Does it matter if the high street dies?
Discussion
Online shopping is in the process of transforming shopping. Covid is accelerating the process. Likely a lot of high street shops will close in the next decade. I can see that it could be a loss to city centres because shops bring footfall and lots of other businesses may suffer eg bars, cafes and restaurants. However, on the flip side what do most shops really offer and how much value do they add in the buying process?
Clearly they must add to the cost of stuff you buy because the sales price has to cover the rent, wages and profit (if they make any). Online distributors should have a much lower cost base and assuming sufficient competition in the market should result in lower prices.
From an overall economic perspective the people employed in retail could perhaps be doing something else that is far more productive and value added.
Clearly they must add to the cost of stuff you buy because the sales price has to cover the rent, wages and profit (if they make any). Online distributors should have a much lower cost base and assuming sufficient competition in the market should result in lower prices.
From an overall economic perspective the people employed in retail could perhaps be doing something else that is far more productive and value added.
To me it doesn't matter.. Most stuff I need I get from the internet.. Supermarket is about 2 miles away and the village has 4 local stores, Co-op, Tesco etc, dentist, pharmacy and petrol station, all of which seem to be doing ok..
But I get it that some like the high street and shopping, so it's horses for courses...
But I get it that some like the high street and shopping, so it's horses for courses...
It matters if you work there. Also while online can provide same product its can't replace all the jobs. Not the consumers pronlem of course but it does have an impact. High st store, staff, cleaning staff, security, store displays and branding, small cafes catering for customers, other shops open as big stores attract foot fall. Or faceless warehouse, less staff, no branding, no cafes, less support staff etc.
I think a High Street is still the heart of most small towns and I’d certainly hate to see ours die.
We’ve got a baker, greengrocer, butcher, fishmonger, deli, as well as the obligatory cafes and hairdressers.
Ours may be better than some but at least you can buy fresh produce (okay a bit more expensive than the supermarket) which actually has a bit of flavour to it.
It’s sad that a lot of people especially the newcomers don’t use it more. You can get parked reasonably easily (I know we’re fortunate in that respect ) and even if they spent a tenner each it would make so much difference.
It’s another of those things that you won’t miss till it’s gone.
I was on the committee of the local traders association for years so I’m slightly biased
Gecko1978 said:
It matters if you work there. Also while online can provide same product its can't replace all the jobs. Not the consumers pronlem of course but it does have an impact. High st store, staff, cleaning staff, security, store displays and branding, small cafes catering for customers, other shops open as big stores attract foot fall. Or faceless warehouse, less staff, no branding, no cafes, less support staff etc.
That was my first thought as well - how many jobs will be directly affected and then how many indirectly? Will those people find other jobs?My concern is that once the big boys have gained sufficient traction and market share by getting rid of the high street, then it is likely that prices will increase. Probably less choice as well.
For the last few years, I have made a conscious effort to avoid Amazon and support businesses that have a bricks and mortar presence on the basis of or “use it or lose it’” strategy.
You only realize what you have lost when it is gone and by then it is too late.
Generational shift.
It's like the end of mining, or the end of the city docks. Like any change it will hit those least able to adapt hardest and will be painful. However the High Street cannot compete when you can essentially order direct from the manufacturer online.
Most times we go into town it's the same story, "We can order those for you". Well you know what, I can order them too.
There are bank branches that cost the banks thousands per customer per year because everyone banks online now, so few use the branch as their only means of access.
If I wanted an Airfix model aeroplane (for example) I can drive into town and pick from a limited selection in a shop.
Or I can order direct from Airfix, pick from their entire range and pay exactly the same.
Airfix make a bigger margin, I get what I want.
Am I sad that the 'old shoppe' will eventually close down leaving the owner out of work?
Of course I am, but it's not a charity and times have changed.
My wife doesn't even bother going clothes shopping in town when so many firms offer free returns, so order a selection of outfits, try on at home.
Mull over the purchase and send back what you don't want. The returns are even picked up by the postie now!
Looking at our spending habits in rural Somerset I would say that the Farm Shop, the local garage and the Co-Op are going to do well, convenience and impulse shopping. Town is finished.
It's like the end of mining, or the end of the city docks. Like any change it will hit those least able to adapt hardest and will be painful. However the High Street cannot compete when you can essentially order direct from the manufacturer online.
Most times we go into town it's the same story, "We can order those for you". Well you know what, I can order them too.
There are bank branches that cost the banks thousands per customer per year because everyone banks online now, so few use the branch as their only means of access.
If I wanted an Airfix model aeroplane (for example) I can drive into town and pick from a limited selection in a shop.
Or I can order direct from Airfix, pick from their entire range and pay exactly the same.
Airfix make a bigger margin, I get what I want.
Am I sad that the 'old shoppe' will eventually close down leaving the owner out of work?
Of course I am, but it's not a charity and times have changed.
My wife doesn't even bother going clothes shopping in town when so many firms offer free returns, so order a selection of outfits, try on at home.
Mull over the purchase and send back what you don't want. The returns are even picked up by the postie now!
Looking at our spending habits in rural Somerset I would say that the Farm Shop, the local garage and the Co-Op are going to do well, convenience and impulse shopping. Town is finished.
It does matter due to the amount of employment that is retail based and the ’spin-off’ of that employment (coffee shops, sandwich bars, etc, etc)
But retail has to react. I seriously believe that if retail is still around in 5 years, the concept of paying to park at a shopping centre will be laughed at in a
“They really made you do that?!”
Kind of way
Shopping can’t be just about shopping anymore - they have to incentivise people to get off the sofa and go browsing, rather than arrogantly assuming that there’ll always be enough people who prefer physical shopping to online.
But retail has to react. I seriously believe that if retail is still around in 5 years, the concept of paying to park at a shopping centre will be laughed at in a
“They really made you do that?!”
Kind of way
Shopping can’t be just about shopping anymore - they have to incentivise people to get off the sofa and go browsing, rather than arrogantly assuming that there’ll always be enough people who prefer physical shopping to online.
Muzzer that's exactly right, retail needs a reason to go in rather than online.
As an aside, I actually think that if councils and LGA are sensible they could find the redevelopment of the town centres makes the loss of shops not the death-knell for the ancillary business'.
I don't want to sit outside a bistro in the summer in town as it'll be surrounded by grumpy people rushing around, pushing prams with shopping bags hanging off them.
Imagine how much nicer it would be if those shops were houses, the cafe's and pubs and restaurants colonise the pedestrianised spaces and make it a destination in itself, not just a side show to the last gasp of a Phillip Green style retail conurbation.
As an aside, I actually think that if councils and LGA are sensible they could find the redevelopment of the town centres makes the loss of shops not the death-knell for the ancillary business'.
I don't want to sit outside a bistro in the summer in town as it'll be surrounded by grumpy people rushing around, pushing prams with shopping bags hanging off them.
Imagine how much nicer it would be if those shops were houses, the cafe's and pubs and restaurants colonise the pedestrianised spaces and make it a destination in itself, not just a side show to the last gasp of a Phillip Green style retail conurbation.
Nothing stays the same forever, some smart remodelling and change of use is overdue. We have a very large modern swish Debenhams in our town centre, closed now of course. The building lends itself to an ice skating rink / velodrome / or such like. Older style shops switched to domestic homes.
No, just like it didn’t matter when chain stores killed off the family owned shops. I would be more inclined to support the HS if it was family owned businesses still, but with every town centre and HS being a carbon copy of every where else no I’m kind ok glad we are seeing some churn.
I have three kids and live just outside Oxford. Oxford doesn’t have any toy shops anymore. We have three Harry Potter shops but no toy shops.
We went into Oxford on Monday. Only thing we bought were two pretzels and an ice cream totalling almost as much as the parking charge.
I have three kids and live just outside Oxford. Oxford doesn’t have any toy shops anymore. We have three Harry Potter shops but no toy shops.
We went into Oxford on Monday. Only thing we bought were two pretzels and an ice cream totalling almost as much as the parking charge.
Boringvolvodriver said:
That was my first thought as well - how many jobs will be directly affected and then how many indirectly? Will those people find other jobs?
My concern is that once the big boys have gained sufficient traction and market share by getting rid of the high street, then it is likely that prices will increase. Probably less choice as well.
For the last few years, I have made a conscious effort to avoid Amazon and support businesses that have a bricks and mortar presence on the basis of or “use it or lose it’” strategy.
You only realize what you have lost when it is gone and by then it is too late.
It's too late; the big boys have already got rid of the smaller stores and are now moving in.My concern is that once the big boys have gained sufficient traction and market share by getting rid of the high street, then it is likely that prices will increase. Probably less choice as well.
For the last few years, I have made a conscious effort to avoid Amazon and support businesses that have a bricks and mortar presence on the basis of or “use it or lose it’” strategy.
You only realize what you have lost when it is gone and by then it is too late.
https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-now-operates-seve...
Olivera said:
The high street is in a large part shafted by our antiquated tax system, that is over-taxation of bricks and mortar (e.g. business rates), and vast under-taxation of certain online stores (e.g. Amazon and their UK fulfillment only operation, with sales booked in Luxembourg).
You only pay tax if you make profits. I think many U.K. retail businesses would like to be in the position to pay some tax!Gecko1978 said:
It matters if you work there. Also while online can provide same product its can't replace all the jobs. Not the consumers pronlem of course but it does have an impact. High st store, staff, cleaning staff, security, store displays and branding, small cafes catering for customers, other shops open as big stores attract foot fall. Or faceless warehouse, less staff, no branding, no cafes, less support staff etc.
But are they “good” jobs? Most retail jobs add very little value. That wasn’t necessarily true in the past when a well trained shop assistant could advise you on your purchase. However nowadays you can do your research online and get feedback from people who have actually purchased what you want to buy. More relevant and free. Online usually offers more choice too.
Of course, only good news if growth in the economy means that people made redundant from retail can be retrained/redeployed. If they just become more call centre employees or do McJobs then no gain.
Looking forward the U.K. employment age population is going to shrink (absent immigration) so reducing the number of people in retail probably a good thing.
Making city centres more focused on living rather than shopping probably a good idea too. Just need to ensure that some of the space freed up can be used for parks and public areas to make life in the city more pleasant.
Esceptico said:
You only pay tax if you make profits. I think many U.K. retail businesses would like to be in the position to pay some tax!
They still pay (at least) NI, PAYE, VAT and Business Rates even if they don't make a profit.This is the antiquated tax regime I was referring to: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-55971003
Amazon's total 2021 Business Rate's bill is estimated at £71.5m on sales of ~£26.5b. Topshop's (Arcadia) business rates bill is estimated at £91m, on perhaps (at best) £2bn of sales.
Esceptico said:
Making city centres more focused on living rather than shopping probably a good idea too. Just need to ensure that some of the space freed up can be used for parks and public areas to make life in the city more pleasant.
If you take the shopping away and add housing, what’s the draw? I can drive to 5 (off the top of my head...prob more) out of town Costa/Starbucks, not to mention a bazillion other brands, quicker than I can drive to my nearest city centre. With out the draw of shopping or banking, why would I bother? PBCD said:
Esceptico said:
From an overall economic perspective the people employed in retail could perhaps be doing something else that is far more productive and value added.
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