CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)
Discussion
Elysium said:
I’ve tried to organise events several times during these restrictions. I know what the rules are.
You can have a gathering of up to 30 people outdoors, but no venue will take a booking unless it’s agreed that this will be a seated event, that the group will be broken up into tables of 6 and that there will be no mingling.
The only way for a normal person to participate in this sort of event is to host it on their own land. Even then they would struggling to get it catered.
The Eden project is licensed premises. I can guarantee you that they would not have been allowed to host anything like the royal reception and dinner for a commercial business or private customer. Not because it flouts specific COVID regulations, but because if flouts COVID secure guidance which is now bound up into health and safety and licensing law. Ditto the Carbis Bay hotel.
The Govt has conflated law and guidance throughout this debacle. Instead hiding behind rules. Social distancing is guidance as is wearing masks when moving around hospitality venues and events. It’s not enforceable on the individual by law but if any normal venue allowed it there would be consequences on their business. These are Johnson’s guidelines and he should be following them without question. Or he should be withdrawing them.
The underlying point is that if you are going to have guidance you should follow it. I don’t care if any laws were broken, what matters is that they have blatantly disregarded their own guidance. Which confirms once and for all that the guidance is complete theatre.
But the big issue, the smoking gun if you like, is that he did this hours after leaking to the press that he had decided that us serfs need to adhere to this nonsense for 4 more weeks. Because ‘cases’ and stuff.
The arrogance and hypocrisy is off the charts.
Agreed. All they have done since the beginning has been break their own rules and ignore their own guidance. You can have a gathering of up to 30 people outdoors, but no venue will take a booking unless it’s agreed that this will be a seated event, that the group will be broken up into tables of 6 and that there will be no mingling.
The only way for a normal person to participate in this sort of event is to host it on their own land. Even then they would struggling to get it catered.
The Eden project is licensed premises. I can guarantee you that they would not have been allowed to host anything like the royal reception and dinner for a commercial business or private customer. Not because it flouts specific COVID regulations, but because if flouts COVID secure guidance which is now bound up into health and safety and licensing law. Ditto the Carbis Bay hotel.
The Govt has conflated law and guidance throughout this debacle. Instead hiding behind rules. Social distancing is guidance as is wearing masks when moving around hospitality venues and events. It’s not enforceable on the individual by law but if any normal venue allowed it there would be consequences on their business. These are Johnson’s guidelines and he should be following them without question. Or he should be withdrawing them.
The underlying point is that if you are going to have guidance you should follow it. I don’t care if any laws were broken, what matters is that they have blatantly disregarded their own guidance. Which confirms once and for all that the guidance is complete theatre.
But the big issue, the smoking gun if you like, is that he did this hours after leaking to the press that he had decided that us serfs need to adhere to this nonsense for 4 more weeks. Because ‘cases’ and stuff.
The arrogance and hypocrisy is off the charts.
Elysium said:
“Downing Street defends 'Covid-secure' beach barbecue for G7 leaders”
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/downing-street-defends-...
Got to keep those restrictions in place for our safety!
Despite what the Motley Crew on here say, it’s absolutely shocking and a total kick in the face of the population having forfeited so much. Held in a Covid secure way; what absolute clap trap - if any of the ‘peasants’ attempted that, we would be hit with a fine.https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/downing-street-defends-...
Got to keep those restrictions in place for our safety!
A few weeks ago when India was experiencing a covid surge in infections, quite a few people on this thread were commenting on the number of reported deaths saying it wasn't too much to worry about in the context of their population.
We are now getting the excess deaths figures through from some of the Indian states. This is an example from Madhya Pradesh, which is one of India's most populated states. In the first part of 2021, the number of excess deaths was 42 times higher than the official covid death figures.
It is hard to know what proportion of these excess deaths was caused directly by covid, but I think we can conclude India's official covid cases and deaths are *massively* underreported.
I think at around the time they were reporting 400,000 cases per day, I suspect the actual number of daily infections was somewhere above 12 million per day. Hence not surprising how many people were arriving here during April with a covid infection.
https://twitter.com/Rukmini/status/140356299161051...
We are now getting the excess deaths figures through from some of the Indian states. This is an example from Madhya Pradesh, which is one of India's most populated states. In the first part of 2021, the number of excess deaths was 42 times higher than the official covid death figures.
It is hard to know what proportion of these excess deaths was caused directly by covid, but I think we can conclude India's official covid cases and deaths are *massively* underreported.
I think at around the time they were reporting 400,000 cases per day, I suspect the actual number of daily infections was somewhere above 12 million per day. Hence not surprising how many people were arriving here during April with a covid infection.
https://twitter.com/Rukmini/status/140356299161051...
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
EddieSteadyGo said:
A few weeks ago when India was experiencing a covid surge in infections, quite a few people on this thread were commenting on the number of reported deaths saying it wasn't too much to worry about in the context of their population.
We are now getting the excess deaths figures through from some of the Indian states. This is an example from Madhya Pradesh, which is one of India's most populated states. In the first part of 2021, the number of excess deaths was 42 times higher than the official covid death figures.
It is hard to know what proportion of these excess deaths was caused directly by covid, but I think we can conclude India's official covid cases and deaths are *massively* underreported.
I think at around the time they were reporting 400,000 cases per day, I suspect the actual number of daily infections was somewhere above 12 million per day. Hence not surprising how many people were arriving here during April with a covid infection.
https://twitter.com/Rukmini/status/140356299161051...
While I fully agree the nature of things means covid cases and deaths are going to be massively under reported, assuming those numbers are accurate (and tbh I'd slightly question the validity of death numbers in India even in 'normal' times, it still seems implausible that covid was the major cause of all those deaths. We are now getting the excess deaths figures through from some of the Indian states. This is an example from Madhya Pradesh, which is one of India's most populated states. In the first part of 2021, the number of excess deaths was 42 times higher than the official covid death figures.
It is hard to know what proportion of these excess deaths was caused directly by covid, but I think we can conclude India's official covid cases and deaths are *massively* underreported.
I think at around the time they were reporting 400,000 cases per day, I suspect the actual number of daily infections was somewhere above 12 million per day. Hence not surprising how many people were arriving here during April with a covid infection.
https://twitter.com/Rukmini/status/140356299161051...
Mostly non urban population which in theory makes transmission less likely compared to a highly urbanised area, age structure of the population likely being as per across the rest of the country (ie much more younger people unless it's just older people left in rural areas), 5x the total normal death rate mostly due to covid given that seems a little hard to credit. Overall nationwide data in this case might be more useful than '42x official covid death toll' that's likely to be the main headline from that kind of thing.....
EddieSteadyGo said:
Stuff about India
I think it was obvious to all that what is mostly a third world sthole was going to be having loads of deaths and that there was no way they'd have a fraction of the test capacity to say they were 'Covid' deaths.Also blindingly obvious that Boris and Co didn't do much about it because they wanted a trip to go ahead, plus they've been persistently slack about dealing with incoming travel.
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
Good to hearIt was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
Darth Paul said:
Elysium said:
Staged social distancing crap at the start of the day
Completely ignored as they have what looks like a lovely drinks reception late in the evening
The outrage is because of the hypocrisy. Johnson set these rules and is apparently refusing to lift them, despite us all being good boys and girls and doing exactly what we were told for the last 6 months.
Meanwhile, he completely ignores his own restrictions. We know this is because at individual level the risk is very low. At population scale they might help, but he is ‘very important’, so it has been decided that he does not need to contribute to our group efforts. We are not ‘in it together’.
These people all flew in to the UK when the rest of us are pretty much banned from travel and told it’s too dangerous. They will not be quarantining, but we are required to do so at point of law.
Yes they have been vaxxed and tested, but so has the majority of the UK population.
There is no excuse for this rank hypocrisy and anyone looking at the images from this event needs to seriously consider why the hell they are complying with anything this Govt tells them to do.
What do you expect from a bunch of idiots that can’t even count. G7, but let’s throw a couple of EU clowns into the mix too. It’s like the works conference where you just invite a couple of mates from the office along for a piss upCompletely ignored as they have what looks like a lovely drinks reception late in the evening
The outrage is because of the hypocrisy. Johnson set these rules and is apparently refusing to lift them, despite us all being good boys and girls and doing exactly what we were told for the last 6 months.
Meanwhile, he completely ignores his own restrictions. We know this is because at individual level the risk is very low. At population scale they might help, but he is ‘very important’, so it has been decided that he does not need to contribute to our group efforts. We are not ‘in it together’.
These people all flew in to the UK when the rest of us are pretty much banned from travel and told it’s too dangerous. They will not be quarantining, but we are required to do so at point of law.
Yes they have been vaxxed and tested, but so has the majority of the UK population.
There is no excuse for this rank hypocrisy and anyone looking at the images from this event needs to seriously consider why the hell they are complying with anything this Govt tells them to do.
Deep Thought said:
vulture1 said:
Just have a national vote. 2 possible answers.
Do you want to continue with potential lockdowns,restrictions,masks
Yes
No
If no everything is dropped but also governments are not held responsible for any death increases.
I suspect the above reason is why they keep going with it now.
I wouldn't bank on there being a No outcome...Do you want to continue with potential lockdowns,restrictions,masks
Yes
No
If no everything is dropped but also governments are not held responsible for any death increases.
I suspect the above reason is why they keep going with it now.
king referendum. Don't let the s pass the buck, make them own it.croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
I know things have been tough for you over the past year or so, so it's good to read something with a lovely air of positivity about it - nice one It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
My wife always asks to see if you have posted anything as she was genuinely upset at the path your life appeared to have taken.It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
She will be glad to hear of this
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
What is your career / industry. I’m not doubting your assertion, but I know a heck of a lot of people in lots of walks of life and none of them have been unable to do anything connected to their career for 15 months. Worst affected is my mate who has an exhibition stand building factory, but even he has been doing odds and ends since back end of 2020. It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
Again, I’m not doubting you, just trying it work out what industry it may be that is so badly hit by this that despite there being quite limited restrictions for quite a lot of the last 15 months, you’re on,y now able to get going again.
I, too, am very glad you’re getting going again, it must have been a particularly s
tty 15 months.poo at Paul's said:
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
What is your career / industry. I’m not doubting your assertion, but I know a heck of a lot of people in lots of walks of life and none of them have been unable to do anything connected to their career for 15 months. Worst affected is my mate who has an exhibition stand building factory, but even he has been doing odds and ends since back end of 2020. It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
Again, I’m not doubting you, just trying it work out what industry it may be that is so badly hit by this that despite there being quite limited restrictions for quite a lot of the last 15 months, you’re on,y now able to get going again.
EddieSteadyGo said:
poo at Paul's said:
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
What is your career / industry. I’m not doubting your assertion, but I know a heck of a lot of people in lots of walks of life and none of them have been unable to do anything connected to their career for 15 months. Worst affected is my mate who has an exhibition stand building factory, but even he has been doing odds and ends since back end of 2020. It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
Again, I’m not doubting you, just trying it work out what industry it may be that is so badly hit by this that despite there being quite limited restrictions for quite a lot of the last 15 months, you’re on,y now able to get going again.
I’m currently on the Costa Del Sol and it feels like a totally different universe to the one I have experienced back in the U.K. of late. The land of control and paranoia.
Yeah people have masks, but they are worn half - heartedly.. I was down at the beach this morning and it was busy! I’ve actually shaken hands with a few people too - first time in ages!
I was out here August, October and December last year.luckily!
Yeah for sure it’s a lot quieter than what you would expect for June. But fundamentally I don’t feel the ever pressing fear that the IK government seems obsessed with forcing down peoples throats.
My observation is the Spanish appear equally non- believing now of their own rules set upon them
Just let us live our lives
Yeah people have masks, but they are worn half - heartedly.. I was down at the beach this morning and it was busy! I’ve actually shaken hands with a few people too - first time in ages!
I was out here August, October and December last year.luckily!
Yeah for sure it’s a lot quieter than what you would expect for June. But fundamentally I don’t feel the ever pressing fear that the IK government seems obsessed with forcing down peoples throats.
My observation is the Spanish appear equally non- believing now of their own rules set upon them
Just let us live our lives
poo at Paul's said:
What is your career / industry. I’m not doubting your assertion, but I know a heck of a lot of people in lots of walks of life and none of them have been unable to do anything connected to their career for 15 months. Worst affected is my mate who has an exhibition stand building factory, but even he has been doing odds and ends since back end of 2020.
Again, I’m not doubting you, just trying it work out what industry it may be that is so badly hit by this that despite there being quite limited restrictions for quite a lot of the last 15 months, you’re on,y now able to get going again.
I, too, am very glad you’re getting going again, it must have been a particularly stty 15 months.
Sorry, but despite what you say, you are clearly, inarguably, casting doubt on his assertion that he hasn't been able to work. And to be honest, it comes across as pretty sAgain, I’m not doubting you, just trying it work out what industry it may be that is so badly hit by this that despite there being quite limited restrictions for quite a lot of the last 15 months, you’re on,y now able to get going again.
I, too, am very glad you’re getting going again, it must have been a particularly s
tty 15 months.tty. Why not just leave it at your last sentence? That is all any decent person would need to say in response to the post.
croyde said:
I did my first freelance job today after the government cruelly destroyed my career March 2020.
It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't fking care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections.
For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
I too have noted your experiences and am gladdened to read the above. I truly hope things continue to improve.It was great. Within minutes masks were ripped off, hands shaken and hugs had. We worked hard, had little sleep and drove 100s of miles to get there.
I don't f
king care if I now die of Covid despite my 2, now considered by government as useless, injections. For a weekend I felt like I was living again.
They really are taking the piss now:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57452506
Note the complete and utter failure to mention anything along the lines of "even though the under 40s are almost entirely in no danger from COVID".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57452506
Note the complete and utter failure to mention anything along the lines of "even though the under 40s are almost entirely in no danger from COVID".
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