Will the plan work to turn generation rent into buy?

[Normodog]

InitialDave said:

Out of interest, why a desk in your bedroom, were you living at your parents' place for that 2 years while saving a deposit?

Surely that counts as having help from others.

[Greg_D]

InitialDave said:

Greg_D said:

I started work at the age of 14 and started my own business at 19 from a pull out computer desk in the corner of my bedroom, I brought my first house a couple of years later with no assistance from my family.

Out of interest, why a desk in your bedroom, were you living at your parents' place for that 2 years while saving a deposit?

Yes I was.

Let me guess, a 19 year old living at home is some sort of leg up in your opinion.... to most people, that is just normal. It’s just good, responsible parenting to give your children that possibility to get ahead.

That’s my entire point though, to ensure I didn’t get caught in the rental trap, I got my head down early and built a nest egg, free of debt.

[InitialDave]

Greg_D said:

Yes I was.

Let me guess, a 19 year old living at home is some sort of leg up in your opinion.... to most people, that is just normal. It’s just good, responsible parenting to give your children that possibility to get ahead.

That’s my entire point though, to ensure I didn’t get caught in the rental trap, I got my head down early and built a nest egg, free of debt.

No, it's fine. I also think it's perfectly normal.

But you did benefit from help from your family.

You don't get to have both these positions:

Greg_D said:

I brought my first house a couple of years later with no assistance from my family.

Greg_D said:

It’s just good, responsible parenting to give your children that possibility to get ahead.

[Ilovejapcrap]

Interesting read all this.

I don’t feel easy with BTL, I kinda feel it helps the rich get richer and keeps house prices high. Now I’ve not given this a huge amount of thought, I’m not saying I’m right . it’s just how I feel.

Would tax on BTL be a good thing ? If it didn’t exist will we have less rentable props for people ? I suppose house prices falling then affects those already on the ladder ?

What’s people’s view on stopping BTL ?

[Greg_D]

InitialDave said:

Greg_D said:

Yes I was.

Let me guess, a 19 year old living at home is some sort of leg up in your opinion.... to most people, that is just normal. It’s just good, responsible parenting to give your children that possibility to get ahead.

That’s my entire point though, to ensure I didn’t get caught in the rental trap, I got my head down early and built a nest egg, free of debt.

No, it's fine. I also think it's perfectly normal.

But you did benefit from help from your family.

You don't get to have both these positions:

Greg_D said:

I brought my first house a couple of years later with no assistance from my family.

Greg_D said:

It’s just good, responsible parenting to give your children that possibility to get ahead.

Listen... if that’s all you’ve got to demonstrate privilege, then I’ll let you have it.
While we are at it, my parents also provided nappies when I was a toddler, I hang my head in shame at the bourgeoisie decadence of it all... get a grip, arguing the Nth degree of privilege kind of misses the blooming point, doesn’t it! Let’s not turn this into a Yorkshireman sketch...

Getting a house isn’t a unicorn pursuit for most people, if they put their mind to it...

[InitialDave]

Greg_D said:

Listen... if that’s all you’ve got to demonstrate privilege, then I’ll let you have it.

I never mentioned privilege. As I said, I regard that kind of help from your parents as pretty normal.

But you can't say you saved a house deposit with no help when you did, in fact, receive help.

[austinsmirk]

Ilovejapcrap said:

Interesting read all this.

I don’t feel easy with BTL, I kinda feel it helps the rich get richer and keeps house prices high. Now I’ve not given this a huge amount of thought, I’m not saying I’m right . it’s just how I feel.

Would tax on BTL be a good thing ? If it didn’t exist will we have less rentable props for people ? I suppose house prices falling then affects those already on the ladder ?

What’s people’s view on stopping BTL ?

You do pay or should I say, you should pay. I pay income tax on my BTLs. Plus capital gains to pay if you sell.

Tenants and why they rent are odd to pigeonhole though. I’ve one couple who both have professional jobs. Yet they rent. They could buy the same sort of house for similar mortgage payments. Only thing I can figure is they both have expensive ish financed cars. If that’s say £600/£800 a month then maybe that kills the house purchase. I genuinely don’t know. You don’t know what’s in people’s financial history: eg court orders, credit card debt etc.

[Greg_D]

InitialDave said:

I never mentioned privilege. As I said, I regard that kind of help from your parents as pretty normal.

But you can't say you saved a house deposit with no help when you did, in fact, receive help.

Here you go again, seeking ever finer interpretations of help to cling onto your point.

‘Help’ would surely be defined as assistance in addition to what anyone would reasonably expect to be provided to anyone in the same position. I would say that I did not receive ‘help’ as a 19 year old living with parents would not be considered unusual at all...

Let me be clear, I received no direct or indirect financial assistance from my parents. other than accommodation entirely appropriate to a person of my age. Let it be noted that I was required to contribute to the food bill of the house during the period that I was working and living at home.

[InitialDave]

Greg_D said:

Here you go again, seeking ever finer interpretations of help to cling onto your point.

Not really, no.

[Greg_D]

InitialDave said:

Greg_D said:

Here you go again, seeking ever finer interpretations of help to cling onto your point.

Not really, no.

yes really, yes

You are stating a teenager living at home constitutes help. It’s a wilfully picky position

[NRS]

Greg_D said:

InitialDave said:

I never mentioned privilege. As I said, I regard that kind of help from your parents as pretty normal.

But you can't say you saved a house deposit with no help when you did, in fact, receive help.

Here you go again, seeking ever finer interpretations of help to cling onto your point.

‘Help’ would surely be defined as assistance in addition to what anyone would reasonably expect to be provided to anyone in the same position. I would say that I did not receive ‘help’ as a 19 year old living with parents would not be considered unusual at all...

Let me be clear, I received no direct or indirect financial assistance from my parents. other than accommodation entirely appropriate to a person of my age. Let it be noted that I was required to contribute to the food bill of the house during the period that I was working and living at home.

It's a lot of help - basically you got subsidised what would be quite a few hundred quid a month at least... if you're in the south east probably closer to £1000? Plus electricity, council tax, heating etc... That's a big financial help, whether you like to pretend it isn't or not.

You're like many people I know from before:

"I got no help from my parents for buying house"
"Well, they did let you live rent free, and you did get to use their car for a bit, which they paid the insurance on... they also took you on holiday with them to xyz..."
"Yes, but that doesn't count..."

Lots of people won't have that help through things like:
Parents are assholes/want to teach their kid to stand on their own two feet.
Parents can't afford an additional adult in the house rent free (for example on benefits, divorce so can't afford the extra bedroom etc).
No jobs of that type in the area so have to move for work (which has been posted lots by those claiming lots of others are lazy... but you can't stay at parents and move to where there is jobs...).

[Biggy Stardust]

Ilovejapcrap said:

Interesting read all this.

I don’t feel easy with BTL, I kinda feel it helps the rich get richer and keeps house prices high. Now I’ve not given this a huge amount of thought, I’m not saying I’m right . it’s just how I feel.

Would tax on BTL be a good thing ? If it didn’t exist will we have less rentable props for people ? I suppose house prices falling then affects those already on the ladder ?

What’s people’s view on stopping BTL ?

Do you honestly believe that BTL isn't taxed? Really?

Also if you stop BTL, where do you anticipate the tenants living?

[InitialDave]

Greg_D said:

You are stating a teenager living at home constitutes help. It’s a wilfully picky position

It isn't. My issue with your original statement is clear and easily understood.

See the post above by NRS for further opinions on the matter.

It's fine to receive this help from your parents. But recognise it is that, and recognise many do not.

[Ilovejapcrap]

Biggy Stardust said:

Ilovejapcrap said:

Interesting read all this.

I don’t feel easy with BTL, I kinda feel it helps the rich get richer and keeps house prices high. Now I’ve not given this a huge amount of thought, I’m not saying I’m right . it’s just how I feel.

Would tax on BTL be a good thing ? If it didn’t exist will we have less rentable props for people ? I suppose house prices falling then affects those already on the ladder ?

What’s people’s view on stopping BTL ?

Do you honestly believe that BTL isn't taxed? Really?

Also if you stop BTL, where do you anticipate the tenants living?

What I meant is taxed higher, apologies I missed the word more. I actually mentioned less rentable housing for people in my query.

As stated in my comment it was just some loose thoughts I had for discussion.

[Greg_D]

InitialDave said:

Greg_D said:

You are stating a teenager living at home constitutes help. It’s a wilfully picky position

It isn't. My issue with your original statement is clear and easily understood.

See the post above by NRS for further opinions on the matter.

It's fine to receive this help from your parents. But recognise it is that, and recognise many do not.

I will not concede that it is abnormal assistance. Where are all these 16 year olds thrown to the wolves by their parents? because I certainly don’t know any. Every single one of my wider friendship group lived with their parents either rent free or for peppercorn rent. And my friends were largely from the lowest income groups in tough areas (pensnett, brockmoor and gornal for those of you familiar with the west mids - any silver spoons had generally found their way to cash converters a long time ago...)

So ‘not being wilfully abusive towards your kids’ does not constitute help, no..
There will always be those from the other side of the tracks who genuinely had a rotten upbringing with scum for parents, but they are not ‘the norm’ and certainly aren’t representative of ‘generation rent’

[NRS]

Greg_D said:

I will not concede that it is abnormal assistance. Where are all these 16 year olds thrown to the wolves by their parents? because I certainly don’t know any. Every single one of my wider friendship group lived with their parents either rent free or for peppercorn rent. And my friends were largely from the lowest income groups in tough areas (pensnett, brockmoor and gornal for those of you familiar with the west mids - any silver spoons had generally found their way to cash converters a long time ago...)

So ‘not being wilfully abusive towards your kids’ does not constitute help, no..
There will always be those from the other side of the tracks who genuinely had a rotten upbringing with scum for parents, but they are not ‘the norm’ and certainly aren’t representative of ‘generation rent’

You had the definition of "‘Help’ would surely be defined as assistance in addition to what anyone would reasonably expect to be provided to anyone in the same position. I would say that I did not receive ‘help’ as a 19 year old living with parents would not be considered unusual at all..."

If that's the case then parents giving their kids a house, or a house deposit are the same then and don't count. Lots of parents would do that for their kids, so that isn't help either. Same for free holidays etc.

[Greg_D]

I’m not sure what to say about that...

That’s got to be amongst the dumbest misrepresentations I have ever seen. That is absolutely not what I am saying, but you knew that, you’re just being wilfully circular in your position.

You know what they say, never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...

On that basis, I’m out. You just will not see reason and I have way better things to spend my time on than trying to play a game of twisty point with a bloody idiot...

[98elise]

Ilovejapcrap said:

Interesting read all this.

I don’t feel easy with BTL, I kinda feel it helps the rich get richer and keeps house prices high. Now I’ve not given this a huge amount of thought, I’m not saying I’m right . it’s just how I feel.

Would tax on BTL be a good thing ? If it didn’t exist will we have less rentable props for people ? I suppose house prices falling then affects those already on the ladder ?

What’s people’s view on stopping BTL ?

Why do you think it's not taxed? The average yield is 4-5% BEFORE expenses and tax. Unlike any other business you can't offset all the finance costs unless you are a ltd company. With BTL you can be taxed more than your profit!

Why we larger companies renting property getting bigger tax breaks than an individual? Its like Tesco's being given tax breaks at the expense of the local butcher.

[Bacon Is Proof]

A.J.M said:

Some people on here, while singing their own merits of travelling half way round the world for free to sleep on a couch to earn more money and think nothing of it.

Seem to either accidentally or deliberately gloss over the reality that there are many jobs that don’t pay the national average of £38k.
But they are jobs that are needed and have to be done.

I’ll take my own industry as prime example.
Care sector.

There are currently, 18% of the working age population, or over 7 million people, who are defined as disabled according to the Equality act 2010.
8% of children in the U.K. are disabled.

These people will require care in their daily lives.
Either a little, a lot or 24/7/365. They will need care for life.

So, these jobs are needed. The pay regardless of location in the country is very similar, so moving for better pay isn’t really worth it.
Leaving the job, simply means someone else will step in and do it.

Why should these folks be punished for doing a difficult job that sadly isn’t valued by society in large.

I’ve been doing it 12 years, sadly the number of people needing care is growing, the salary isn’t.
We don’t get 4% annual pay rises or large bonuses.

I’m still waiting over 2 months on to see if Nippys £500 bonus is going to be paid to me. My midwife friend has already had and spent hers...

We need houses as well, affordable ones. Not overpriced shoeboxes in some st hole area the police won’t go to.

By the middle of June I’ll be out this industry.
Taking my 12 years of knowledge and experience with me.
Experience, hard won through 55+ to 120 hours a week working. In a job that frankly plenty on here simply couldn’t do. I already have a 40 minute, 32 mile commute I don’t need to add to that.

I’ve got on the ladder, not at the bottom, but a couple of rungs up, purely as while saving to get on it, I hit that stage of life where kids are only a few years away, so I’ve had to future plan to take that into account. Even with that, the house needs a complete renovation to make it suitable.

There needs to be a good supply of houses for those on the lower end, doing the hard jobs that don’t pay well but are essential to society.

Filling new build housing estates with £200K+ Houses with zero space between them isn’t the answer as they are out of reach.

Spare a thought for those in that position, because one day, we may be the lifeline you need to live your life.

Care work is absolutely the most underpaid work out there, and when you say most people couldn't do it you are 100% correct.
You'd have to be a colossal dimwit or totally devoid of empathy to not get this. Unfortunately there are examples of both within this thread.

[aston80]

NRS said:

It's a lot of help - basically you got subsidised what would be quite a few hundred quid a month at least... if you're in the south east probably closer to £1000? Plus electricity, council tax, heating etc... That's a big financial help, whether you like to pretend it isn't or not.

You're like many people I know from before:

"I got no help from my parents for buying house"
"Well, they did let you live rent free, and you did get to use their car for a bit, which they paid the insurance on... they also took you on holiday with them to xyz..."
"Yes, but that doesn't count..."

Lots of people won't have that help through things like:
Parents are assholes/want to teach their kid to stand on their own two feet.
Parents can't afford an additional adult in the house rent free (for example on benefits, divorce so can't afford the extra bedroom etc).
No jobs of that type in the area so have to move for work (which has been posted lots by those claiming lots of others are lazy... but you can't stay at parents and move to where there is jobs...).

Is a husband deemed to "help" his wife if she doesn't work?

Nope