Does it matter if the high street dies?
Discussion
Previous said:
As has likely already been mentioned, it matters, largely because the rates keep the council afloat.
Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
We already have a sales tax - 20% VAT - that is already far too high so I don’t see the justification for yet more taxes just to prop up failing shops. Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
I think parking charges helped to kill the High Street.
Why would I want to pay £2 or £3 an hour to park when I could park for free in an "out of town" retail park? Especially when buying a large TV or a stereo that you really don't want to carry further than you have to.
I don't think I have been to a "High Street" for over a decade - they just don't work for a car owner.
Why would I want to pay £2 or £3 an hour to park when I could park for free in an "out of town" retail park? Especially when buying a large TV or a stereo that you really don't want to carry further than you have to.
I don't think I have been to a "High Street" for over a decade - they just don't work for a car owner.
It’s usually not that hard to find free parking if you go a little further out. There are a few towns close to where I used to live which are doing £1 discs that provide fee parking for 2 or 3 hours in designated car parks. That was a great scheme.
It is amazing how few people walk even short distances though. Britain is a fat country now so I suspect the amount of walking is only going to decline.
It is amazing how few people walk even short distances though. Britain is a fat country now so I suspect the amount of walking is only going to decline.
One thing that is surprising me is quite how frequently people seem to buy a 'flat screen TV' (do we still need that qualifier? Haven't seen a crt TV for nearly two decades!)...
I feel like I must be depriving my family of the opportunity to add another TV to their wall on a weekly basis.
I feel like I must be depriving my family of the opportunity to add another TV to their wall on a weekly basis.
The high street was already f
ked 10 years ago as far as I'm concerned.
I live in a small village with some shops, but all the essential stuff & high street big boys are 3 or 4 miles away in town. Parking was made ridiculously expensive over the past years, then they widened the pavements for no apparent reason, thus deleting hundreds of parking spaces, & rolled out a zero tolerance private parking enforcement company.
If I really need something, I'll drive on Sunday morning when it's free to park. Everything else online.
Perhaps our glorious forward thinking councils should do an experiment: suspend all parking restrictions for a couple of weeks & see what happens. I wager there would be a big increase in business. It'll never happen of course....
ked 10 years ago as far as I'm concerned.I live in a small village with some shops, but all the essential stuff & high street big boys are 3 or 4 miles away in town. Parking was made ridiculously expensive over the past years, then they widened the pavements for no apparent reason, thus deleting hundreds of parking spaces, & rolled out a zero tolerance private parking enforcement company.
If I really need something, I'll drive on Sunday morning when it's free to park. Everything else online.
Perhaps our glorious forward thinking councils should do an experiment: suspend all parking restrictions for a couple of weeks & see what happens. I wager there would be a big increase in business. It'll never happen of course....
Biker 1 said:
The high street was already fked 10 years ago as far as I'm concerned.
I live in a small village with some shops, but all the essential stuff & high street big boys are 3 or 4 miles away in town. Parking was made ridiculously expensive over the past years, then they widened the pavements for no apparent reason, thus deleting hundreds of parking spaces, & rolled out a zero tolerance private parking enforcement company.
If I really need something, I'll drive on Sunday morning when it's free to park. Everything else online.
Perhaps our glorious forward thinking councils should do an experiment: suspend all parking restrictions for a couple of weeks & see what happens. I wager there would be a big increase in business. It'll never happen of course....
That has been tried more than once, I'd suggest you don't wager too much even if it the results can be a case of selection bias in action ked 10 years ago as far as I'm concerned.I live in a small village with some shops, but all the essential stuff & high street big boys are 3 or 4 miles away in town. Parking was made ridiculously expensive over the past years, then they widened the pavements for no apparent reason, thus deleting hundreds of parking spaces, & rolled out a zero tolerance private parking enforcement company.
If I really need something, I'll drive on Sunday morning when it's free to park. Everything else online.
Perhaps our glorious forward thinking councils should do an experiment: suspend all parking restrictions for a couple of weeks & see what happens. I wager there would be a big increase in business. It'll never happen of course....
, one link on a quick google although it's not the example I was thinking of - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2014553.par...gregs656 said:
It’s usually not that hard to find free parking if you go a little further out. There are a few towns close to where I used to live which are doing £1 discs that provide fee parking for 2 or 3 hours in designated car parks. That was a great scheme.
It is amazing how few people walk even short distances though. Britain is a fat country now so I suspect the amount of walking is only going to decline.
Good point about parking slightly further away. It is amazing how few people walk even short distances though. Britain is a fat country now so I suspect the amount of walking is only going to decline.
The point was made (and confirmed by various others) earlier that often even the people who do exercise or take part in physical activity seem to compartmentalise it, rather than just incorporate activity into daily life.
People who drive to the gym to run or walk(!) on a treadmill, use a cross trainer or static bike (unless they have a very specific training need) epitomise this approach.
As above, British people are, on the whole, not in good physical (and often not good mental) condition (and no, looking like Mens Health models isn't required), and some of attitudes in this thread partly explain why.
Johnnytheboy said:
I don't know if it's a peculiarly British trait to not like being told what to do.
If you want me to drive somewhere, just try and discourage me. That'll do it.
Is that also why so many people drive their children to the local school, sit with their engines running outside the school gates, throw litter, booze heavily, eat crap, are obese and often miserable?If you want me to drive somewhere, just try and discourage me. That'll do it.
MC Bodge said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I don't know if it's a peculiarly British trait to not like being told what to do.
If you want me to drive somewhere, just try and discourage me. That'll do it.
Is that also why so many people drive their children to the local school, sit with their engines running outside the school gates, throw litter, booze heavily, eat crap, are obese and often miserable?If you want me to drive somewhere, just try and discourage me. That'll do it.
Guess whose kids are often seen out cycling or playing out.
Take a guess whose kids look pasty and unhealthy.
Taking into account shopping and work I think I cycle @30 miles a week and probably walk the same or more.
At 49 I'm under ten stone and still have a suit I bought when 18, I think I only keep it to see if it fits though as it is hardly fashionable now.
I think I went to the gym twice when my stepdaughter bought me a trial membership, ugh.
Like swimming though.
Very few people I work with can keep up with me, I did however grow up in the countryside where the nearest shop was over a mile away, so perhaps just lucky.
Johnnytheboy said:
There was a town in Wales that did that inadvertently and it was chaos. 
My approach would be have pay parking for long stays but lots of enforced 30 minute free parking.
That is what would get people like me off shopping online.
Cardigan? During the first lockdown reopening which coincided with the tourist season, they shut the high street and diverted all the traffic through the narrow streets instead, which passed by two main car parks. They did this so that they could use th ehigh street for social distancing, allowed the few cafes to put seating outside.My approach would be have pay parking for long stays but lots of enforced 30 minute free parking.
That is what would get people like me off shopping online.
Instead of occasional traffic these tiny roads were really busy, so obviously the residents weren't happy Then they kept it like that and the local shop owners all said it ruined trade as people stayed away.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/card...
https://www.tivysideadvertiser.co.uk/news/18915260...
High street near me was dying 10 years ago as rates and parking charges increased. They then allowed a massive tesco at the end of the high street (town already had a Sainsbury’s and M&S at that point.
M&S has now gone and the high street consists of charity shops, coffee shops, nail places and barbers (cash only, many owned by the same family, nothing to see here...)
It’s just not viable for local, independent shops to trade is places like this. Add in bluewater which is 15mins away and there is little incentive to visit that town.
I only go there now for a haircut (the barber I use is the oldest business in the town and only survives through loyal custom)
M&S has now gone and the high street consists of charity shops, coffee shops, nail places and barbers (cash only, many owned by the same family, nothing to see here...)
It’s just not viable for local, independent shops to trade is places like this. Add in bluewater which is 15mins away and there is little incentive to visit that town.
I only go there now for a haircut (the barber I use is the oldest business in the town and only survives through loyal custom)
Our county mostly has 90 minutes free parking on the High Streets.
This stops all day parking and encourages a turn around in shoppers. 90 minutes is usually ample time to get whatever you want and means you can pop downtown and pick up the odd item without paying for parking.
Before the parking was regulated you couldn’t find a space for love nor money. If it wasn’t residents parking all day it was bank workers or even shop workers and owners (who then complained about no footfall)
It seems a much better system now.
Pembrokes got an hours parking down the high street as free for those that pop in, They have free weekends in December on all car parks.
However they've just significantly raised the prices, because:
CAR parking charges have been increased in all Pembrokeshire County Council car parks.
The decision to increase charges was made by Cabinet members in March 2020 with the aim of maintaining and improving parking facilities for residents and visitors.
The review included recommendations to roll out cashless parking payments, protect the future of public toilets situated in car parks, bring in an enhanced maintenance regime and establish a capital reserve to enable investment.
https://www.milfordmercury.co.uk/news/18711981.par...
It's part of the ways of topping up the reserves they drew from last year during the lockdown and the reduced income. They are also talking of doubling the second home premium to 100% extra.
However they've just significantly raised the prices, because:
CAR parking charges have been increased in all Pembrokeshire County Council car parks.
The decision to increase charges was made by Cabinet members in March 2020 with the aim of maintaining and improving parking facilities for residents and visitors.
The review included recommendations to roll out cashless parking payments, protect the future of public toilets situated in car parks, bring in an enhanced maintenance regime and establish a capital reserve to enable investment.
https://www.milfordmercury.co.uk/news/18711981.par...
It's part of the ways of topping up the reserves they drew from last year during the lockdown and the reduced income. They are also talking of doubling the second home premium to 100% extra.
stitched said:
Four Litre said:
Johnnytheboy said:
You're looking through the inevitable-for-PH-these-days argument abut why we don't walk/cycle to the shops through the wrong end of the telescope.
One of the reasons the high street is dying is because we are being so strongly encouraged to do so.
I don't look at the high street then bemoan the fact I can't easily drive and park there.
I either shop online or drive somewhere more welcoming.
The main reason people don't want to walk or cycle is time. I don't want to go to the shops, so why would I want to make it take longer. Its wasting my time. Same as getting a bus or train. Why would I want to stand at a bus stop or train station hanging about when I could be doing something I enjoy with what time I have left at the end of the week, which isn't much. One of the reasons the high street is dying is because we are being so strongly encouraged to do so.
I don't look at the high street then bemoan the fact I can't easily drive and park there.
I either shop online or drive somewhere more welcoming.
I'm very much into fitness and I don't class a walk to the shops as something I would enjoy. And nobody mention getting a f
king bus please or park and ride!!Chester is a nice place to visit IMO, the easiest way into the centre, unless you can afford the city centre hotels, is the park and ride facility.
You park up and every half hour a bus arrives to take you in, or out.
The charges last time I was there were about a pound.
So really, what is the issue?
Four Litre said:
stitched said:
Four Litre said:
Johnnytheboy said:
You're looking through the inevitable-for-PH-these-days argument abut why we don't walk/cycle to the shops through the wrong end of the telescope.
One of the reasons the high street is dying is because we are being so strongly encouraged to do so.
I don't look at the high street then bemoan the fact I can't easily drive and park there.
I either shop online or drive somewhere more welcoming.
The main reason people don't want to walk or cycle is time. I don't want to go to the shops, so why would I want to make it take longer. Its wasting my time. Same as getting a bus or train. Why would I want to stand at a bus stop or train station hanging about when I could be doing something I enjoy with what time I have left at the end of the week, which isn't much. One of the reasons the high street is dying is because we are being so strongly encouraged to do so.
I don't look at the high street then bemoan the fact I can't easily drive and park there.
I either shop online or drive somewhere more welcoming.
I'm very much into fitness and I don't class a walk to the shops as something I would enjoy. And nobody mention getting a f
king bus please or park and ride!!Chester is a nice place to visit IMO, the easiest way into the centre, unless you can afford the city centre hotels, is the park and ride facility.
You park up and every half hour a bus arrives to take you in, or out.
The charges last time I was there were about a pound.
So really, what is the issue?
I don't feel the need to inflict city dwellers with my car or bike preferences.
I find those who insist on driving to city centres generally selfish and arrogant.
Esceptico said:
Previous said:
As has likely already been mentioned, it matters, largely because the rates keep the council afloat.
Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
We already have a sales tax - 20% VAT - that is already far too high so I don’t see the justification for yet more taxes just to prop up failing shops. Those rates, tax in any other name, are taxes which the online players don't have to pay.
This is part of the price difference of bricks and mortar vs online (but not all of it).
Personally I believe an online sales tax is needed to provide some balance. Yes its not fair taxing the consumer directly, but that's who'd pay it anyway ultimately, plus easy to administer at point of sale to minimise avoidance.
Of course, central govt won't want to that due to the perception of raising taxes, and that the local councils would benefit so little political capital, so for now we'll just carry on on the same old merry go round watching store after store go to the wall and council taxes rise.
What do councils provide that we need (social housing, care in the community, parks and recreation etc). Once the needs are paid for what is left?
Sway said:
One thing that is surprising me is quite how frequently people seem to buy a 'flat screen TV' (do we still need that qualifier? Haven't seen a crt TV for nearly two decades!)...
I feel like I must be depriving my family of the opportunity to add another TV to their wall on a weekly basis.
I think its just a standard example of where the car is better. But your right I don't by a tv often. I do buy 24 pack of coke zero, large bags of rice, pasta, 4ltr bottles of milk, washing powder, dog food etc all quite bulky items that are easy to wheel in a trolly to the car rather than lug up the hill home.I feel like I must be depriving my family of the opportunity to add another TV to their wall on a weekly basis.
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