UK approves Pfizer jab for use in 12-15-year-olds
Discussion
GMT13 said:
Shutting down other, safer treatments that don't stand to make them billions in the process is fine too?
Ivermectin is a cheap and readily available drug that has been proven to be very effective and yet it's use is blocked and doubt cast wherever possible. The politicisation of it has frustrated a lot of respected people in medicine. Search for Tess Lawrie.
https://twitter.com/drsamuelwhite_/status/14009028...
Is it readily available? No licensed solid dosage forms of ivermectin commercially available in the UK and EU which by default makes very difficult to obtainIvermectin is a cheap and readily available drug that has been proven to be very effective and yet it's use is blocked and doubt cast wherever possible. The politicisation of it has frustrated a lot of respected people in medicine. Search for Tess Lawrie.
https://twitter.com/drsamuelwhite_/status/14009028...
unident said:
NRS said:
Give a reply then pointing out the holes and why I'm wrong. That's how science works...
Let’s have a look at your 4 points:1. Why is it an either / or situation. It’s quite possible to inoculate all our population and donate millions of spare vaccines to the rest of the world.
2. You’ve decided it’s a test, because it’s received emergency approval. That doesn’t make it a test.
3. AZ has not been stopped. It might have been where you live, but it’s still being used around the world. It might have been scaled back on the younger population, but as this thread isn’t about the AZ vaccine being approved for youngsters it’s completely irrelevant. Are people dropping dead all over the world due to these vaccines?
4. You’re right that Pfizer are making a profit, the other companies have promised to waive theirs. I don’t have a problem with companies making a profit. I’m not a communist
If you want long term data then you have to wait for the period that you define as long term, which for some reason nobody wants to. I get the impression that whatever data is gathered it will never be enough for some.
2) It is a test - if not show me the long term data. If we don't have data we have the hypothesis and modelling that it should be good long term, but there is no evidence as it doesn't exist. "Normal" medical approvals take typically 10 or so years, as despite ones which show promising early results the standard practice is to see long term impacts on a small number of people, despite the benefits it may have. Covid vaccines have been rushed because of the big life saving potential, but it doesn't stop the long term data being missing and so not proven yet.
3) Medical experts including in the UK believe the risk is too high, based on data that has come out after large scale role out. Since this discussion is about vaccines for 12-15yo it doesn't matter about the very clear proven benefits of the vaccine for old people, it's if we should jab teenagers (and below). The experts have come up with a level of 30 or so in the UK. This has taken around half a year to become apparent, despite a short reaction within a few days of the jab.
4) Neither am I. But there's a very clear financial gain for them to push more vaccines, and push it more in the rich countries where they make bigger profits over poorer countries.
But to me the main thing is what will you choose if you had to make the call...
a) Jab teens in the UK and save a few lives
OR
b) Leave the teens for now, use the jabs elsewhere in the world to save far more lives on the main at-risk groups.
And no dodging saying we do both, it's not possible with the amount of vaccines available. It'd be interesting to know if you're a British lives are most important, or if you want to save the most lives possible.
NRS said:
1) It's an either/or because we are massively vaccine limited on a worldwide basis. For each kid you jab now that will limit the vaccines that can be given to older people in say India, who are far more risk. In a perfect world it's not an issue - in the real world by giving a vaccine to a kid in the UK you are taking it from people who are much more at risk elsewhere.
2) It is a test - if not show me the long term data. If we don't have data we have the hypothesis and modelling that it should be good long term, but there is no evidence as it doesn't exist. "Normal" medical approvals take typically 10 or so years, as despite ones which show promising early results the standard practice is to see long term impacts on a small number of people, despite the benefits it may have. Covid vaccines have been rushed because of the big life saving potential, but it doesn't stop the long term data being missing and so not proven yet.
3) Medical experts including in the UK believe the risk is too high, based on data that has come out after large scale role out. Since this discussion is about vaccines for 12-15yo it doesn't matter about the very clear proven benefits of the vaccine for old people, it's if we should jab teenagers (and below). The experts have come up with a level of 30 or so in the UK. This has taken around half a year to become apparent, despite a short reaction within a few days of the jab.
4) Neither am I. But there's a very clear financial gain for them to push more vaccines, and push it more in the rich countries where they make bigger profits over poorer countries.
But to me the main thing is what will you choose if you had to make the call...
a) Jab teens in the UK and save a few lives
OR
b) Leave the teens for now, use the jabs elsewhere in the world to save far more lives on the main at-risk groups.
And no dodging saying we do both, it's not possible with the amount of vaccines available. It'd be interesting to know if you're a British lives are most important, or if you want to save the most lives possible.
There’s little point debating this as you constantly shift your position. This thread is not about AZ but you use that as your starting point for arguments. 2) It is a test - if not show me the long term data. If we don't have data we have the hypothesis and modelling that it should be good long term, but there is no evidence as it doesn't exist. "Normal" medical approvals take typically 10 or so years, as despite ones which show promising early results the standard practice is to see long term impacts on a small number of people, despite the benefits it may have. Covid vaccines have been rushed because of the big life saving potential, but it doesn't stop the long term data being missing and so not proven yet.
3) Medical experts including in the UK believe the risk is too high, based on data that has come out after large scale role out. Since this discussion is about vaccines for 12-15yo it doesn't matter about the very clear proven benefits of the vaccine for old people, it's if we should jab teenagers (and below). The experts have come up with a level of 30 or so in the UK. This has taken around half a year to become apparent, despite a short reaction within a few days of the jab.
4) Neither am I. But there's a very clear financial gain for them to push more vaccines, and push it more in the rich countries where they make bigger profits over poorer countries.
But to me the main thing is what will you choose if you had to make the call...
a) Jab teens in the UK and save a few lives
OR
b) Leave the teens for now, use the jabs elsewhere in the world to save far more lives on the main at-risk groups.
And no dodging saying we do both, it's not possible with the amount of vaccines available. It'd be interesting to know if you're a British lives are most important, or if you want to save the most lives possible.
What would you prefer long term data before anything is down so a decade of lockdowns? Of course you won’t want that either you’ll shout Sweden or something similar and pretend that it’s the norm.
unident said:
There’s little point debating this as you constantly shift your position. This thread is not about AZ but you use that as your starting point for arguments.
What would you prefer long term data before anything is down so a decade of lockdowns? Of course you won’t want that either you’ll shout Sweden or something similar and pretend that it’s the norm.
What position do I change? My position is pretty clear at the moment, and it's not just around AZ - that is an example where the short term implications on young people as judged by experts has over time been viewed as something to avoid. So we do not know if long term issues will come up later for any vaccine, as we do not have the data, because the max time people have had vaccines is around 1 year.What would you prefer long term data before anything is down so a decade of lockdowns? Of course you won’t want that either you’ll shout Sweden or something similar and pretend that it’s the norm.
My position:
Vaccines have done a great job in the UK. The majority are done now, with all the at-risk people either having been jabbed or offered it. There is a risk from both long covid and the vaccines given long term, which we don't know fully yet, as neither have good data. This is because the pandemic has not been around long enough. We do know that a previously safe vaccine has been stopped for young people, as experts say despite it having a low fatality rate it is a slightly higher one than from Covid. As a result, and combined with a worldwide shortage of vaccines we should instead use the vaccines elsewhere in the world to treat people at far more risk, as this will save far more lives. Even if it turns out worst case there is issues with vaccines which emerge long term you'd be far more likely to save more lives giving the vaccine to these at risk people. Since Covid is spread across the world this will has the same impact on vaccine-dodging mutations as using the same jabs in the UK. In addition, it allows us more time to study the data from Covid and the vaccines. Depending on that data if we still think it is needed we can clear up the teens and kids with vaccines once the rest of the world has the people at risk jabbed.
And this doesn't mean years of lockdowns - do you not trust vaccines? I have belief in the science of the vaccines, that they will protect the at risk people who have either been jabbed or had the chance and declined it. Why do we need continued lockdowns given almost 80% are jabbed? Continue lifting restrictions and monitoring what happens. My prediction is we'll see a larger wave of covid cases as vaccines don't stop you getting and spreading it, but a much smaller wave of deaths from those who are at risk and declined the vaccines, plus some limited numbers of those who unfortunately are not able to get them or don't have enough of an immune system to fight it despite the vaccine. Unless we eradicate covid worldwide they'll sadly always die as even vaccinated people will be spreading covid around, just not getting very sick from it. This is assuming no vaccine-dodging mutation. In that case it's back to square one - but that will happen no matter where in the world it occurs.
And you forgot to answer a) or b) btw,
NRS said:
What position do I change? My position is pretty clear at the moment, and it's not just around AZ - that is an example where the short term implications on young people as judged by experts has over time been viewed as something to avoid. So we do not know if long term issues will come up later for any vaccine, as we do not have the data, because the max time people have had vaccines is around 1 year.
My position:
Vaccines have done a great job in the UK. The majority are done now, with all the at-risk people either having been jabbed or offered it. There is a risk from both long covid and the vaccines given long term, which we don't know fully yet, as neither have good data. This is because the pandemic has not been around long enough. We do know that a previously safe vaccine has been stopped for young people, as experts say despite it having a low fatality rate it is a slightly higher one than from Covid. As a result, and combined with a worldwide shortage of vaccines we should instead use the vaccines elsewhere in the world to treat people at far more risk, as this will save far more lives. Even if it turns out worst case there is issues with vaccines which emerge long term you'd be far more likely to save more lives giving the vaccine to these at risk people. Since Covid is spread across the world this will has the same impact on vaccine-dodging mutations as using the same jabs in the UK. In addition, it allows us more time to study the data from Covid and the vaccines. Depending on that data if we still think it is needed we can clear up the teens and kids with vaccines once the rest of the world has the people at risk jabbed.
And this doesn't mean years of lockdowns - do you not trust vaccines? I have belief in the science of the vaccines, that they will protect the at risk people who have either been jabbed or had the chance and declined it. Why do we need continued lockdowns given almost 80% are jabbed? Continue lifting restrictions and monitoring what happens. My prediction is we'll see a larger wave of covid cases as vaccines don't stop you getting and spreading it, but a much smaller wave of deaths from those who are at risk and declined the vaccines, plus some limited numbers of those who unfortunately are not able to get them or don't have enough of an immune system to fight it despite the vaccine. Unless we eradicate covid worldwide they'll sadly always die as even vaccinated people will be spreading covid around, just not getting very sick from it. This is assuming no vaccine-dodging mutation. In that case it's back to square one - but that will happen no matter where in the world it occurs.
And you forgot to answer a) or b) btw,
Nobody on here answers my questions, so be flattered that I started answering yours, but then got bored of the wibble. My position:
Vaccines have done a great job in the UK. The majority are done now, with all the at-risk people either having been jabbed or offered it. There is a risk from both long covid and the vaccines given long term, which we don't know fully yet, as neither have good data. This is because the pandemic has not been around long enough. We do know that a previously safe vaccine has been stopped for young people, as experts say despite it having a low fatality rate it is a slightly higher one than from Covid. As a result, and combined with a worldwide shortage of vaccines we should instead use the vaccines elsewhere in the world to treat people at far more risk, as this will save far more lives. Even if it turns out worst case there is issues with vaccines which emerge long term you'd be far more likely to save more lives giving the vaccine to these at risk people. Since Covid is spread across the world this will has the same impact on vaccine-dodging mutations as using the same jabs in the UK. In addition, it allows us more time to study the data from Covid and the vaccines. Depending on that data if we still think it is needed we can clear up the teens and kids with vaccines once the rest of the world has the people at risk jabbed.
And this doesn't mean years of lockdowns - do you not trust vaccines? I have belief in the science of the vaccines, that they will protect the at risk people who have either been jabbed or had the chance and declined it. Why do we need continued lockdowns given almost 80% are jabbed? Continue lifting restrictions and monitoring what happens. My prediction is we'll see a larger wave of covid cases as vaccines don't stop you getting and spreading it, but a much smaller wave of deaths from those who are at risk and declined the vaccines, plus some limited numbers of those who unfortunately are not able to get them or don't have enough of an immune system to fight it despite the vaccine. Unless we eradicate covid worldwide they'll sadly always die as even vaccinated people will be spreading covid around, just not getting very sick from it. This is assuming no vaccine-dodging mutation. In that case it's back to square one - but that will happen no matter where in the world it occurs.
And you forgot to answer a) or b) btw,
I’ve highlighted some more wibble above. They absolutely haven’t said that.
This thread is about Pfizer, but you keep banging on about Astra Zeneca. Can you see why it’s boring?
The idea that I’m opposed to vaccines is brilliant, absolutely brilliant and must be close to winning the non sequitur of the year award.
unident said:
Nobody on here answers my questions, so be flattered that I started answering yours, but then got bored of the wibble.
I’ve highlighted some more wibble above. They absolutely haven’t said that.
This thread is about Pfizer, but you keep banging on about Astra Zeneca. Can you see why it’s boring?
The idea that I’m opposed to vaccines is brilliant, absolutely brilliant and must be close to winning the non sequitur of the year award.
My wibble? I've made my position clear, which is clearly miles from the frothing anti-vaxxer you seem determined to put people into. You don't actually answer any questions on your own opinion. I’ve highlighted some more wibble above. They absolutely haven’t said that.
This thread is about Pfizer, but you keep banging on about Astra Zeneca. Can you see why it’s boring?
The idea that I’m opposed to vaccines is brilliant, absolutely brilliant and must be close to winning the non sequitur of the year award.
I've not made it about AZ. It's used as an example where we missed risks due to the lack of data - and is simply saying we might have the same for other vaccines. My main point is that IMO no point in giving ANY vaccines to kids in the UK currently, as there is far better people to use it on elsewhere in the world who are at far higher risk. In addition that gives time to have more data on long term effects of vaccines if we want to give it to kids once we have enough supplies. You avoid the question if you think it's right we should do a Britain First policy, or save many more lives policy, instead trying to put anyone who doesn't say to vacc the teens/kids into the fruitcake category.
I never said you're opposed to vaccines, just you don't seem to trust they work? We have around 90% of people with covid antibodies in the UK now. Why do you think we near years and years of lockdown in that situation?
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Just need to correct you here:I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
monkfish1 said:
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Just need to correct you here:I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Indeed there is little to discuss with people who choose to be ignorant.I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
As you’re happy to throw generalised insults around you wont mind be labelled a bed wetting, brainwashed moron, face nappy wearing karen.
Some people do think vaccines are the work of the devil, they are a small minority. Most rational people will conclude that having an EUA non sterilising vaccine is a personal choice, that injecting people/children that are not at risk from covid is not ethical, and that the hmg and media narrative is being maintained in plain sight. You would literally have to be deaf and dumb or in denial not to see and hear the words that are spoken that are contradictory or phrased to be misleading, to deliberately create fear. And it’s been documented ffs!
But carry on with your blinkered ‘belief’ of who and what people who dont want their kids injected are. You’re wrong even though you have convinced yourself otherwise.
soofsayer said:
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Indeed there is little to discuss with people who choose to be ignorant.I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
As you’re happy to throw generalised insults around you wont mind be labelled a bed wetting, brainwashed moron, face nappy wearing karen.
Some people do think vaccines are the work of the devil, they are a small minority. Most rational people will conclude that having an EUA non sterilising vaccine is a personal choice, that injecting people/children that are not at risk from covid is not ethical, and that the hmg and media narrative is being maintained in plain sight. You would literally have to be deaf and dumb or in denial not to see and hear the words that are spoken that are contradictory or phrased to be misleading, to deliberately create fear. And it’s been documented ffs!
But carry on with your blinkered ‘belief’ of who and what people who dont want their kids injected are. You’re wrong even though you have convinced yourself otherwise.
GMT13 said:
Shutting down other, safer treatments that don't stand to make them billions in the process is fine too?
Ivermectin is a cheap and readily available drug that has been proven to be very effective and yet it's use is blocked and doubt cast wherever possible. The politicisation of it has frustrated a lot of respected people in medicine. Search for Tess Lawrie.
https://twitter.com/drsamuelwhite_/status/14009028...
Maybe you can tell us what the possible side effects of Ivermectin are Dr GMT13?Ivermectin is a cheap and readily available drug that has been proven to be very effective and yet it's use is blocked and doubt cast wherever possible. The politicisation of it has frustrated a lot of respected people in medicine. Search for Tess Lawrie.
https://twitter.com/drsamuelwhite_/status/14009028...
Ivermectin has been used for over 40 years now, the side effects are similar to the side effects for the Covid vaccines, without the paralysis or or death or the long term auto immune issues that end with organ failure or......more death, that we have seen in trials.
Following on from my reply to unident earlier, thanks for taking the time to acknowledge it mate, I saw this article this evening.
This is backing up exactly why I think mRNA vaccines should never have rolled out passed the vulnerable.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer...
Following on from my reply to unident earlier, thanks for taking the time to acknowledge it mate, I saw this article this evening.
This is backing up exactly why I think mRNA vaccines should never have rolled out passed the vulnerable.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer...
gizlaroc said:
Ivermectin has been used for over 40 years now, the side effects are similar to the side effects for the Covid vaccines, without the paralysis or or death or the long term auto immune issues that end with organ failure or......more death, that we have seen in trials.
Do you have the trial links to hand? would be interested in having a read - eta as this thread is quite heated - this is genuine interest not trying to catch anyone out or start an argument! Edited by andy ted on Thursday 10th June 22:06
andy ted said:
Do you have the trial links to hand? would be interested in having a read - eta as this thread is quite heated - this is genuine interest not trying to catch anyone out or start an argument!
The mRNA trials?I had a web page that linked to them all, I sat and read them all during the lockdown, but I just had a look through my bookmarks and can't find it.
I have 422 pages saved on Covid and Vaccines etc. so might have just missed it.
I did post them up on the main Covid or anti-vax thread a few months back, I will try and search for that as well, as that had the direct links.
They are all out there to find, but if you search for biodistribution studies and mrna etc. you will find them.
The problem of course now is mRNA and Vaccine is probably one of the biggest searches on the net and probably the most talked about thing on the net too, so now far harder to find stuff than it was last year or even back at the start of this year.
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Just wondering why you the experts who know more than you or I ever will have either put strong restrictions (for example UK) or banned it altogether (Norway, Denmark as a few examples) if covid clotting is a much higher risk than AZ? I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
I'd agree there is a bunch of nutters on PH who there's not much chance of reasoning with, but I'd suspect some are less nutters than you might think, when reading exactly what they are saying. Of course it's not easy sometimes as any argument will be used to help a case, but there is a lot more grey area betwen Vaccines = perfection and vaccines = space aliens trying to control us.
monkfish1 said:
Just need to correct you here:
Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
I don't think it's a conspiracy theory to control us. I think the possible slow(er) lifting of restrictions is likely to avoid any bad coverage in the media. It's very easy to push "one life lost is a life too many" as the government being bad, as there has been no balance to consider the lives lost due to reduced medical care for other things, not to mention long term health damage as most of us have got fatter and lazier under covid. So given the press coverage they are likely basing the usual strategy on what works best for public opinion.Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
The CDC has called an emergency meeting to investigate a spike in cases of myocarditis and pericarditis in the younger population following Pfizer & Moderna vaccinations.
Which country will break from the pack and be the first to suspend the use of these vaccinations whilst further tests / investigations are undertaken ?
Which country will break from the pack and be the first to suspend the use of these vaccinations whilst further tests / investigations are undertaken ?
NRS said:
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Just wondering why you the experts who know more than you or I ever will have either put strong restrictions (for example UK) or banned it altogether (Norway, Denmark as a few examples) if covid clotting is a much higher risk than AZ? I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
I'd agree there is a bunch of nutters on PH who there's not much chance of reasoning with, but I'd suspect some are less nutters than you might think, when reading exactly what they are saying. Of course it's not easy sometimes as any argument will be used to help a case, but there is a lot more grey area betwen Vaccines = perfection and vaccines = space aliens trying to control us.
Once again, this thread isn’t about AZ. As a result this is the last time I’m going to answer or make any point around it, you’re welcome to carry on heading off in any direction you want though.
I agree with your point on the extremes. However, I’ve never claimed vaccines are perfect. Equally, look at some of the posts on here. You’ve got gizlaroc posting all sorts of drivel and others lapping it up, as if he’s just discovered the wheel.
NRS said:
unident said:
Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion
I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
Just wondering why you the experts who know more than you or I ever will have either put strong restrictions (for example UK) or banned it altogether (Norway, Denmark as a few examples) if covid clotting is a much higher risk than AZ? I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.
Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.
I'd agree there is a bunch of nutters on PH who there's not much chance of reasoning with, but I'd suspect some are less nutters than you might think, when reading exactly what they are saying. Of course it's not easy sometimes as any argument will be used to help a case, but there is a lot more grey area betwen Vaccines = perfection and vaccines = space aliens trying to control us.
monkfish1 said:
Just need to correct you here:
Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
I don't think it's a conspiracy theory to control us. I think the possible slow(er) lifting of restrictions is likely to avoid any bad coverage in the media. It's very easy to push "one life lost is a life too many" as the government being bad, as there has been no balance to consider the lives lost due to reduced medical care for other things, not to mention long term health damage as most of us have got fatter and lazier under covid. So given the press coverage they are likely basing the usual strategy on what works best for public opinion.Vaccines clearly are not the way out of this, or we would be free already.
Ok, technically they probably are and certainly could be, but HMG wont allow that.
My statement stands, it clear, vaccination isnt getting us the release from restrictions that we were promised.
The reasons why are a seperate debate, but even the most optimistic must see now that the promise has turned out to be a lie.
SS2. said:
The CDC has called an emergency meeting to investigate a spike in cases of myocarditis and pericarditis in the younger population following Pfizer & Moderna vaccinations.
Which country will break from the pack and be the first to suspend the use of these vaccinations whilst further tests / investigations are undertaken ?
Germany seems to be the first. Which country will break from the pack and be the first to suspend the use of these vaccinations whilst further tests / investigations are undertaken ?
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