CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)
Discussion
Brave Fart said:
It seems to me that much of what we've been told over the last year isn't really science at all. Including but not limited to the following:
Didn’t the Covid Recovery Group of MPs ask for a cost benefit analysis some time ago? IIRC what the government produced was nowhere near what any reasonable person would have called a cost benefit analysis but they got away with it without any real challenge.- mask wearing - first it was deemed unnecessary, then mandatory, and never based on scientific "randomised control" evidence
- pubs and restaurants closed - where was the evidence that they were major sources of transmission?
- border controls - very early on we had them, then we didn't, and now we do
- social distancing - first it was 2 metres, then 1 metre (I think), then 1 metre plus
- schools - close them, then open them, then close them again, then open without masks, but then masks were required. Except now they're not!
- travel - English law only ever mandated a "reasonable excuse", but we were told to stay local, and only exercise once a day. Unless you were Mr Cummings in which case the guidance didn't apply, or did it? And it was different in Wales, different again in Scotland
As for the border control issue - my view is that we should have had a far tighter border control back in Feb March time when it was fairly obvious that something could head our way unless we did something. Instead, all we did was give people a bit of paper telling them to only report in once they had symptoms. A better idea may have been to have them isolating for 14 days then rather than the ludicrous situation we have now.
That said by March, it was probably too late anyway - our track and trace system couldn’t cope
Brave Fart said:
It seems to me that much of what we've been told over the last year isn't really science at all. Including but not limited to the following:
And it's not just the policies themselves, it's when they were implemented. - mask wearing - first it was deemed unnecessary, then mandatory, and never based on scientific "randomised control" evidence
- pubs and restaurants closed - where was the evidence that they were major sources of transmission?
- border controls - very early on we had them, then we didn't, and now we do
- social distancing - first it was 2 metres, then 1 metre (I think), then 1 metre plus
- schools - close them, then open them, then close them again, then open without masks, but then masks were required. Except now they're not!
- travel - English law only ever mandated a "reasonable excuse", but we were told to stay local, and only exercise once a day. Unless you were Mr Cummings in which case the guidance didn't apply, or did it? And it was different in Wales, different again in Scotland
Masks came in on July 23rd I think. Why? It was the middle of summer. I could've understood (though not agreed) with them being made mandatory in March 2020.
Speaking of which today was the first time I've been asked if I had a mask when entering a store. It was the local Arco I'd popped to in order to get some work trousers. I told the woman I was exempt and she said fine and then went on to explain the one way system (I was the only customer in the store at the time and ignored it) and that I could try stuff on but if I then didn't want it had to hand it in for quarantine.
I knew what I wanted anyhow but did have to rake through a few pairs to get to my size (I wonder if everything I touched should've been put in quarantine)?
I guess with them being a work wear and health and safety place they have to be seen to abide by the rules, but come on.
Update following the release of the weekly ONS report on deaths in England and Wales.
1. Week 17 is the 9th consecutive week where all cause deaths were normal or below average:
2. There were 140 deaths 'due to' COVID in week 17, which represents just 1.44% of all cause deaths. This is also the second week in a row where almost a third of COVID deaths were not actually 'due to' COVID:
I maintain that we ceased to be in an emergency at the end of February 2021.
1. Week 17 is the 9th consecutive week where all cause deaths were normal or below average:
2. There were 140 deaths 'due to' COVID in week 17, which represents just 1.44% of all cause deaths. This is also the second week in a row where almost a third of COVID deaths were not actually 'due to' COVID:
I maintain that we ceased to be in an emergency at the end of February 2021.
Alucidnation said:
markyb_lcy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
China Enforces New Boundary With Nepal At Summit Of Everest To Keep Infected Climbers Out
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/china-enforces-...
Not quite sure how that will work in practice... lol
Looks like we’ve reached peak ridiculous.https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/china-enforces-...
Not quite sure how that will work in practice... lol
And God knows what it's got to do with the UK.
More than anything I was shamelessly using the opportunity to make what I thought was a good gag, but perhaps it was too good without an accompanying smiley
As for what it has to do with the UK, who cares? Do we only discuss the UK now? For "we", read "humanity".
moanthebairns said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-57051691
Just when I thought they couldn't pedal out anymore pish on the BBC, up steps Richard. A builder and a trainee psychologist campaigns to combat online misinformation about vaccines, well f
k me.
Just looking at his photo, I wouldn't get the to screed my shed floor. I'm sure as fk not going to be bowled over about him picking low hanging fruit in the great vaccination debate.
Mmm - it all sounds a bit dodgy to me. As an old manager of mine once said “But who guards the guards?” Just when I thought they couldn't pedal out anymore pish on the BBC, up steps Richard. A builder and a trainee psychologist campaigns to combat online misinformation about vaccines, well f
k me.Just looking at his photo, I wouldn't get the
to screed my shed floor. I'm sure as fk not going to be bowled over about him picking low hanging fruit in the great vaccination debate. In this case it would appear that Facebook and the other companies control what is or isn’t allowed to be said
Brave Fart said:
markyb_lcy said:
<apologies for edit>There are plenty of commentators, some with “expert” status, who assert that cheap, non-standard masks actually aerosolise the outwardly-shed droplets of the infected people who wear them.
To what degree that is true, I’m unsure, but when they later come out and say “actually, nah, its not droplets as we’ve told you for a year, it’s actually aerosols you need to worry about”, it does make one think.
It seems to me that much of what we've been told over the last year isn't really science at all. Including but not limited to the following:To what degree that is true, I’m unsure, but when they later come out and say “actually, nah, its not droplets as we’ve told you for a year, it’s actually aerosols you need to worry about”, it does make one think.
- mask wearing - first it was deemed unnecessary, then mandatory, and never based on scientific "randomised control" evidence
- pubs and restaurants closed - where was the evidence that they were major sources of transmission?
- border controls - very early on we had them, then we didn't, and now we do
- social distancing - first it was 2 metres, then 1 metre (I think), then 1 metre plus; and none of it based on science AIUI
- schools - close them, then open them, then close them again, then open without masks, but then masks were required. Except now they're not!
- travel - English law only ever mandated a "reasonable excuse", but we were told to stay local, and only exercise once a day. Unless you were Mr Cummings in which case the guidance didn't apply, or did it? And it was different in Wales, different again in Scotland
Edited by Brave Fart on Tuesday 11th May 15:47
The whole routine makes absolutely no sense AT ALL.
Boringvolvodriver said:
In this case it would appear that Facebook and the other companies control what is or isn’t allowed to be said
On the BBC 6.00 news last night it mentioned that Facebook was deleting any anti-vaccination posts whether they were factual or not.Then went into some report about that builder bloke and some other t
t who talked about falling down a rabbit hole narrated by that disinformation reporter woman. moanthebairns said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-57051691
Just when I thought they couldn't pedal out anymore pish on the BBC, up steps Richard. A builder and a trainee psychologist campaigns to combat online misinformation about vaccines, well fk me.
Just looking at his photo, I wouldn't get the to screed my shed floor. I'm sure as fk not going to be bowled over about him picking low hanging fruit in the great vaccination debate.
I saw this when it was first on the TV earlier in the week. Just when I thought they couldn't pedal out anymore pish on the BBC, up steps Richard. A builder and a trainee psychologist campaigns to combat online misinformation about vaccines, well f
k me.Just looking at his photo, I wouldn't get the
to screed my shed floor. I'm sure as fk not going to be bowled over about him picking low hanging fruit in the great vaccination debate. I drew the Mrs attention to these Vaccine Vigilantees and the hard of thinking victim that they had saved from certain death by persuading him to embrace the jab. Much mirth ensued.
Nutters the three of them.
Boringvolvodriver said:
Didn’t the Covid Recovery Group of MPs ask for a cost benefit analysis some time ago? IIRC what the government produced was nowhere near what any reasonable person would have called a cost benefit analysis but they got away with it without any real challenge.
As for the border control issue - my view is that we should have had a far tighter border control back in Feb March time when it was fairly obvious that something could head our way unless we did something. Instead, all we did was give people a bit of paper telling them to only report in once they had symptoms. A better idea may have been to have them isolating for 14 days then rather than the ludicrous situation we have now.
That said by March, it was probably too late anyway - our track and trace system couldn’t cope
All pertinent points BVD, Regarding any cost-benefit analysis, I've been disappointed at the elevation of covid above every other disease. The attitude appears to be "the government doesn't care how many more cancer deaths, how much more heart disease, or how much damage is done to mental health. Nope, only covid matters. We'd rather save 100 people from covid than 1000 people from cancer. If you've missed an important cancer diagnosis, well.......tough. You'll probably die quite slowly and we definitely won't announce cancer deaths on every news bulletin."As for the border control issue - my view is that we should have had a far tighter border control back in Feb March time when it was fairly obvious that something could head our way unless we did something. Instead, all we did was give people a bit of paper telling them to only report in once they had symptoms. A better idea may have been to have them isolating for 14 days then rather than the ludicrous situation we have now.
That said by March, it was probably too late anyway - our track and trace system couldn’t cope
Everything is short term thinking and knee jerk reactions. Emotion and political popularity overrides calm analysis every time. And, crucially, only covid matters.
Make it a criminal offence, second time of refusing compulsory prison sentence where it necessary they held down and vaccinated. This bloody thing is a PANdemic, it's world wide as long as someone somewhere is infected it can go round again. We absolutely have to make the vaccine available to all the developing states. SO NO EXCUSE for citizens of developed countries. I dont give a flying frig for individual rights on this matter.
This post appeared on my local Facebook page yesterday in reply to a vaccination question. The bloke was deadly serious too when I questioned his "held down and vaccinated" line. Said he wasn't a liberal and talked about "the minority cannot willfully endanger the whole of society".
Jesus!
Comments got turned off shortly afterwards.
This post appeared on my local Facebook page yesterday in reply to a vaccination question. The bloke was deadly serious too when I questioned his "held down and vaccinated" line. Said he wasn't a liberal and talked about "the minority cannot willfully endanger the whole of society".
Jesus!
Comments got turned off shortly afterwards.
vixen1700 said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
In this case it would appear that Facebook and the other companies control what is or isn’t allowed to be said
On the BBC 6.00 news last night it mentioned that Facebook was deleting any anti-vaccination posts whether they were factual or not.Then went into some report about that builder bloke and some other t
t who talked about falling down a rabbit hole narrated by that disinformation reporter woman. bern said:
Wife's just sent me this. It about sums up where we are I think. Sat on a mobility scooter, under a brolly, in the pissing rain having a pint.
Quite happy for you to catch pneumonia but under no circumstances must you catch 'the deadly disease'
How many had she had when she took that shot?Quite happy for you to catch pneumonia but under no circumstances must you catch 'the deadly disease'
Brave Fart said:
markyb_lcy said:
<apologies for edit>There are plenty of commentators, some with “expert” status, who assert that cheap, non-standard masks actually aerosolise the outwardly-shed droplets of the infected people who wear them.
To what degree that is true, I’m unsure, but when they later come out and say “actually, nah, its not droplets as we’ve told you for a year, it’s actually aerosols you need to worry about”, it does make one think.
It seems to me that much of what we've been told over the last year isn't really science at all. Including but not limited to the following:To what degree that is true, I’m unsure, but when they later come out and say “actually, nah, its not droplets as we’ve told you for a year, it’s actually aerosols you need to worry about”, it does make one think.
- mask wearing - first it was deemed unnecessary, then mandatory, and never based on scientific "randomised control" evidence
- pubs and restaurants closed - where was the evidence that they were major sources of transmission?
- border controls - very early on we had them, then we didn't, and now we do
- social distancing - first it was 2 metres, then 1 metre (I think), then 1 metre plus; and none of it based on science AIUI
- schools - close them, then open them, then close them again, then open without masks, but then masks were required. Except now they're not!
- travel - English law only ever mandated a "reasonable excuse", but we were told to stay local, and only exercise once a day. Unless you were Mr Cummings in which case the guidance didn't apply, or did it? And it was different in Wales, different again in Scotland
Edited by Brave Fart on Tuesday 11th May 15:47
Thin White Duke said:
markyb_lcy said:
paulw123 said:
Talk on here of an almost certain ‘autumn lockdown’ surely any lockdown/restrictions just makes a mockery of everything we have endured the last 18months and renders Max vaccination somewhat pointless.
You’ve made the mistake of expecting the UK govt covid strategy to make any kind of sense.If they (either the dumb masses, or the tyrannical Johnson administration) want autumn lockdown, we will have autumn lockdown.
And indeed all of the people in the at risk groups who have had the vaccine and want to get on with their lives?
If we are in lockdown in Autumn that will be it. We will know for certain this isn't about a virus.
k all, they will do as they are told just as they have done for the past 14 months.JagLover said:
The CDC has conceded it is airborne. This follows a few articles over the last month in the likes of the Lancet that claimed it was.
https://www.biospace.com/article/cdc-s-updated-gui...
If this is the main means of transmission doesn't this call into question many aspects of the rules designed to constrain it?. Masks for example won't be doing much at all. As for distance, well what matters there is likely to be the ventilation of the space you are in with an infectious person, not distance alone.
I guess this is what some of the MIT modelling was about? Their conclusions were that it didn't matter if you were 6ft o 60ft, wearing a mask or not wearing a mask. If you are going to be stuck in a room with someone with it, its going to circulate (air currents, brownian motion etc) and you are going to breath it in. https://www.biospace.com/article/cdc-s-updated-gui...
If this is the main means of transmission doesn't this call into question many aspects of the rules designed to constrain it?. Masks for example won't be doing much at all. As for distance, well what matters there is likely to be the ventilation of the space you are in with an infectious person, not distance alone.
Though if you read the bottom of your link, they also released a report suggesting double masking or N95 masking as it improves protection against droplets. But if its airborne, surely the non-sealing type masks are not going to cut it (which is what we've been saying for the past year, because how else can it still spread like wild fire despite mask mandates) and you need to have something proper if staying in enclosed spaces with people.
Not that it matters too much here right now, with something like 1 in 5000 people having an active case.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 11th May 17:13
Otispunkmeyer said:
JagLover said:
The CDC has conceded it is airborne. This follows a few articles over the last month in the likes of the Lancet that claimed it was.
https://www.biospace.com/article/cdc-s-updated-gui...
If this is the main means of transmission doesn't this call into question many aspects of the rules designed to constrain it?. Masks for example won't be doing much at all. As for distance, well what matters there is likely to be the ventilation of the space you are in with an infectious person, not distance alone.
I guess this is what some of the MIT modelling was about? Their conclusions were that it didn't matter if you were 6ft o 60ft, wearing a mask or not wearing a mask. If you are going to be stuck in a room with someone with it, its going to circulate (air currents, brownian motion etc) and you are going to breath it in. https://www.biospace.com/article/cdc-s-updated-gui...
If this is the main means of transmission doesn't this call into question many aspects of the rules designed to constrain it?. Masks for example won't be doing much at all. As for distance, well what matters there is likely to be the ventilation of the space you are in with an infectious person, not distance alone.
danllama said:
Thin White Duke said:
markyb_lcy said:
paulw123 said:
Talk on here of an almost certain ‘autumn lockdown’ surely any lockdown/restrictions just makes a mockery of everything we have endured the last 18months and renders Max vaccination somewhat pointless.
You’ve made the mistake of expecting the UK govt covid strategy to make any kind of sense.If they (either the dumb masses, or the tyrannical Johnson administration) want autumn lockdown, we will have autumn lockdown.
And indeed all of the people in the at risk groups who have had the vaccine and want to get on with their lives?
If we are in lockdown in Autumn that will be it. We will know for certain this isn't about a virus.
k all, they will do as they are told just as they have done for the past 14 months.Do you find it strange that there was/is no meaningful resistance to the whole affair of restrictions? No significant pushback.
I've seen my left leaning friends post their anti-tory stuff on social media recently (I'm not a tory supporter myself now after this) but at the same time gladly virtue signal their mask wearing and vaccination status. They don't trust the government on anything except the response to Covid which invoked the greatest attack on our freedoms since, well I don't know, Cromwell?
Elysium said:
About as good as the climate models. They're rather catch all + large error bars, so they'll get the right answer at some point!!! and of course, work to the worst case, however unrealistic or improbable.
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