Does it matter if the high street dies?
Discussion
JagLover said:
Byker28i said:
Swindon has screwed up it's town center, not least by making it difficult to drive into and park, and the constant development of out of town centers. The two new carparks in the center are blighted by the route you have to drive to get to them if coming in around the ring road, effectively looping around the Halfrauds roundabout and they demolished the bus center carpark. T
hen by allowing the outlet center to be built close to it taking away any real trade. The larger shops started pulling out as people didn't go in. Then as it's owned by a private development company, it's had little investment. I can't honestly think of any shops I need to go into there for, not even for christmas shopping.
It was suggested they ran a free land train between the outlet and the town center, using the old workers tunnel, but they turned this down. Parents would have used it for the ride just as entertainment for the kids, but it would have taken people into the center.
There are three roads out of West Swindon which all join the same road (especially as one has been blocked for non existant road works now for almost two years). Add to that the rat run through from North Swindon developments and it makes the traffic a real problem a lot of the time. Then there's the M4/Whichelstowe expansion to add to it thats shortly going to expand rapidly
The best thing about Swindon now is it's location and the ability to get out of it quickly to other places
Well that and you can still buy a decent house in a decent area without selling a kidney. hen by allowing the outlet center to be built close to it taking away any real trade. The larger shops started pulling out as people didn't go in. Then as it's owned by a private development company, it's had little investment. I can't honestly think of any shops I need to go into there for, not even for christmas shopping.
It was suggested they ran a free land train between the outlet and the town center, using the old workers tunnel, but they turned this down. Parents would have used it for the ride just as entertainment for the kids, but it would have taken people into the center.
There are three roads out of West Swindon which all join the same road (especially as one has been blocked for non existant road works now for almost two years). Add to that the rat run through from North Swindon developments and it makes the traffic a real problem a lot of the time. Then there's the M4/Whichelstowe expansion to add to it thats shortly going to expand rapidly
The best thing about Swindon now is it's location and the ability to get out of it quickly to other places
Re the town centre it doesn't really bother me as I don't often need to visit. If there were things there to visit and I could drive in easily and park up then that might be a slightly different story of course.
Just got back from dropping my youngest goddaughter (13) back home after she went to the shopping centre with four mates this afternoon.
It's the first time she's been out properly somewhere that isn't school for over a year. Visits to Primark, New Look, Starbucks and McDs. What else could a teenage girl want?
She was absolutely beaming about the whole thing and wouldn't stop babbling about her day during the 15 minute drive home. They're already planning their next shopping trip.
There's still a market left for some aspects of the High Street.
It's the first time she's been out properly somewhere that isn't school for over a year. Visits to Primark, New Look, Starbucks and McDs. What else could a teenage girl want?
She was absolutely beaming about the whole thing and wouldn't stop babbling about her day during the 15 minute drive home. They're already planning their next shopping trip.
There's still a market left for some aspects of the High Street.
rxe said:
roger.mellie said:
Lol , a solution looking for a problem.
Never used them, I'm so neanderthal I often end up getting the shop workers to swipe my goods through the self checkout, but I normally have a good bit of fun talking to them at the same time.
I have no comprehension of why anyone would physically go to a supermarket anymore. What an utter waste of a morning. Everyone there is essentially saying “I have nothing better to do with my life than wander round Tesco”. , a solution looking for a problem.Never used them, I'm so neanderthal I often end up getting the shop workers to swipe my goods through the self checkout, but I normally have a good bit of fun talking to them at the same time.
The argument you get “fresher fruit” or whatever us utterly bogus, we’ be used Ocado pretty much since launch, and we’ve never had anything that has not been to spec. Some stuff has been broken or missed, but that is refunded instantly.
Your comprehension isn't required but your lack of it is a problem.
I'll not bother on the fresh fruit straw man as not sure a single person on this thread has raised that as a reason for defending the high street.
I can play this game too. What are you offering other than sterile town centres that are basically employee car parks?
skinnyman said:
These people with the answer of "simply walk or cycle to the shops" clearly dont have children. A 10 minute walk for an adult becomes a mammoth military operation when you throw a 3yr old & 6yr old into the mix. If going anywhere as a family, regardless of where it is, travelling by car is the better option 99.99% of the time
Two now teenage kids - and for the majority of their up to secondary school lives we were a one car family, and I was using it away with work as my better half didn't have a license... Even at weekends - we walked, as I was enough of a selfish b
d to have a 2 seater.I really do struggle to understand why suddenly parenting has become so difficult and requiring every form of aid and accessory possible.
Although through her experience, she reckons she developed a winning idea - a pushchair mounted brolly for the pusher!
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
These people with the answer of "simply walk or cycle to the shops" clearly dont have children. A 10 minute walk for an adult becomes a mammoth military operation when you throw a 3yr old & 6yr old into the mix. If going anywhere as a family, regardless of where it is, travelling by car is the better option 99.99% of the time
Two now teenage kids - and for the majority of their up to secondary school lives we were a one car family, and I was using it away with work as my better half didn't have a license... Even at weekends - we walked, as I was enough of a selfish bd to have a 2 seater.I really do struggle to understand why suddenly parenting has become so difficult and requiring every form of aid and accessory possible.
Although through her experience, she reckons she developed a winning idea - a pushchair mounted brolly for the pusher!
There are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
skinnyman said:
I COULD walk the family into town, but why would I? I have a car.
There are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
I agree. You may fancy using the shops as an excuse for a family walk on a sunny SaturdayThere are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
Far cry from a mandatory slog when you have no alternative, of course.
skinnyman said:
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
These people with the answer of "simply walk or cycle to the shops" clearly dont have children. A 10 minute walk for an adult becomes a mammoth military operation when you throw a 3yr old & 6yr old into the mix. If going anywhere as a family, regardless of where it is, travelling by car is the better option 99.99% of the time
Two now teenage kids - and for the majority of their up to secondary school lives we were a one car family, and I was using it away with work as my better half didn't have a license... Even at weekends - we walked, as I was enough of a selfish bd to have a 2 seater.I really do struggle to understand why suddenly parenting has become so difficult and requiring every form of aid and accessory possible.
Although through her experience, she reckons she developed a winning idea - a pushchair mounted brolly for the pusher!
There are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
We're a nation of generally fat b
ds who do significantly less physical movement activity than we really should - one of the reasons I have liked walking my entire life is because I learnt to enjoy it doing it as a young child without any option.It's creating great habits for the future - and even as a kid growing up in West London there were loads of opportunities for learning/exploration/play whilst on 'functional' trips.
There's also the point that it can be great quality interaction time with the kids without distractions - instead of silently driving with the radio on and the kids watching YouTube on tablets as seems the norm now.
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
These people with the answer of "simply walk or cycle to the shops" clearly dont have children. A 10 minute walk for an adult becomes a mammoth military operation when you throw a 3yr old & 6yr old into the mix. If going anywhere as a family, regardless of where it is, travelling by car is the better option 99.99% of the time
Two now teenage kids - and for the majority of their up to secondary school lives we were a one car family, and I was using it away with work as my better half didn't have a license... Even at weekends - we walked, as I was enough of a selfish bd to have a 2 seater.I really do struggle to understand why suddenly parenting has become so difficult and requiring every form of aid and accessory possible.
Although through her experience, she reckons she developed a winning idea - a pushchair mounted brolly for the pusher!
There are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
We're a nation of generally fat b
ds who do significantly less physical movement activity than we really should - one of the reasons I have liked walking my entire life is because I learnt to enjoy it doing it as a young child without any option.It's creating great habits for the future - and even as a kid growing up in West London there were loads of opportunities for learning/exploration/play whilst on 'functional' trips.
There's also the point that it can be great quality interaction time with the kids without distractions - instead of silently driving with the radio on and the kids watching YouTube on tablets as seems the norm now.
That's a lot of 'our' collective issue though.
Instead of normal, routine levels of decent movement and activity - we end up not walking or cycling in order to do things we need to do, and then go for 'bike rides' or 'walking days' as though they're some separate event from daily life...
Plus of course, I can just imagine how many "walking days" occur over winter.
Sometimes I despair at how fundamentally lazy and 'princess' like we've become. We're drowning in decadence when those around us who aren't so avoiding of some pretty damned minor challenges get their heads down and crack on.
Instead of normal, routine levels of decent movement and activity - we end up not walking or cycling in order to do things we need to do, and then go for 'bike rides' or 'walking days' as though they're some separate event from daily life...
Plus of course, I can just imagine how many "walking days" occur over winter.
Sometimes I despair at how fundamentally lazy and 'princess' like we've become. We're drowning in decadence when those around us who aren't so avoiding of some pretty damned minor challenges get their heads down and crack on.
Edited by Sway on Wednesday 14th April 18:24
Sway said:
Because it's also actually good for the kids?
We're a nation of generally fat bds who do significantly less physical movement activity than we really should - one of the reasons I have liked walking my entire life is because I learnt to enjoy it doing it as a young child without any option.
It's creating great habits for the future - and even as a kid growing up in West London there were loads of opportunities for learning/exploration/play whilst on 'functional' trips.
There's also the point that it can be great quality interaction time with the kids without distractions - instead of silently driving with the radio on and the kids watching YouTube on tablets as seems the norm now.
That is a very good post.We're a nation of generally fat b
ds who do significantly less physical movement activity than we really should - one of the reasons I have liked walking my entire life is because I learnt to enjoy it doing it as a young child without any option.It's creating great habits for the future - and even as a kid growing up in West London there were loads of opportunities for learning/exploration/play whilst on 'functional' trips.
There's also the point that it can be great quality interaction time with the kids without distractions - instead of silently driving with the radio on and the kids watching YouTube on tablets as seems the norm now.
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
Sway said:
skinnyman said:
These people with the answer of "simply walk or cycle to the shops" clearly dont have children. A 10 minute walk for an adult becomes a mammoth military operation when you throw a 3yr old & 6yr old into the mix. If going anywhere as a family, regardless of where it is, travelling by car is the better option 99.99% of the time
Two now teenage kids - and for the majority of their up to secondary school lives we were a one car family, and I was using it away with work as my better half didn't have a license... Even at weekends - we walked, as I was enough of a selfish bd to have a 2 seater.I really do struggle to understand why suddenly parenting has become so difficult and requiring every form of aid and accessory possible.
Although through her experience, she reckons she developed a winning idea - a pushchair mounted brolly for the pusher!
There are many many tasks in life that I could purposefully make more difficult for myself, but why would anyone want to do that?
We're a nation of generally fat b
ds who do significantly less physical movement activity than we really should - one of the reasons I have liked walking my entire life is because I learnt to enjoy it doing it as a young child without any option.It's creating great habits for the future - and even as a kid growing up in West London there were loads of opportunities for learning/exploration/play whilst on 'functional' trips.
There's also the point that it can be great quality interaction time with the kids without distractions - instead of silently driving with the radio on and the kids watching YouTube on tablets as seems the norm now.
d, my wife and most of her family wouldn't have a clue what being overweight means, we run 20-30 mile a week and there's not a question on this planet more likely to get me angry than someone asking my wife why she's out exercising when she has no weight to lose, partly because it regularly happens and I end up not making friends..Sway said:
That's a lot of 'our' collective issue though.
Instead of normal, routine levels of decent movement and activity - we end up not walking or cycling in order to do things we need to do, and then go for 'bike rides' or 'walking days' as though they're some separate event from daily life...
Indeed. You make another very good point. Instead of normal, routine levels of decent movement and activity - we end up not walking or cycling in order to do things we need to do, and then go for 'bike rides' or 'walking days' as though they're some separate event from daily life...
Activity should be a normal part of life, not just something that is put into the calendar for a week next Saturday, and done only in a National Park half an hour or more away.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 14th April 18:49
As has likely already been mentioned, it matters, largely because the rates keep the council afloat.
Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
roger.mellie said:
If I thought social interaction was unnecessary I'd agree with you, guess what? I don't think it's unnecessary.
Your comprehension isn't required but your lack of it is a problem.
I'll not bother on the fresh fruit straw man as not sure a single person on this thread has raised that as a reason for defending the high street.
I can play this game too. What are you offering other than sterile town centres that are basically employee car parks?
You go to the supermarket for social interaction, don’t you have any real friends? Of all the things that have chafed during lockdown, not being able to see my friends has been number 1. Not being able to go to shop for some sort of human companionship hasn’t registered.Your comprehension isn't required but your lack of it is a problem.
I'll not bother on the fresh fruit straw man as not sure a single person on this thread has raised that as a reason for defending the high street.
I can play this game too. What are you offering other than sterile town centres that are basically employee car parks?
What’s my plan? I don’t have one, because the collapse is inevitable. Probably flatten the lot and turn it into retirement housing.
Previous said:
As has likely already been mentioned, it matters, largely because the rates keep the council afloat.
Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
Is it a good idea to tax a new and very successful business model with the prime purpose of subsidising a failing business model?Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
Previous said:
....
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance....
Or take away the advantage by reducing business rates in town centres...Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance....
We need to find better ways of taxing businesses. We need to be more honest about who actually pays these taxes and figure out what our objectives are.
We're (largely) social animals, so methods of providing for that have to be desirable. I'm sure people mingling in "high streets" has benefits for health, though suspect these would be nigh on impossible to prove. Getting into a mode where everything can be done from your sofa with zero interaction with human being may be desirable at times. but I'm sure it's not healthy long term.
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