CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)

[vixen1700]

Thin White Duke said:

I can't see most folks ditching them until the mandate it lifted.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

There are also plenty of people I've heard saying they'll keep them wearing them on public transport even when restrictions are lifted. Not so much to do with Covid, but just skanky, dirty people.

[grumbledoak]

Thin White Duke said:

I can't see most folks ditching them until the mandate it lifted.

I think many won't, but the enforcement is already gone. I wandered around a shopping centre yesterday - no mask, no lanyard, no questions.

[NerveAgent]

vixen1700 said:

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

There are also plenty of people I've heard saying they'll keep them wearing them on public transport even when restrictions are lifted. Not so much to do with Covid, but just skanky, dirty people.

Id say a bit naive and subservient. Skanky and dirty perhaps a little far, though I guess it does get that way under the damp rag.

[matt21]

I noticed disappointingly masks everywhere still, even outside.

[vonuber]

I'm going to follow Government example over Social Distancing, mask use etc:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704403...

[akadk]

Freedoms back ?

Open your eyes ffs


“We will let you attend this event if you have had our approved medical procedure “

Doesn’t sound like freedom to me? Certainly not how I grew up in this world … Maybe to someone who grew up in China …

Roman Rhodes said:

I’m looking forward to the “total social control matrix”.

Bit of an hysterical Sunday morning for some here it seems. Some nice egregious comparisons with civil rights campaigners and Nazi Germany from the guys sticking it to ‘the man’ by not wearing a “muzzle” in Asda.

Let’s go Stateside where they’ve got their freedoms back.

Bruce Springsteen gig anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jun/18/bruc...

[plasticpig]

Twinfan said:

Same here. I just need my debit card, that's all.

You have a debit card where you can take out £5k in a day?

[Slagathore]

BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:

The insistence on jabbing everyone is insane. My wife worked in A&E without PPE when this all started and has more than likely had Covid already as have her colleagues. I definitely had it, not sure if from the school trip returning via Milan in February/March or if she brought it back from the hospital. Probably a bit different on wards however as most of their patients were screened for covid later on.

I think the “jab everyone” insanity is simply to hide the overspending on unneeded vaccines. If a few die or suffer life changing side effects, it’s a small inconsequential price to pay for the politicians and advisers.

Yeah, and because it's the only thing they've been praised for and most of the general public are idiots, so actually believe absolutely everyone needs the jab and that's the only way they'll be safe.

It's the only think they've been praised for, so no surprise they'll just blindly continue to keep that praise going. Some strange ego stuff going on as well about being the country to have jabbed the most etc as well that doesn't help!

[vixen1700]

matt21 said:

I noticed disappointingly masks everywhere still, even outside.

There are still a lot outside here in London.

Had something new yesterday, got into an Uber Toyota and there was a big clear perspex division between the front and rear sests. Not seen that before.

Anybody who thinks normality will suddenly re-appear come 19th July is deluded. Unfortunately.

[BigMon]

Boringvolvodriver said:

BigMon said:

I've said it before, but anyone who thinks we're living under a dictatorship or are on the road to a Nazi Germany or whatever, go and speak to someone who lives in or has relatives in Belarus, tell them about what it's like living in the UK, and see their reaction when you say this is a dictatorship.

And I will repeat myself, I am not saying that we are living under a dictatorship. All I and and other posters are doing are looking back at history and understanding how it came to pass - please read the words that have been used.

How is looking back at history appalling?

In that case a history or sociology exam question along the lines of “ Explain what happened in 1930s Germany led to WW2” wouldn’t be allowed. Or are we trying to re write history now?

Yes, that's true enough. I disagree that this current situation is in any way similar to 1930's Germany, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Biker 1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I suppose you didn't notice the quotation marks....
For the avoidance of doubt, I am very much anti-mask. I, like many others, think they're utterly useless as worn by the general public, & can't wait for the stupid mandate to be cancelled. If I'm in an establishment where enforcement isn't carried out, such as my local pub, I won't wear one. In a supermarket where compliance is practically 100%, things get a bit more complicated. However, apparently we're not allowed to refer to them as 'muzzles' on PH, so I won't.....

[NewBod]

Obsolete Driver said:

NewBod said:

Wow.

Is that all you can come up with as a meaningful response?

Are you saying that everyone in society should be a bus driver now? And if you don't make the grade, you should be cast out?

What about kids? Do they need to be bus drivers too?

Your choices affect your life. If you don't have a driving licence it affects your opportunities for employment. Your choice not to be covid vaccinated may affect your opportunities in the future.

I thought all kids wanted to be train drivers.

You keep missing my point. Maybe on purpose.

Since when has not having a driving licence or in your example, not had the ability to drive a bus, meant you could be excluded or segregated from society?

[CrutyRammers]

BlackWidow13 said:

CrutyRammers said:

The idea of the government imposing restrictions by default, and granting some freedoms to those who agree to have a medical procedure, is fundamentally abhorrent. It's on a moral par with sectioning someone under the mental health act - something which should be allowed only in the most extreme of circumstances, with a great many controls around.
These circumstances do not justify such measures IMO. To allow it is to set a very dangerous precedent.

You’ve accidentally crushed your own argument.

Sectioning happens when people are a danger to themselves or society. Unvaccinated individuals are precisely that. Logically they should therefore be treated specially and excluded from the benefits that come with being a responsible member of society.

If you want to be a contrarian be prepared to pay the price. You say that the circumstances don’t justify this approach, but the majority says otherwise. Sitting there in a small minority and expecting the govt and society to bend to your will undermines basic democracy, and that is the dangerous precedent here.

No, because the argument is one of proportionality. You don't section someone who poses a small risk, only in the most extreme of cases, where the risk is very great. It's a last ditch measure only to be used when there is no other option. The risk of covid to society is not very great at all.

Your other assertions regarding majority views are baseless.

Aside from that, I have to say that the fact that you can even attempt to rationalise the creation of an underclass in this way, and completely give your freedoms up to Boris and co, disgusts me. Try, please, to consider the wider implications of your position.

[NewBod]

NewBod said:

Roman Rhodes said:

m_cozzy said:

Well mine was ditched a few weeks back. I will look forward to seeing some unmasked faces next week.
It will be the snivelling subservient types with testes the size of shrivelled tictacs who will be masked up still.

Why not stroll about with your giant bks hanging out as well?

How insecure must someone be to think they can demonstrate their masculinity by not wearing a mask.

I don't wear a mask. Haven't done so through this whole thing. Why? Because I'm obeying the rules.

I have an exemption.

What are your thoughts on people with an exemption not wearing masks?

In relation to the above, what are the thoughts of those on here in favour of masks about people following the rules and not wearing a mask due to exemption?

I'll open it up to everyone in favour of masks.

[404 Page not found]

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes before you can buy a vaccinated stamp for your health passport...I.E slip one of the jabbers £50 just to put you down as jabbed when you haven't been.
It'll be like when people have a 'friendly' MOT tester.
It might be already happening considering how many normal folk have been drafted in as vaccinators. I'm sure a good number of those are corruptible with a few crisp tenners.

[ruggedscotty]

Boringvolvodriver said:

BigMon said:

I've said it before, but anyone who thinks we're living under a dictatorship or are on the road to a Nazi Germany or whatever, go and speak to someone who lives in or has relatives in Belarus, tell them about what it's like living in the UK, and see their reaction when you say this is a dictatorship.

And I will repeat myself, I am not saying that we are living under a dictatorship. All I and and other posters are doing are looking back at history and understanding how it came to pass - please read the words that have been used.

How is looking back at history appalling?

In that case a history or sociology exam question along the lines of “ Explain what happened in 1930s Germany led to WW2” wouldn’t be allowed. Or are we trying to re write history now?

its called....

The anchoring effect is a cognitive bias whereby an individual's decisions are influenced by a particular reference point or 'anchor'. Once the value of the anchor is set, subsequent arguments, estimates, etc. made by an individual may change from what they would have otherwise been without the anchor.

clever way of underhand steerage, so some think but its really not.....

[Obsolete Driver]

NewBod said:

You keep missing my point. Maybe on purpose.

Since when has not having a driving licence or in your example, not had the ability to drive a bus, meant you could be excluded or segregated from society?

Nobody is demanding you stay at home 100% of the time.

[bern]

Alucidnation said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

How many times do we have to point it out to certain posters that we are are not comparing what happened in 1930s Germany to now - it is an observation on history as to how these things can and in 1930s Germany did happen.

The fact that the posters either choose to ignore that difference or can’t see it, kind of proves the point as to how to can (note the word can) happen.

It doesn't matter how you try and justify it, using it as a 'reference' to what is happening currently, is quite frankly appalling.

Maybe, maybe not. But you ignore history at your peril. A bit like covid...

[Obsolete Driver]

NewBod said:

In relation to the above, what are the thoughts of those on here in favour of masks about people following the rules and not wearing a mask due to exemption?

I'll open it up to everyone in favour of masks.

Feel free to buy a badge.

badge by Obsolete Driver, on Flickr

[CrutyRammers]

Obsolete Driver said:

Is someone discriminated against because they are not allowed to drive because they refuse to take a test?

Is someone discriminated against because they cannot travel abroad because they refuse to apply for a passport?

You have a choice of whether or not to get vaccinated, and it's even free. If you don't you will have to accept any adverse consequences of that.

These are really hard concepts for some aren't they? Ok let's take it step by step.
Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.

If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.