No evidence the UK is institutionally racist

[NerveAgent]

Dr Jekyll said:

bhstewie said:

Not sure how you would show a nation to institutionally racist?

We saw things like the Macpherson report which wasn't all that long ago which suggested some issues in some areas.

[b]You also have the Prime Minister using terms such as.[/]

"letterboxes"

"bank robbers"

"picanninies with watermelon smiles"

Can't think why anyone might have the impression there's a problem

I don't think we are as a nation but there's certainly work to do.

So what does that make you now that you have done the same thing? Or is context relevant?

Well played

[austinsmirk]

Richtea1970 said:

I used to have this view, but it comes down to the line of work you're in. Unfortunately you deal with the lowest common denominator. When/if you leave your line of work you'll discover that as a whole we are very tolerant and diverse in this country.
Try travelling to a few Eastern European countries and you'll see why.

I totally agree with you. I find these people abhorrent

I’m English, my parents are not. In fact my family have faced persecution, had to flee from their countries, been imprisoned, forced into slave labour and so on. I’ve never really faced many issues, but it’s all there in my heritage.

[Murph7355]

Ian Geary said:

... It's stupid to try and fix things without understanding what is actually not working.

The excerpt posted does give indications - social issues and family structure.

I think most people could see it's quite evident these things are a problem. Getting people to do something about it when it's far easier and more successful for them to blame something they cannot control/do anything about (ie absolving themselves of responsibility) is evidently beyond us sadly (social and familial issues in a nutshell).

[T6 vanman]

JeffreyD said:

From the conclusions discussed so far it seems that people on both sides will have to accept we are a model for racial integration and multi culturalism.
That's going to be confusing for many.

You have a certain sub section of society spend sooooooo long telling a group there oppressed .... then when the evidence says otherwise

[JeffreyD]

T6 vanman said:

You have a certain sub section of society spend sooooooo long telling a group there oppressed .... then when the evidence says otherwise

I suppose it depends on what evidence you look at.

Do you believe we are a beacon for the success of multiculturalism?

[Blib]

Guardian said:

Simon Woolley, who was head of No 10’s race disparity unit until last summer, slammed the commission for disrespecting and disregarding people’s lived experience.

IMO, the idea that 'lived experience ' trumps all is deeply flawed.

I have recently retired from my job as a psychotherapist. I dealt with many, many individual's "lived experience'. After all, that's my stock in trade.

However, I've also dealt with the families and close friends of these individuals, acting as a conduit between them. I have also facilitated dozens of "con-joint" meetings where client and family sit together to discuss the way forward.

Very often, the individual's "lived experience" is fundamentally at odds with the subjective facts of the matter.

While "lived experience" is an individual's truth, it does not necessary follow that it is actually so.

[pquinn]

For some people *everything* is racist that doesn't go their way.

Like Pimlico Academy - lots of people busy shouting racism because they don't agree with standards on appearance, or uniform, or the curriculum, or almost everything else.

Also a handy crutch for some people to hang onto - any problem is easily blamed on 'racism' because the real issue is more complex. In some cases is might even be race related (say health issues) but that doesn't mean it's racist.

[BobsPigeon]

Most of the country believes a 2000 year old ghost from Palestine and his Dad are watching over us directing our lives...

The more empirical data and factual evidence we can build around our culture the better as long as its openly discussed and cynically reviewed, and not just on Jeremy Vine's phone in.

People's thoughts and ideas on what's going on in the world around them isnt entirely without influence, to say the least, and like to think I respect other people's points of view but in my experience the accusation that the UK is "institutionally" racist is way off and the numbers and studies seem to back that up.

Luck of when, where, brain chemistry and whom you're born to seem to be the defining factors to success in the UK, not skin colour.

[poo at Paul's]

Britain needs to do better it seems.

Lets start with the Greeks,.............. then the Chinese.... (Father!)

[guards red]

T6 vanman said:

You have a certain sub section of society spend sooooooo long telling a group there oppressed .... then when the evidence says otherwise

Not sure why that's funny? I guess they must have made it all up. Multiple programs on various channels that have real life experience, I guess that too is all made up so you can snigger at it.

I wonder whether you'd be on here wringing your hands had the report come to a dfferent conclusion. I suspect not.

Edited by guards red on Wednesday 31st March 16:46

[bitchstewie]

I do like Newsthump.

White people pleased racism sorted and everything can get back to normal

[markcoznottz]

T6 vanman said:

JeffreyD said:

From the conclusions discussed so far it seems that people on both sides will have to accept we are a model for racial integration and multi culturalism.
That's going to be confusing for many.

You have a certain sub section of society spend sooooooo long telling a group there oppressed .... then when the evidence says otherwise

All the rich white middle class girls at the blm rally, who only get thier internships because thier (white) parents know the right (white) people. Funny old world.

[Dr Jekyll]

guards red said:

T6 vanman said:

You have a certain sub section of society spend sooooooo long telling a group there oppressed .... then when the evidence says otherwise

Not sure why that's funny? I guess they must have made it all up. Multiple programs on various channels that have real life experience, I guess that too it all made up so you can snigger at it.

I wonder whether you'd be on here wringing your hands had the report come to a dfferent conclusion. I suspect not.

As the saying goes, 'the plural of anecdote is not data.'.

[JeffreyD]

markcoznottz said:

All the rich white middle class girls at the blm rally, who only get thier internships because thier (white) parents know the right (white) people. Funny old world.

Is that what actually happens?

[Greedydog]

JeffreyD said:

markcoznottz said:

All the rich white middle class girls at the blm rally, who only get thier internships because thier (white) parents know the right (white) people. Funny old world.

Is that what actually happens?

No, where I work internships, and other roles, are screened on an anonymous basis. You don't know the sex, name, age, ethnic origin or any other identifying feature of the candidate beyond their education and achievements. Yes, you can deduce somethings from other information but that's unavoidable. Any relations of friends or associates are strictly referred to the candidate selection process along with everyone else. Having been involved in the candidate selection I'm pretty confident there's absolutely no preferential treatment.

[JeffreyD]

Greedydog said:

No, where I work internships, and other roles, are screened on an anonymous basis. You don't know the sex, name, age, ethnic origin or any other identifying feature of the candidate beyond their education and achievements. Yes, you can deduce somethings from other information but that's unavoidable. Any relations of friends or associates are strictly referred to the candidate selection process along with everyone else. Having been involved in the candidate selection I'm pretty confident there's absolutely no preferential treatment.

That's a relief.

If the other poster was correct then we'd have a problem with institutional racism. That would have confused me.

[bitchstewie]

Greedydog said:

No, where I work internships, and other roles, are screened on an anonymous basis. You don't know the sex, name, age, ethnic origin or any other identifying feature of the candidate beyond their education and achievements. Yes, you can deduce somethings from other information but that's unavoidable. Any relations of friends or associates are strictly referred to the candidate selection process along with everyone else. Having been involved in the candidate selection I'm pretty confident there's absolutely no preferential treatment.

I wonder how widespread that is especially amongst smaller companies though?

I've literally read people on here say they looked less favourably on applications from people with Muslim sounding names because they expect they'll be awkward and want special treatment around prayers etc.

[Greedydog]

JeffreyD said:

Greedydog said:

No, where I work internships, and other roles, are screened on an anonymous basis. You don't know the sex, name, age, ethnic origin or any other identifying feature of the candidate beyond their education and achievements. Yes, you can deduce somethings from other information but that's unavoidable. Any relations of friends or associates are strictly referred to the candidate selection process along with everyone else. Having been involved in the candidate selection I'm pretty confident there's absolutely no preferential treatment.

That's a relief.

If the other poster was correct then we'd have a problem with institutional racism. That would have confused me.

I'm just speaking for what I know. I'm sure there will be others without such safeguards, but to suggest internships are all about who you know, rather that what you can bring as an individual, is not true for most (but probably not all) competent businesses.

[Greedydog]

bhstewie said:

Greedydog said:

No, where I work internships, and other roles, are screened on an anonymous basis. You don't know the sex, name, age, ethnic origin or any other identifying feature of the candidate beyond their education and achievements. Yes, you can deduce somethings from other information but that's unavoidable. Any relations of friends or associates are strictly referred to the candidate selection process along with everyone else. Having been involved in the candidate selection I'm pretty confident there's absolutely no preferential treatment.

I wonder how widespread that is especially amongst smaller companies though?

I've literally read people on here say they looked less favourably on applications from people with Muslim sounding names because they expect they'll be awkward and want special treatment around prayers etc.

I work at a relatively small company however I've never heard anything like that raised. That's not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere, ignorance is rife in in all areas.

[JeffreyD]

Greedydog said:

I'm just speaking for what I know. I'm sure there will be others without such safeguards, but to suggest internships are all about who you know, rather that what you can bring as an individual, is not true for most (but probably not all) competent businesses.

I wonder how the report handled this aspect of things then?

Has it actually been published fully yet or a we still in the phase where government gets the messages it needs to out into the public domain?

This is going to do very well with the new Tory voters and once again paints Labour into a corner.