Freedom Day, June 21st, will go ahead.

[AJL308]

Teddy Lop said:

AJL308 said:

I don't think they have but I'm willing to be corrected. The BBC and others are saying "may be delayed". The Gvt have been very clear that a decision will not (officially) be made until Monday. Do you have a link to it?

The modus operandi seems to be that media gets to suggest what might happen first to soften us all up

Why does anyone think that that is in anyway out of the ordinary? The media offers opinion on what's coming on all range of matters.

Suggesting that the media (all of them) are being manipulated to do the government's bidding is nonsense, quite frankly.

[djc206]

AJL308 said:

Why does anyone think that that is in anyway out of the ordinary? The media offers opinion on what's coming on all range of matters.

Suggesting that the media (all of them) are being manipulated to do the government's bidding is nonsense, quite frankly.

They’re not being manipulated they are most definitely having info leaked to them to soften the blow of each announcement though. It’s good for them to get the story ahead of the announcement and it’s good for the govt. no manipulation just a mutually beneficial relationship.

[Maximus_Meridius101]

AJL308 said:

Why does anyone think that that is in anyway out of the ordinary? The media offers opinion on what's coming on all range of matters.

Suggesting that the media (all of them) are being manipulated to do the government's bidding is nonsense, quite frankly.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/loc...

Here’s a ‘softened up’ link.

[AJL308]

williamp said:

Every single time the science projections have been wrong. What the said could happen xidnt happen. The numbers they said could happen, didnt happen.

Isn't that because restrictions were put in place? Lots of hospitals were at breaking point - they would have exceeded breaking point had the lockdown not been in place, surely? Are are you suggesting that had no measures been implemented the figures would have been the same?

[liner33]

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

liner33 said:

If they can justify this with less than 20 deaths per day they can justify anything.

It’s not just deaths though. The cases only have to reach hospital and the st hits the fan. As of yesterday there were 223 hospitalisations, which isn’t the problem. The biggest problem is that 23 of those are fully vaccinated. That’s why the government are stting bricks.

and 1000 people get diagnosed with cancer every day . Your argument like the Governments is we should lock down because the NHS cant cope , that's not valid imo

[AJL308]

djc206 said:

AJL308 said:

Why does anyone think that that is in anyway out of the ordinary? The media offers opinion on what's coming on all range of matters.

Suggesting that the media (all of them) are being manipulated to do the government's bidding is nonsense, quite frankly.

They’re not being manipulated they are most definitely having info leaked to them to soften the blow of each announcement though. It’s good for them to get the story ahead of the announcement and it’s good for the govt. no manipulation just a mutually beneficial relationship.

"Leaked" is too strong. They've said things like a minister today told me/suggested/thought and suchlike. That is not a leak it is perfectly normal journalism. Happens all the time.

[AJL308]

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

AJL308 said:

Why does anyone think that that is in anyway out of the ordinary? The media offers opinion on what's coming on all range of matters.

Suggesting that the media (all of them) are being manipulated to do the government's bidding is nonsense, quite frankly.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/loc...

Here’s a ‘softened up’ link.

And?

[AJL308]

liner33 said:

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

liner33 said:

If they can justify this with less than 20 deaths per day they can justify anything.

It’s not just deaths though. The cases only have to reach hospital and the st hits the fan. As of yesterday there were 223 hospitalisations, which isn’t the problem. The biggest problem is that 23 of those are fully vaccinated. That’s why the government are stting bricks.

and 1000 people get diagnosed with cancer every day . Your argument like the Governments is we should lock down because the NHS cant cope , that's not valid imo

When did you last hear of 10 people with cancer transmitting it to 14 others?

If people can't see the difference between a highly contagious disease and cancer then were fked, quite honestly.

[Maximus_Meridius101]

AJL308 said:

And?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1448733/Lockdown...

Here’s the original link, although that’s been softened up a bit. It was the express, not the Gurniad.

Edited by Maximus_Meridius101 on Saturday 12th June 12:57

[djc206]

AJL308 said:

"Leaked" is too strong. They've said things like a minister today told me/suggested/thought and suchlike. That is not a leak it is perfectly normal journalism. Happens all the time.

Leaked is too weak if anything. The government hands over its plans to the media in advance of the public announcements to have them published to soften the blow and test the reaction. It’s calculated so you’re right it’s not a leak. You’re right though it is normal, cowardly but normal.

[Maximus_Meridius101]

djc206 said:

Leaked is too weak if anything. The government hands over its plans to the media in advance of the public announcements to have them published to soften the blow and test the reaction. It’s calculated so you’re right it’s not a leak. You’re right though it is normal, cowardly but normal.

Quite right.

[Crafty_]

AJL308 said:

I don't think that's the case at all. We all know that there won't be a workable level of protection until something like 80% of the population are vaccinated. They aren't yet. The vaccination programme is clearly working as case numbers fell dramatically. Yes, it was due to the other elements as well but largely the vaccines.

Don't think I'm saying this because I'm some sort of government appeasing automaton who likes to be controlled - I'm not and I don't. In fact it's starting to get to me quite a bit now. What's the alternative if we don't have the required level of vaccinations? Not continuing this until it's logical end may turn out to be worse than another 4 weeks under these regs.

AJL308 said:

They haven't been given to enough people. That doesn't mean they are not the answer. You don't stop a house build half way though because you've concluded it's pointless because the rain is coming in due to you not having put the roof on yet.

As far as I can determine, the level of vaccinations are at least where they expected to be or better.

Why why plan for a relaxation of rules that they never intended to carry out ?

If we're at 78% now and Boris is stting himself do you honestly believe that another 2% will suddenly make it all ok again ?

No, me either. This is going to be a perpetual loop oh "oh, not yet, we cant do that" and then the next day talking about "building back better".

[Teddy Lop]

djc206 said:

Leaked is too weak if anything. The government hands over its plans to the media in advance of the public announcements to have them published to soften the blow and test the reaction. It’s calculated so you’re right it’s not a leak. You’re right though it is normal, cowardly but normal.

Yup. I'm amazed anyone finds the idea controversial, it's the tawdry way politics is done today.

[liner33]

AJL308 said:

When did you last hear of 10 people with cancer transmitting it to 14 others?

If people can't see the difference between a highly contagious disease and cancer then were fked, quite honestly.

ahh so like the flu then, understood, will look forward to the annual Christmas lockdowns then.

[Cold]

There appears to be a circular argument being put forward here.

On the one hand we need to keep restrictions in place until everyone is vaccinated, on the other a handful of vaccinated deaths means we need to keep restrictions in place because the vaccines don't work.

Complete nonsense.

[Brave Fart]

AJL308 said:

When did you last hear of 10 people with cancer transmitting it to 14 others?

If people can't see the difference between a highly contagious disease and cancer then were fked, quite honestly.

Well, some people think that destroying hospitality, neglecting non-covid healthcare and damaging mental health is worth it to vaccinate more people - namely, the healthy under 40's. Who have an IFR of around 0.05% according to the CDC. I imagine you're one of them.
I'm not. I think we're well past the point where the harm caused by restrictions exceeds the benefits of continuing those restrictions.

[JagLover]

pquinn said:

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

The press release is out. It’s delayed until July the 19th at the earliest.

In 2023.

An optimist

The reason why so many were accurately able to predict what would happen is because this has little to do with a moderately dangerous virus anymore. With the successful vaccination program this is no longer a serious threat to public health. What we have at the moment is a "casedemic" and one more concentrated in younger people who are of of a tiny risk from this, even when unvaccinated.

[AJL308]

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

djc206 said:

Leaked is too weak if anything. The government hands over its plans to the media in advance of the public announcements to have them published to soften the blow and test the reaction. It’s calculated so you’re right it’s not a leak. You’re right though it is normal, cowardly but normal.

Quite right.

Every government works the same. The current situation is one they cannot win. People are suggesting that they should say absolutely, 100% nothing to anyone until 17:00 hrs on Monday. So, come that time, everyone when expecting to be released from any restriction will be told that they won't be. A massive blow to everyone, businesses have no expectation of it and everyone goes nuts. That is your preferable scenario - really?

This is how the world works, has always worked and anyone expecting differently is deluded.

[AJL308]

Crafty_ said:

AJL308 said:

I don't think that's the case at all. We all know that there won't be a workable level of protection until something like 80% of the population are vaccinated. They aren't yet. The vaccination programme is clearly working as case numbers fell dramatically. Yes, it was due to the other elements as well but largely the vaccines.

Don't think I'm saying this because I'm some sort of government appeasing automaton who likes to be controlled - I'm not and I don't. In fact it's starting to get to me quite a bit now. What's the alternative if we don't have the required level of vaccinations? Not continuing this until it's logical end may turn out to be worse than another 4 weeks under these regs.

AJL308 said:

They haven't been given to enough people. That doesn't mean they are not the answer. You don't stop a house build half way though because you've concluded it's pointless because the rain is coming in due to you not having put the roof on yet.

As far as I can determine, the level of vaccinations are at least where they expected to be or better.

Why why plan for a relaxation of rules that they never intended to carry out ?

If we're at 78% now and Boris is stting himself do you honestly believe that another 2% will suddenly make it all ok again ?

No, me either. This is going to be a perpetual loop oh "oh, not yet, we cant do that" and then the next day talking about "building back better".

I don't think we are anywhere near 78% of the population having had the two doses.

[JagLover]

pquinn said:

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

The biggest problem is that 23 of those are fully vaccinated.

Hospitalised by Covid, or for something unrelated while testing positive for a mild asymptomatic infection?

The bare stats are useless except for telling you a virus is circulating.

Soon they will split out hospitalised cases between "being treated for Covid" and "admitted for something else and just happened to test positive"

Quite why it took over a year to make such a basic common sense decision I have no idea.

They are testing 700,000 people a day so they are bound to find many who happened to test positive while being treated for other things, particularly among the elderly.