend has lived long term in the US. He has given me plenty of examples of casual racism eg white Americans referring to Obama as a “fking N*****”.

Given how badly black Americans have been treated by the police over the years it is hardly surprising when a video emerges of a black person being choked to death by a white cop it is going to cause an outrage.

[Esceptico]

amgmcqueen said:

I believe this is being questioned by the defence. They are saying he died from other causes unrelated to the kneel/choke. Not sure what the autopsy threw up?

There were two autopsies. See posts above. Both concluded homicide ie he was killed.

[Byker28i]

coppernorks said:

One or two witnesses have been obviously prepared, the 9 year old was asked what did you see when you arrived on scene ?
Not a commotion, or I seen some cops around a car but straight in with " I saw a police officer with his knee on George Floyd's neck ".

Once we get rid of these wholly biased rent-a-mob rubberneckers the real trial will start with the expert medical testimony and
reasonable doubt will have a chance to seep it's way into the courtroom.

Obviously it's prosecution testimony at the moment and it'll sound bad, but when you've an off duty EMT trying to check floyds pulse and give aid, and being threatened with Mace by Chauvin to stay away...

[DeepEnd]

Surprised this is not a more clear cut case against DC, yet not on PH.....

Having seen the harrowing video and all the people pointing out the obvious distress GF was exhibiting while on the floor, DC is patently culpable for the outcome. The proof in so many ways is that GF is dead, and died on the floor, whilst his head/neck was pinned under DCs knee in a way that is extremely uncomfortable viewing - as it is all on video.

[g4ry13]

Byker28i said:

g4ry13 said:

Byker28i said:

Seems sad to die over an alleged faked $20 bill. The crowd alerting the police several times doesn't sound good

It was the life he lived.

If it wasn't over a fake $20 bill it would be during a mugging, car theft, home invasion etc.

Do you have a link to his criminal record you're quoting or are you stereotyping - just so we know.


As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:

Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.

I have read through his rap sheet and what he's been arrested / charged with in the past so let's not go there and attempt to make generalisations about me

[Liokault]

DeepEnd said:

Surprised this is not a more clear cut case against DC, yet not on PH.....

Having seen the harrowing video and all the people pointing out the obvious distress GF was exhibiting while on the floor, DC is patently culpable for the outcome. The proof in so many ways is that GF is dead, and died on the floor, whilst his head/neck was pinned under DCs knee in a way that is extremely uncomfortable viewing - as it is all on video.

But it’s not clear cut is it, unless you. Are totally partisan, which you totally are.

Fundamentally, GF wasn’t a nice guy, had a history of resisting arrest, swallowed enough drugs to kill him, had heart trouble and resisted getting in the police car saying he couldn’t breath. There is fault (for want of a better word) here.

On the other hand. DC didn’t go out to to murder a man. DC did indeed put his knee on the neck of a guy who had clearly, well after a reasonable time had elapsed to restrain a person, stopped responding. Their is clearly fault here.

Saying this is clear cut is totally disingenuous. The answer is somewhere in the middle. .

[Byker28i]

g4ry13 said:

Byker28i said:

g4ry13 said:

Byker28i said:

Seems sad to die over an alleged faked $20 bill. The crowd alerting the police several times doesn't sound good

It was the life he lived.

If it wasn't over a fake $20 bill it would be during a mugging, car theft, home invasion etc.

Do you have a link to his criminal record you're quoting or are you stereotyping - just so we know.


As said, I think the biggest problem the officers face is:

Prosecutors noted in a filing that after Floyd fell silent, the crowd alerted the officers 10 times that Floyd was no longer moving, warned them nine times that Floyd was unresponsive, and pleaded with them nearly 30 times to check Floyd’s pulse. But the officers remained in the same positions.

I have read through his rap sheet and what he's been arrested / charged with in the past so let's not go there and attempt to make generalisations about me

So had I and it was old convictions, as above. You were trying to make out he was a frequent, active criminal...


And the copper also had previous. Which you ignored...

Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 30th March 20:43

[J6542]

I used to watch a few different US cop shows, and the knee on the neck was quite often used to restrain people. Why anyone would be a cop there, when simple traffic stops can turn into crazy shootouts.

[coppernorks]

DeepEnd said:

Surprised this is not a more clear cut case against DC, yet not on PH.....

Having seen the harrowing video and all the people pointing out the obvious distress GF was exhibiting while on the floor, DC is patently culpable for the outcome. The proof in so many ways is that GF is dead, and died on the floor, whilst his head/neck was pinned under DCs knee in a way that is extremely uncomfortable viewing - as it is all on video.

True, but the defence would be remiss if it didn't point out that's it's reasonable to assert that not
every man of his age, build and ethnicity would automatically succumb to death given the same
[admittedly barbaric] treatment ?

[Byker28i]

Liokault said:

DeepEnd said:

Surprised this is not a more clear cut case against DC, yet not on PH.....

Having seen the harrowing video and all the people pointing out the obvious distress GF was exhibiting while on the floor, DC is patently culpable for the outcome. The proof in so many ways is that GF is dead, and died on the floor, whilst his head/neck was pinned under DCs knee in a way that is extremely uncomfortable viewing - as it is all on video.

But it’s not clear cut is it, unless you. Are totally partisan, which you totally are.

Fundamentally, GF wasn’t a nice guy, had a history of resisting arrest, swallowed enough drugs to kill him, had heart trouble and resisted getting in the police car saying he couldn’t breath. There is fault (for want of a better word) here.

On the other hand. DC didn’t go out to to murder a man. DC did indeed put his knee on the neck of a guy who had clearly, well after a reasonable time had elapsed to restrain a person, stopped responding. Their is clearly fault here.

Saying this is clear cut is totally disingenuous. The answer is somewhere in the middle. .

It's not murder, but the actions being disclosed would tend towards manslaughter? Obviously it's prosecution evidence at the moment so it will look bad for the officer

[DeepEnd]

coppernorks said:

DeepEnd said:

Surprised this is not a more clear cut case against DC, yet not on PH.....

Having seen the harrowing video and all the people pointing out the obvious distress GF was exhibiting while on the floor, DC is patently culpable for the outcome. The proof in so many ways is that GF is dead, and died on the floor, whilst his head/neck was pinned under DCs knee in a way that is extremely uncomfortable viewing - as it is all on video.

True, but the defence would be remiss if it didn't point out that's it's reasonable to assert that not
every man of his age, build and ethnicity would automatically succumb to death given the same
[admittedly barbaric] treatment ?

I'm not so sure - it seems a large number of bystanders see the risk to GF's life very clearly. It was apparent to everyone it seems except DC. There was even someone trying to find a pulse who was shooed away. People don't randomly try and find a pulse for someone who is fine. Anyone watching the video can see it looks like he is dying.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/george-floyd...

[RB Will]

Byker28i said:

So had I and it was old convictions, as above. You were trying to make out he was a frequent, active criminal...

Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 30th March 20:43

He may not have had recent CONVICTIONS but he does still seem to be up to illegal/ criminal activity, someone said an arrest in 2019 where he was seen with drugs? Then 2020 allegedly using counterfeit money (was this ever investigated or confirmed), and possession and use of a decent quantity of illegal drugs by the sound of it. And if they are arguing the 4 times an overdose amount found in his system wasn’t enough to kill him it suggests he must be a serious habitual user

[Stigproducts]

Esceptico said:

Stigproducts said:

This was touted across the world from day one as a "racist murder". I'm still waiting for the evidence that racism was involved- the chinese looking cop and the hispanic looking cop involved add shades of grey to this hypothesis, immediately.

People on this thread, already, stating their well-intentioned and firmly held opinion, yet admit they haven't seen evidence freely available. Like most people only having seen what was thrust in front of them by the st stirring media and others using this incident to further their quest for political gain.

The only people who will see all the evidence and be in a position to decide is the Jury. Based on any sort of digging into this, in my mopinion there is a pretty good chance of a reasonable doubt, so in my opinion, this will see an acquittal. Thousands of people, who had already made up their mind from seeing a 30 second picture on the news, will lose their st. I would classify them as easy manipulated and lacking the ability for critical thought and onjective analysis, the kind of people who end up being hypnotised at a stage show in Vegas.

A good outside bet will be a mistrail.

A learning point for me back in the day was Hillsbrough. I was found when that happened and, naturally, believed what I heard on the TV and read in the paper. Years later I dug into it online and did a complete 180 and saw how the police and other institutions manipulated the narrative to cover their arse or take an easy way out. Subsequently backed up when someone neutral did the same. I've learnt not to trust what I am told to believe in emotive matters, because anything objective gets drowned out; this is another example.

Perhaps you should do some more homework on race relations in the US and how black Americans have been so badly treated over the centuries - it certainly didn’t stop with the end of slavery. There are people alive today in the US that took part or witnesses lynchings. Today the Republicans are doing their best to come up with new ways of disenfranchising black voters.

A good (white) friend has lived long term in the US. He has given me plenty of examples of casual racism eg white Americans referring to Obama as a “fking N*****”.

Given how badly black Americans have been treated by the police over the years it is hardly surprising when a video emerges of a black person being choked to death by a white cop it is going to cause an outrage.

Only if you want it to. meanwhile the vast majority of people go about their business and really don't care about race or race relations. Your point, I assume about Georgia, is a load of tosh.

[Electro1980]

Stigproducts said:

Esceptico said:

Stigproducts said:

This was touted across the world from day one as a "racist murder". I'm still waiting for the evidence that racism was involved- the chinese looking cop and the hispanic looking cop involved add shades of grey to this hypothesis, immediately.

People on this thread, already, stating their well-intentioned and firmly held opinion, yet admit they haven't seen evidence freely available. Like most people only having seen what was thrust in front of them by the st stirring media and others using this incident to further their quest for political gain.

The only people who will see all the evidence and be in a position to decide is the Jury. Based on any sort of digging into this, in my mopinion there is a pretty good chance of a reasonable doubt, so in my opinion, this will see an acquittal. Thousands of people, who had already made up their mind from seeing a 30 second picture on the news, will lose their st. I would classify them as easy manipulated and lacking the ability for critical thought and onjective analysis, the kind of people who end up being hypnotised at a stage show in Vegas.

A good outside bet will be a mistrail.

A learning point for me back in the day was Hillsbrough. I was found when that happened and, naturally, believed what I heard on the TV and read in the paper. Years later I dug into it online and did a complete 180 and saw how the police and other institutions manipulated the narrative to cover their arse or take an easy way out. Subsequently backed up when someone neutral did the same. I've learnt not to trust what I am told to believe in emotive matters, because anything objective gets drowned out; this is another example.

Perhaps you should do some more homework on race relations in the US and how black Americans have been so badly treated over the centuries - it certainly didn’t stop with the end of slavery. There are people alive today in the US that took part or witnesses lynchings. Today the Republicans are doing their best to come up with new ways of disenfranchising black voters.

A good (white) friend has lived long term in the US. He has given me plenty of examples of casual racism eg white Americans referring to Obama as a “fking N*****”.

Given how badly black Americans have been treated by the police over the years it is hardly surprising when a video emerges of a black person being choked to death by a white cop it is going to cause an outrage.

Only if you want it to. meanwhile the vast majority of people go about their business and really don't care about race or race relations. Your point, I assume about Georgia, is a load of tosh.

Your ignorance does not make it true. Race is a major issue in the US. How you can dismiss clear attempts to disenfranchise vast numbers of black Americans as “tosh” I don’t know.

[coppernorks]

The firewoman getting testy when she accused of being hazy and forgetful about her written
statement especially when it differs from the answers she gives on the stand, judge gives her an
earbashing for being argumentative with council.

[Esceptico]

RB Will said:

Byker28i said:

So had I and it was old convictions, as above. You were trying to make out he was a frequent, active criminal...

Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 30th March 20:43

He may not have had recent CONVICTIONS but he does still seem to be up to illegal/ criminal activity, someone said an arrest in 2019 where he was seen with drugs? Then 2020 allegedly using counterfeit money (was this ever investigated or confirmed), and possession and use of a decent quantity of illegal drugs by the sound of it. And if they are arguing the 4 times an overdose amount found in his system wasn’t enough to kill him it suggests he must be a serious habitual user

GF had a criminal record and may have committed a crime on the day he was killed (albeit a non-violent one). GF may have been a troubled individual with substance abuse issues (hardly unique in the US). Some on here seem to be arguing that that is sufficient excuse for him being killed by the police after taking him into custody. In civilised countries the police manage to arrest people without killing them.