Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 7)
Discussion
Condi said:
The UK has already said they want to move away from EU food and farming regulations, and also agree a FTA with the USA and Australia to name 2 which have very different farming practices and certainly in the case of the US use methods and chemicals banned here and in the EU.
Chances of EU accepting an equivalence deal when the UK are trying desperately to sign agreements with countries from which the EU don't import many food products = 0.
You're conflating two things.Chances of EU accepting an equivalence deal when the UK are trying desperately to sign agreements with countries from which the EU don't import many food products = 0.
We could indeed gain equivalence, whilst making trade deals with other nations. The key, is that a FTA does not mean one party adopts the practices or materials used by the other. The crucial element is our internal SPS controls and monitoring.
If that is equivalent, it is equivalent. Signing equivalence does not mean that it's permanent irrespective of any changes internally.
Oh, the US exported $10Bn of agri products to the EU27 in 2019...
However, do I think it's likely? No - the EU (as we've seen, and have the Swiss) don't like to sign equivalence when it wants control. However, it absolutely is a pragmatic and entirely possible solution - that also protects EU food sales to GB. Nearly half Irish beef production... God knows how much Eastern European chicken/pork...
turbobloke said:
Condi said:
Sway said:
- SPS equivalence deal
Chances of EU accepting an equivalence deal when the UK are trying desperately to sign agreements with countries from which the EU don't import many food products = 0.
A solution to the NI issue would have been to red line all the way through negotiations that free trade within the UK was non-negotiable. We wouldn't put a Eire hard border in but if the EU chose to, that was its choice and it would have to account to the people over it. What were the EU going to do? They couldn't stop us leaving and they couldn't make us build a hard border. Let them have the tough choices.
The fudge was, like all fudges, kicking the can down the road.
The fudge was, like all fudges, kicking the can down the road.
Sway said:
Electro1980 said:
I think that answers the question it leaves me with, but I’ll ask it anyway. This is an Internet forum. You answer in a text box. You are not limited to those replies. You could write anything you wanted. What “left field” or “pragmatic” options are there? There are only 5 choices that I can see, the above three, rejoining the EU, which I assumed you would be against, and extending the transition period, which isn’t really an answer, just kicking it in to the long grass.
- SPS equivalence deal
- Goods permitted under the 'no risk of entry' mechanisms, if necessary marked with "not for sale in RoI"
- heath cert forms updated to have the tick box for fresh meat/frozen chicken/seeds, with attendant operator licencing and applicable phytosanitary checks (if necessary, with enhanced testing of animals prior to slaughter)
What I absolutely don't want to see, however if the EU do not budge is exactly what will happen, is a replacement of prepared meat crossing the Irish Sea with live animals being shipped purely for slaughter within a 'different' SPS jurisdiction.
Electro1980 said:
So, you are resorting to attacking my spelling because, as I am dyslexic, I struggle with homophones? Very clever of you 
A passing comment, which I acknowledged was being pedantic.. my apologies for any offense caused, but thankfully you didn't use it as an excuse to ignore the point.Electro1980 said:
I think that answers the question it leaves me with, but I’ll ask it anyway. This is an Internet forum. You answer in a text box. You are not limited to those replies. You could write anything you wanted. What “left field” or “pragmatic” options are there? There are only 5 choices that I can see, the above three, rejoining the EU, which I assumed you would be against, and extending the transition period, which isn’t really an answer, just kicking it in to the long grass.
Dyslexia or not, I don't see why I should be doing your homework for you. As it is, I note that Sway has listed three additional options, and there have been a few more mooted. It's pretty clear that the same people who utterly opposed Brexit are taking every political advantage they can of an entirely political problem. There were long, technical discussions over the last five years over the issues with committing to regulatory alignment - yet these are being magically ignored as the same faces think they've found a way to 'undo' a portion of Brexit. If nothing else it demonstrates how little has been learned in the face of this government's behaviour over the last few years - behaviour that is dismissed (liars! cheats!) rather than understood.
Electro1980 said:
So your answer to avoiding a hard border is, um, having a hard border? Equivalence would still require checks, just less of them.
Moving animals within the UK requires checks and declarations.Equivalence means that the normal internal controls and checks are deemed sufficient - no additional controls.
Let's not forget, these are goods that are not being sold or shipped to any EU nation.
Tuna said:
Dyslexia or not, I don't see why I should be doing your homework for you. As it is, I note that Sway has listed three additional options, and there have been a few more mooted.
It’s not my homework. I presented what I believe are the fundamental options, it’s up to you to show I’m wrong, not me to “do homework”. You are the one that said there were other options. I don’t see that any given fall outside the options I have listed.Looks like Boris Johnson is going to hold a press conference at 6pm tonight on easing Covid-19 restrictions, 2 and a half before this statement is going to be made in parliament by the Health Secretary..! Major policy announcements/changes are supposed to be voiced to Parliament first and foremost. This has made the House of Commons speaker pretty angry and is determined to speak to the Prime Minister about Parliament being misled amongst other protocol failings.....
Kier Starmer appears to be backing Frost and co.:
Starmer said:
Having checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not the way forward. Having any checks between the Republic and Northern Ireland is absolutely not the way forward so we’re going to have to make progress. There’s probably going to gave to be flexibility on both sides as ever.
CeramicMX5ND2 said:
Looks like Boris Johnson is going to hold a press conference at 6pm tonight on easing Covid-19 restrictions, 2 and a half before this statement is going to be made in parliament by the Health Secretary..! Major policy announcements/changes are supposed to be voiced to Parliament first and foremost. This has made the House of Commons speaker pretty angry and is determined to speak to the Prime Minister about Parliament being misled amongst other protocol failings.....
Much the same as Sturgeon's press briefings on Covid.CeramicMX5ND2 said:
Looks like Boris Johnson is going to hold a press conference at 6pm tonight on easing Covid-19 restrictions, 2 and a half before this statement is going to be made in parliament by the Health Secretary..! Major policy announcements/changes are supposed to be voiced to Parliament first and foremost. This has made the House of Commons speaker pretty angry and is determined to speak to the Prime Minister about Parliament being misled amongst other protocol failings.....
he makes the rules up as he goes along. Electro1980 said:
It’s not my homework. I presented what I believe are the fundamental options, it’s up to you to show I’m wrong, not me to “do homework”. You are the one that said there were other options. I don’t see that any given fall outside the options I have listed.
"I see no ships"... seriously? Sway listed three valid additional options and yet you're still claiming the Remainer choices are the only ones that exist?The Spruce Goose said:
CeramicMX5ND2 said:
Looks like Boris Johnson is going to hold a press conference at 6pm tonight on easing Covid-19 restrictions, 2 and a half before this statement is going to be made in parliament by the Health Secretary..! Major policy announcements/changes are supposed to be voiced to Parliament first and foremost. This has made the House of Commons speaker pretty angry and is determined to speak to the Prime Minister about Parliament being misled amongst other protocol failings.....
he makes the rules up as he goes along. Maximus Decimus Meridius said:
Just watched the 6pm press conference. Is Johnson still half cut following the festivities at the G7 ?
29 July for freedom day, apparently
Everyone in "the company" should be vaccinated ...
Much mumbling, much waffling, he came across as even more inept than usual.
19th!29 July for freedom day, apparently
Everyone in "the company" should be vaccinated ...
Much mumbling, much waffling, he came across as even more inept than usual.
Looked like he was pretty pissed off about it to me, which is understandable.
Not a speech he wanted to give.
Thankfully we have a world class vaccination program.
We all see different things I guess?
digimeistter said:
Not a speech he wanted to give.
Thankfully we have a world class vaccination program.
We all see different things I guess?
Perhaps he should have sorted the borders out when the Delta variant as known about, rather than leaving it for 15 days in an attempt not to pThankfully we have a world class vaccination program.
We all see different things I guess?
s off Modi in regards to his Brexst trade deal.APontus said:
A solution to the NI issue would have been to red line all the way through negotiations that free trade within the UK was non-negotiable. We wouldn't put a Eire hard border in but if the EU chose to, that was its choice and it would have to account to the people over it. What were the EU going to do? They couldn't stop us leaving and they couldn't make us build a hard border. Let them have the tough choices.
The fudge was, like all fudges, kicking the can down the road.
Hmm, I recall the creation of a boarder across the island of Ireland as being something that was "non-negotiable" to the EU, and it being decried as the EU "weaponising" Northern Ireland. The fudge was, like all fudges, kicking the can down the road.
Recollections may vary of course, but that would have been pot and kettle x100.
The fact remains (as was pointed out by Barnier) the UK chose to leave the EU, so it was up to the UK to provide solutions to the problem of having part of it's territory next door to a barrier-less customs regime that it didn't want to play along with anymore.
Just saying: "UK free trade is not negotiable, we're not listening, bla bla bla" is why the negotiations took so long: because childish antics don't actually cut it in the world of long trousers, and the negotiators were given the unenviable task of trying to square an impossible circle.
Though I genuinely think Boris thought he could just sign any old wording, "get brexit done", quick photo op, then be free to do whatever he wanted (wrt NI trade) once the fuss died down.
It shows his lack of experience/suitability for the job really (though the options remain poor).
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