UK approves Pfizer jab for use in 12-15-year-olds
Discussion
unident said:
So now the vaccines are Ok, because people are vaccinated, but the vaccines aren’t Ok because we might see random things that you’ve decided are valid. You just chop and change your argument. If you’ve decided we’re basing this on where we are then all hypothetical arguments go out of the window.
It's perfectly correct to say it helps with the vaccine, but we don't have evidence on the long term implications of the vaccines, given no data exists. And that AZ has some short term issues which lead medical experts to restrict it, but there is nothing major seen with Pfizer at the moment. That's exactly how things are now. If it's not the case just post the data to refute it. One of the big bigger early risks from mRNA vaccines was a possible risk of a cytokine storm, which seems to be pretty well proven not to be an issue, as we have the data. But we don't have the longer term data. Some people will then view it as risky to jab large parts of the population with one vaccine type, given that IF something happens we've f
ked a huge part of the population going forward. What's the chance of that? I'd say small, but it is a big gamble. unident said:
Define long term for me. That never gets answered.
Foreign vs British is overly simplistic. There are considerations around where the vaccines are currently, storage and transport challenges and so on.
I’m sure you love your binary world, but there are many, many more numbers than 1 or 0
You did have previous answers. For me it'd be probably at least a few years. In that time you could do a lot of the most risk people in the rest of the world, and it would give time to see if it has impacts on stuff like pregnancy. This is NOT to say it is likely there is something with pregnancy, BUT that we don't have data on it. Which is a risk in itself, given unexpected stuff that can happen. It is why we normally do longer term testing in promising medical developments. Do you not remember stories where a new promising cancer treatment is available, but it is mentioned it will likely take 10 years before it is available due to the testing etc that needs done? Foreign vs British is overly simplistic. There are considerations around where the vaccines are currently, storage and transport challenges and so on.
I’m sure you love your binary world, but there are many, many more numbers than 1 or 0
Edited by unident on Monday 14th June 20:12
Look at the normal approval time (around 10 years) and why:
https://www.fda.gov/patients/drug-development-proc...
Medically the stuff I am saying is the normal, it's only for some people and Covid that it is normal to use it on a lot of people without the data existing on long term safety. Now there is some obvious reasons for it, but it's also understandable why some will have concerns given the complete lack of data. As I said before, I have an MSc from Imperial (albeit it in a different area) - it's perfectly fine to recognise that there is no data and in the worst case it could lead to issues, because of the lack of data. And this process has not been normal compared to normal timelines. That's very different to saying it's full of computer chips to control you.
Believing in something is a religion or scientific hypothesis. Having data behind something proves up a theory and makes it a fact. Given there is no long term data for the impacts of vaccines on people you can only say they are safe from a hypothesis or faith currently.
As for the the Best to be British/foreigners then not really, the vaccines are supply limited in the UK, so it's pretty clear they are are not just sitting around for ages in the UK, otherwise they'd be given out to people. We've been up around 7-800 000 before near the peak, so the current numbers are supply limited. Even if they were sitting in the UK or Europe they'll be made in the same place and shipped to the rest of the world in the same way, so although it is more complex that the easy question it's not nearly the same dodging behind complexity that you try and hide behind. If we believe it will save a lot more lives and that is important just stop the import of vaccines from other countries and let them be ordered by the countries with greater need. The stats clearly show vaccines have been bought up by the rich countries.
Edited by NRS on Monday 14th June 23:13
I have to say, Unident is putting in a shift on this thread. The 77th brigade must pay him well…
On topic, not safe for kids in my opinion and not for pilots either it seems. The poor families of the BA pilots who all had unrelated deaths around the same time in a unrelated way to the change of position by united airlines on mandating compulsory vaccination at a similar but unrelated time.
On topic, not safe for kids in my opinion and not for pilots either it seems. The poor families of the BA pilots who all had unrelated deaths around the same time in a unrelated way to the change of position by united airlines on mandating compulsory vaccination at a similar but unrelated time.
TV8 said:
I have to say, Unident is putting in a shift on this thread. The 77th brigade must pay him well…
On topic, not safe for kids in my opinion and not for pilots either it seems. The poor families of the BA pilots who all had unrelated deaths around the same time in a unrelated way to the change of position by united airlines on mandating compulsory vaccination at a similar but unrelated time.
What are you waffling on about now?On topic, not safe for kids in my opinion and not for pilots either it seems. The poor families of the BA pilots who all had unrelated deaths around the same time in a unrelated way to the change of position by united airlines on mandating compulsory vaccination at a similar but unrelated time.
Was it BA pilots, or United Airlines? What change in position? What unrelated deaths? Link?
The vaccination programme has run its course for better or for worse and this week much like previous weeks we have had between 0 and 16 Covid deaths a day.
Why on Earth do they feel they need to continue vaccinating people in this country?
Considering moving it onto kids is beyond the pale. Shameful.
Why on Earth do they feel they need to continue vaccinating people in this country?
Considering moving it onto kids is beyond the pale. Shameful.
Elatino1 said:
The vaccination programme has run its course for better or for worse and this week much like previous weeks we have had between 0 and 16 Covid deaths a day.
Why on Earth do they feel they need to continue vaccinating people in this country?
Considering moving it onto kids is beyond the pale. Shameful.
Totally agree - it sadly, I suspect we may end up being in the minority. A lot of people have been taken in by all the underhand tactics the government behavioral scientists have used on the population.Why on Earth do they feel they need to continue vaccinating people in this country?
Considering moving it onto kids is beyond the pale. Shameful.
All for a virus that has a survival rate of 99% and where the vulnerable, who do have a higher CFR have virtually all been vaccinated twice.
I am glad my children are all grown up now.
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