CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)
Discussion
Obsolete Driver said:
NewBod said:
You keep missing my point. Maybe on purpose.
Since when has not having a driving licence or in your example, not had the ability to drive a bus, meant you could be excluded or segregated from society?
Nobody is demanding you stay at home 100% of the time.Since when has not having a driving licence or in your example, not had the ability to drive a bus, meant you could be excluded or segregated from society?
The way things are going, it's looking like certain people, like yourself, want society segregated based on vaccination status. I can gather from your posts that you would be happy with this.
You don't answer questions or defend your points properly, you just post up meaningless responses. There is nothing more to say really.
Uggers said:
Obsolete Driver said:
Is someone discriminated against because they are not allowed to drive because they refuse to take a test?
Is someone discriminated against because they cannot travel abroad because they refuse to apply for a passport?
You have a choice of whether or not to get vaccinated, and it's even free. If you don't you will have to accept any adverse consequences of that.
Thankyou for proving my point, when has it been a societal norm to remove individuals rights or services based on medical status? Is someone discriminated against because they cannot travel abroad because they refuse to apply for a passport?
You have a choice of whether or not to get vaccinated, and it's even free. If you don't you will have to accept any adverse consequences of that.
And I noticed you avoided the vaccinating of children. Would you like to remove their right to an education?
ruggedscotty said:
crap.... total crap not even in the same page. One was a society that self destructed with a genocidal maniac....
the other is a society that is innoculating its population against a particularly nasty disease. I see no concentraion camps do you ?
What do you think of this Scotty? Perilously close, don't you think?the other is a society that is innoculating its population against a particularly nasty disease. I see no concentraion camps do you ?
https://youtu.be/Gjd_v0r5d5s
Obsolete Driver said:
Nobody is demanding you stay at home 100% of the time.
iirc Charlie Mullins has advocated for close to thatThe businessman said anti-vaxxers would not be able to work or travel if they didn't get the jab in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable who are more susceptible to the virus.
However, by the end of May Mullins hadn't had his jab
Obsolete Driver said:
NewBod said:
In relation to the above, what are the thoughts of those on here in favour of masks about people following the rules and not wearing a mask due to exemption?
I'll open it up to everyone in favour of masks.
Feel free to buy a badge.I'll open it up to everyone in favour of masks.
badge by Obsolete Driver, on FlickrAnyhow, I shall stop responding to you now because it's a waste of time. There is no meaningful debate or response.
CrutyRammers said:
These are really hard concepts for some aren't they? Ok let's take it step by step.
Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.
If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.
The government considers unvaccinated people a greater risk to public health than vaccinated people. They are therefore considering restrictions on the unvaccinated. Some will think that is reasonable and justified and some will not.Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.
If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.
Obsolete Driver said:
NewBod said:
Wow.
Is that all you can come up with as a meaningful response?
Are you saying that everyone in society should be a bus driver now? And if you don't make the grade, you should be cast out?
What about kids? Do they need to be bus drivers too?
Your choices affect your life. If you don't have a driving licence it affects your opportunities for employment. Your choice not to be covid vaccinated may affect your opportunities in the future.Is that all you can come up with as a meaningful response?
Are you saying that everyone in society should be a bus driver now? And if you don't make the grade, you should be cast out?
What about kids? Do they need to be bus drivers too?
I thought all kids wanted to be train drivers.
king bds. I knew this is where we'd end up eventually. I warned everyone it was the thin end of the wedge. Would anyone listen, no.No wonder the wetters usually stick to one liners and rolling head emoji's. When they do open their mouths it's almost laughable.
CrutyRammers said:
Obsolete Driver said:
Is someone discriminated against because they are not allowed to drive because they refuse to take a test?
Is someone discriminated against because they cannot travel abroad because they refuse to apply for a passport?
You have a choice of whether or not to get vaccinated, and it's even free. If you don't you will have to accept any adverse consequences of that.
These are really hard concepts for some aren't they? Ok let's take it step by step.Is someone discriminated against because they cannot travel abroad because they refuse to apply for a passport?
You have a choice of whether or not to get vaccinated, and it's even free. If you don't you will have to accept any adverse consequences of that.
Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.
If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.
These are the sort of people who think everything going on is fine and dandy, until something they hold dear is removed. They just can't see it happening yet.
Case in point being the 'wrong' type of vaccine in relation to Bruce Springsteen.
How would those vaccinated with the 'wrong' vaccine feel?Obsolete Driver said:
CrutyRammers said:
These are really hard concepts for some aren't they? Ok let's take it step by step.
Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.
If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.
The government considers unvaccinated people a greater risk to public health than vaccinated people. They are therefore considering restrictions on the unvaccinated. Some will think that is reasonable and justified and some will not.Yes, they are discriminated against.
BUT that discrimination, and the effects of it, are proportional to the risk posed by letting everyone drive without meeting a minimum standard. We also all contribute towards public transport to try to ensure that those who cannot drive are not excluded from normal activities.
If you were not allowed to walk on the pavement without taking a test, and the government could revoke your walking licence at any time, that would not be proportionate to the risk of having untrained people walking around, and would therefore not be acceptable.
Nothing to add on the point in question then?
Sunday morning seems to be a high point for screaming hysteria…
I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
CrutyRammers said:
ruggedscotty said:
crap.... total crap not even in the same page. One was a society that self destructed with a genocidal maniac....
the other is a society that is innoculating its population against a particularly nasty disease. I see no concentraion camps do you ?
What do you think of this Scotty? Perilously close, don't you think?the other is a society that is innoculating its population against a particularly nasty disease. I see no concentraion camps do you ?
https://youtu.be/Gjd_v0r5d5s
NewBod said:
I really wouldn't waste your time on that poster.
These are the sort of people who think everything going on is fine and dandy, until something they hold dear is removed. They just can't see it happening yet.
Case in point being the 'wrong' type of vaccine in relation to Bruce Springsteen. How would those vaccinated with the 'wrong' vaccine feel?
My understanding is that the AZ vaccine is not approved for use in the US. Hence no concert pass for it.These are the sort of people who think everything going on is fine and dandy, until something they hold dear is removed. They just can't see it happening yet.
Case in point being the 'wrong' type of vaccine in relation to Bruce Springsteen.
How would those vaccinated with the 'wrong' vaccine feel?Obsolete Driver said:
DT398 said:
If you choose not to take a driving test, the only thing you will not be able to do is actually drive a car. Seems reasonable. Nobody is forcing you to take a test and nobody is suggesting you will be treated less favourably than those that do in any other aspect of your life.
Good luck with getting a job as a bus driver.Thanks for confirming my assessment of your capacity for intellectual reasoning.
andyeds1234 said:
Sunday morning seems to be a high point for screaming hysteria…
I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
Great point. I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
When was the last time we criminalised someone for having a cup of tea with their mum because there was a bug going around / public health emergency?
plasticpig said:
NewBod said:
I've just enquired about the Id requirements for a few banks. You can use other means (tax notification, birth certificate, utility bill etc.). You can still open accounts without a passport or driving licence.
That's different from actually trying it. I found it pretty much impossible. I couldn't even withdraw cash out of my account without photo ID. That was 10 years ago and things are even stricter these days. 
pocty said:
plasticpig said:
NewBod said:
I've just enquired about the Id requirements for a few banks. You can use other means (tax notification, birth certificate, utility bill etc.). You can still open accounts without a passport or driving licence.
That's different from actually trying it. I found it pretty much impossible. I couldn't even withdraw cash out of my account without photo ID. That was 10 years ago and things are even stricter these days. When asked by two people in there why I didn't have a mask on (one after the other), I should have said for ID purposes, not because I have an exemption.
I miss the old days of people getting abuse for wearing masks. Amazing how opinions have changed in just a few years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVuaB5Txgvg
Edited by NewBod on Sunday 20th June 10:32
andyeds1234 said:
Sunday morning seems to be a high point for screaming hysteria…
I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
Like swine flu?I do agree we should not ignore history though, just maybe take some time to understand it, before using it as yardstick?
Perhaps looking at previous pandemics, in order to understand the decisions being made, would be more relevant than Nazi Germany?
https://www.forbes.com/2010/03/10/swine-flu-world-...
DP EDIT
Here’s a link from the impartial BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10396382
Presumably you lot have looked at the Israeli experiment? They had segregation by way of a 'green'pass, which allowed vaxed citizens to have more freedoms than unvaxed for several months, but this appears to have been seriously divisive, & after a while got ignored by many businesses. It was extremely expensive to implement & seemingly open to abuse. One aspect that interested me was the fact that people who had had bat-flu were not eligible for a vax jab, but were entitled to the 'green' pass, whilst here we jab all & sundry. I wonder if there'll be health implications for those that have recovered from bat-flu & then gone on to be jabbed? Time will tell....
Biker 1 said:
Presumably you lot have looked at the Israeli experiment? They had segregation by way of a 'green'pass, which allowed vaxed citizens to have more freedoms than unvaxed for several months, but this appears to have been seriously divisive, & after a while got ignored by many businesses. It was extremely expensive to implement & seemingly open to abuse. One aspect that interested me was the fact that people who had had bat-flu were not eligible for a vax jab, but we're entitled to the 'green' pass, whilst here we jab all & sundry. I wonder if there'll be health implications for those that have recovered from bat-flu & then gone on to be jabbed? Time will tell....
I have been watching that with interest. If I recall correctly, at one point they were threatening parents with removal of their green cards if they didn't vaccinate their kids.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff