CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)

[johnboy1975]

Chris Stott said:

This thread gets ruined by nutters suggesting things like ‘the government is trying to kill people with nasal swabs’... Much like a few, vocal, 5G nutters ruin the credibility of the protest marches.

Going back to animal trials, could we give rats trace amounts of the chemical and see what it does to them over years? (Well speed it up a bit by giving slightly larger doses, obviously there's no point finding out in 2 years time its a very bad idea )

I would suggest "absolutely nothing" is a bit of a stretch.

Caveated with I'm happy (ish) with my kids being tested twice a week whilst we are in the grip of this deadly pandemic () Well from the cancer pov, at least.......

But at some point all the mindless testing has to stop. No one (in power) has even suggested an end date. This winter is looking decidedly shakey.....next spring?

ETA: How long did it take for asbestos dangers to become known?

And noted the diabetic comment: Is that a similar sort of procedure? If so, fair enough (perhaps)

Edited by johnboy1975 on Saturday 12th June 08:31

[The Ferret]

ch37 said:

Euro 2020 final (at Wembley) falls under that window too. If England have a good run we're likely to see widespread and overwhelming disregard for the remaining restrictions.

Edited by ch37 on Saturday 12th June 02:48

I don’t think there’s much for the Govt to worry about in that respect

[Alucidnation]

The Ferret said:

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

The main point of their argument is that the substance has been used for years to sterilise medical equipment, and that’s it’s been tested and is safe to use.

That’s all well and good, but how often do you have a medical procedure that involves coming into contact with it, maybe and handful of times in your entire life? Bit different to stuffing it up your nose on a weekly basis isn’t it?

Being a diabetic, I have come into contact with it over four times a day for the last 40 odd years.

[Digga]

markcoznottz said:

If they had their way, a new way of living. Low carbon, green lifestyle. No gas heating, no dairy, no meat, no foreign holidays, work from home, electric cars that hardly any one can afford. I’m if the opinion that most of the political class view the public as nothing more than an inconvenience. Most of the politicians want some kind of socialist command economy, I doubt they even think much about the little people. A lot of Whitehall share this view, but not all. Won’t be so much fun, when the middle classes go back to an early 80’s standard of living. As far as voting them out……



‘And while it has been widely reported that the coronavirus act will lapse after two years, read it carefully and you’ll see that any part of it can be extended for a further six months – with indefinite renewals possible, without prior parliamentary approval.

The act’s other chilling powers include allowing the government to postpone elections and close borders.’ Vernon Coleman said in one of his early videos ‘there’s been a coup’ . He may eventually be proven right.

This is only slightly wide of the mark. You look at it from the source of the ‘top down’ ethos being Westminster, but rather I think they are merely puppets of a wider, global plan.

I know it sounds ‘OMG DAVOS!’ but as others rightly say, look at the freedoms already surrendered, with barely a murmur. Only history will tell whether this was for the greater good.

[Rollin]

The Ferret said:

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

The main point of their argument is that the substance has been used for years to sterilise medical equipment, and that’s it’s been tested and is safe to use.

That’s all well and good, but how often do you have a medical procedure that involves coming into contact with it, maybe and handful of times in your entire life? Bit different to stuffing it up your nose on a weekly basis isn’t it?

Where does the line get drawn?

X-rays are perfectly safe, but go and ask your GP if it’s a good idea to have one every week and you’ll probably get a different response.

And how can it’s current use be reported and tested and safe. Have they been secretly testing it weekly on kids and monitoring them for side effects years down the line.

Rather than posting a classic insult and confirming what everyone thinks of you, maybe try thinking outside the box occasionally and not just swallowing the Govt sponsored guff every time. The message from them never changes, do you really think they get these things right every time?

The fact is it’s all been rushed, and neither you nor I can guarantee the long term impacts, so how you can dismiss anything as full of **** is beyond me.

Read the FOI...and probably dismiss that too. You display classic conspiracy theorist traits too.

[APontus]

I'm not sure there's any notable conspiracy. The government seem to be in cautious mode and the vaccines (in single dose at least) less effective than we assumed.

I'm more concerned that society has now set a precedent. It will be very easy in future to lock down for all sorts of reasons, the justification being 'protection of society'. Are bad flu seasons going to see restrictions imposed to 'protect the NHS and save lives'? Is the NHS going to continue getting away with being inefficient and incapable of change while the public have to change instead, the tail wagging the dog?

[johnboy1975]

APontus said:

I'm not sure there's any notable conspiracy. The government seem to be in cautious mode and the vaccines (in single dose at least) less effective than we assumed.

I'm more concerned that society has now set a precedent. It will be very easy in future to lock down for all sorts of reasons, the justification being 'protection of society'. Are bad flu seasons going to see restrictions imposed to 'protect the NHS and save lives'? Is the NHS going to continue getting away with being inefficient and incapable of change while the public have to change instead, the tail wagging the dog?

If 1 dose was very effective, the delay would be to jab more 20 somethings. Which actually, is pretty much the net effect of the delay. So if 1 dose isn't effective, what's the point? (Jabbing 20 year olds - who don't in the main suffer anyway - with a vaccine ineffective at 1 dose).

Are we really going to reopen in July, or will they want to 2nd jab the 20 year olds? And first jab the kids to save them from losing time at school next year. But wait! 1 jab isn't enough.......Has this taken us till xmas yet? (No biggie?) Don't worry, 2022 will be different (until the new variant emerges)

[Elysium]

ben5575 said:

Elysium said:

A four fold reduction in the case fatality rate is not enough for them?

If you have 5mins, have a listen to the start of this (which I referenced before): https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wsf0 You might find it interesting.

Worth a listen. Spiegelhalter is very good.

Notable that he was clear that the risk of COVID death was lower than other things for the < 40s.

I agree that there is a race between vaccines and the virus, but we are in a better place than we expected in terms of the exit wave and the law of diminishing returns applies. You can always do a bit better if you delay, but each time we delayed removal of controls in autumn and again now nature gave us a big slap in the face in the form of new variants that largely defeat our plans.

At some point we need to rip the plaster off and get this exit wave done. I see zero reasons why that should not be the 21st June. Delaying to optimise the COVID outcomes without considering the wider impacts of that delay and it’s lawfulness is, in my opinion, foolish and reckless.

[anonymous-user]

APontus said:

I'm not sure there's any notable conspiracy. The government seem to be in cautious mode and the vaccines (in single dose at least) less effective than we assumed.

I'm more concerned that society has now set a precedent. It will be very easy in future to lock down for all sorts of reasons, the justification being 'protection of society'. Are bad flu seasons going to see restrictions imposed to 'protect the NHS and save lives'? Is the NHS going to continue getting away with being inefficient and incapable of change while the public have to change instead, the tail wagging the dog?

Good point made last night by a commentary on the tv that the terrorism laws brought in a long time ago have never been lifted despite not needing them. Taking your shoes off to go through airport security, or having to drink breast milk is still a thing even though there is no real threat (and never really was, more of a pr exercise), snooping on communications is still happening etc.

People are getting honours for advocating lockdowns, they are now accepted as a public health intervention.

Crazy.

[CAH706]

One of the junior ministers as good as said the other day that they want to jab all adults twice to allow us to open up. Think he let that slip rather than intended to say it.

The problem they have is once we get to the kids summer holidays most people will ignore the rules …. The government can’t let that happen as they need to be seen to be leading. That is my only hope for change but I don’t think we will fully go back to 2019 activities this year

Annoyingly I should have been in Majorca today for a week. I’d have been with 3 friends in a private Villa. As this is not allowed we are now heading to the safe haven of Manchester for a couple of days. Madness really.

[981C]

Is this real?

[basherX]

soofsayer said:

Good point made last night by a commentary on the tv that the terrorism laws brought in a long time ago have never been lifted despite not needing them. Taking your shoes off to go through airport security, or having to drink breast milk is still a thing even though there is no real threat (and never really was, more of a pr exercise), snooping on communications is still happening etc.

People are getting honours for advocating lockdowns, they are now accepted as a public health intervention.

Crazy.

I’ve said before that governance in any form, whether legal, social, corporate, etc, acts as ratchet. There’s also a massive overhang when you deploy behavioural strategies. There has been virtually no consideration or oversight of the longer term impact of what governments have done over the last 16 months and it really concerns me.

[basherX]

981C said:

Is this real?

Presumably that would look worse (ie more infuriating) on a population-adjusted basis

[Harrison Bergeron]

Rollin said:

Doesn't say that though does it. Here's the wording. You must be too scared to leave the house.

'In the highly unlikely event that a swab does contain a residual amount above the allowable limit, the risk to the user is still considered to be very low.'

None of the reasonable sceptics ever call out the fruit loops.

Very low- sounds a lot like the rona and it’s impact on the under 40s.

Just why are we locking down again to protect them….

[SS2.]

Just a few short weeks ago, this 95 year old lady sat masked and alone at her husband's funeral.

Now she's up close and personal with travellers from abroad who haven't been required to quarantine.

What's changed ?

[vonuber]

SS2. said:

Just a few short weeks ago, this 95 year old lady sat masked and alone at her husband's funeral.

Now she's up close and personal with travellers from abroad who haven't been required to quarantine.

What's changed ?

One rule for them, one for us? Ref. Gove and his sudden 'number ten pilot study' rather than isolation.

[paulw123]

SS2. said:

Just a few short weeks ago, this 95 year old lady sat masked and alone at her husband's funeral.

Now she's up close and personal with travellers from abroad who haven't been required to quarantine.

What's changed ?

Outdoors innit, pious Polly on the radio tells us the fresh air blows Covid away!

[vixen1700]

SS2. said:

Anyone can carry and transmit the virus without showing any symptoms. Even you

[ruggedscotty]

Scolmore said:

Rollin said:

Government FOI. Obviously made up too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom...

You lot are laughable.

“Risk very low”

Or you could completely avoid the risk by not taking a pointless test in the first place.

every which way isnt it, to not do as your told. the fact checkers are corrupt, the media is corrupt, the government is corrupt...

Every. one. is. out. to. get. me...


its no longer conspiracy is it.... its paranoia now...

[EddieSteadyGo]

SS2. said:

Just a few short weeks ago, this 95 year old lady sat masked and alone at her husband's funeral.

Now she's up close and personal with travellers from abroad who haven't been required to quarantine.

What's changed ?

What this image (and some of the other images from the G7 meeting show) is that even the main world leaders have no interest or desire to maintain social distancing, masks etc etc. Given half a chance, they revert back to 2019 'normal'. Which actually is a big positive.

And we can see from the reporting in the US, once the media calm down, the general hysteria and anxiety about cases falls away. Just look at the US rule change for wearing masks outside - as soon as the rule was dropped, most people stopped doing it immediately.