What would middle-class rebellion look like?
Discussion
There's nothing for the middle classes in general to rebel against, the government gives them exactly what they want. Lockdowns so far have been very popular, otherwise the government wouldn't do it. See the more Republican parts of the US for an example, where the middle classes lean in a different political direction.
r/GME
That's what it looks like.
The rich don't fear the peasantry because if they put all of their wealth together they can't do much and risk losing everything. Also they are easily placated by bread and circuses.
The middle classes have 5 to 10 grand each to spare. They could lose it and not lose anything they have, let alone the shirt on their back. Thus what has happened with GME/GameStop, a whole bunch of middle class people got organised and made the rich pay.
Without a single bullet or march.
The rich fear that the middle class, if we ever get organised, will do a lot of damage to powebase of the wealthy whilst the middle class increases their own fortunes... Hence they want to keep us middle class afraid of the poor and each other, who are no threat to us.
That's what it looks like.
The rich don't fear the peasantry because if they put all of their wealth together they can't do much and risk losing everything. Also they are easily placated by bread and circuses.
The middle classes have 5 to 10 grand each to spare. They could lose it and not lose anything they have, let alone the shirt on their back. Thus what has happened with GME/GameStop, a whole bunch of middle class people got organised and made the rich pay.
Without a single bullet or march.
The rich fear that the middle class, if we ever get organised, will do a lot of damage to powebase of the wealthy whilst the middle class increases their own fortunes... Hence they want to keep us middle class afraid of the poor and each other, who are no threat to us.
The problem is not PR or FPTP, it’s entrenched voting habits and tribalism (for both sides).
You complain about what’s happening but who are you going to vote for next time around? How many times have I read on these pages that you can’t stand what Boris is doing but will still vote for him come the next election because ‘the other guy is worse’. It’s trite.
We get what we deserve and unless you’re willing to hold your nose and vote for the alternative then you’ve only got yourself to blame and talk of taking some sort of civil disobedience is for the birds.
I’ll caveat that by saying if the party in power were reversed, I’d still think the same.
You complain about what’s happening but who are you going to vote for next time around? How many times have I read on these pages that you can’t stand what Boris is doing but will still vote for him come the next election because ‘the other guy is worse’. It’s trite.
We get what we deserve and unless you’re willing to hold your nose and vote for the alternative then you’ve only got yourself to blame and talk of taking some sort of civil disobedience is for the birds.
I’ll caveat that by saying if the party in power were reversed, I’d still think the same.
I can’t really think of any Government that has handled CV-19 well. The problem as I see it is as soon as a Government has a sniff of more power, more control, they’ll take it and never, ever relinquish that power, (see The Patriot Act, Snoopers Charter etc).
What we’ve also unfortunately seen in America over the last couple of years is that extreme political violence, (sorry, I meant ”peaceful protests”, and media manipulation work very well in changing political policy.
I absolutely do not agree with such tactics, but they seem to be the only ones that work.
You can lobby your local MP all you like. If they don’t agree with your message then your email will simply be ignored because you are a pleb and your single vote doesn’t matter to them.
What we’ve also unfortunately seen in America over the last couple of years is that extreme political violence, (sorry, I meant ”peaceful protests”, and media manipulation work very well in changing political policy.
I absolutely do not agree with such tactics, but they seem to be the only ones that work.
You can lobby your local MP all you like. If they don’t agree with your message then your email will simply be ignored because you are a pleb and your single vote doesn’t matter to them.
105.4 said:
I can’t really think of any Government that has handled CV-19 well. The problem as I see it is as soon as a Government has a sniff of more power, more control, they’ll take it and never, ever relinquish that power, (see The Patriot Act, Snoopers Charter etc).
What we’ve also unfortunately seen in America over the last couple of years is that extreme political violence, (sorry, I meant ”peaceful protests”, and media manipulation work very well in changing political policy.
I absolutely do not agree with such tactics, but they seem to be the only ones that work.
You can lobby your local MP all you like. If they don’t agree with your message then your email will simply be ignored because you are a pleb and your single vote doesn’t matter to them.
How have south korea done ?What we’ve also unfortunately seen in America over the last couple of years is that extreme political violence, (sorry, I meant ”peaceful protests”, and media manipulation work very well in changing political policy.
I absolutely do not agree with such tactics, but they seem to be the only ones that work.
You can lobby your local MP all you like. If they don’t agree with your message then your email will simply be ignored because you are a pleb and your single vote doesn’t matter to them.
They've had recent experience of dealing with sars and tracing apps on mobiles isn't voluntary .
Kermit power said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Kermit power said:
More a case that getting to the point where most of the middle classes have nobody to vote for that really represents them is the part that's Blair's fault.
Whatever you might think of him the man won three elections with stonking majorities which suggests he has some idea what the middle classes want(ed).It isn't Blair's fault that the choice at the last election was between two candidates who were (and are) unfit for public office.
Want to know why you've got the Government you've got?
Look in the mirror I'm afraid.
As for the last election, for the first time in my life, I didn't vote Conservative. More importantly, I also voted in favour of PR when that was put to a referendum. I can look in the mirror with a clear conscience.
Likewise on voting for neither of them the point was more that people vote for the same thing and wonder why they've got the same thing.
egor110 said:
How have south korea done ?
They've had recent experience of dealing with sars and tracing apps on mobiles isn't voluntary .
To be perfectly honest with you egor, I’m not sure how SK have done over the last 18 months.They've had recent experience of dealing with sars and tracing apps on mobiles isn't voluntary .
Maybe I should have worded my point differently to ‘Western Governments’? And yes, I know that SK is a western style democracy, but there I would imagine that there is also the Asian mindset of doing what you are told to factor in as well.
105.4 said:
egor110 said:
How have south korea done ?
They've had recent experience of dealing with sars and tracing apps on mobiles isn't voluntary .
To be perfectly honest with you egor, I’m not sure how SK have done over the last 18 months.They've had recent experience of dealing with sars and tracing apps on mobiles isn't voluntary .
Maybe I should have worded my point differently to ‘Western Governments’? And yes, I know that SK is a western style democracy, but there I would imagine that there is also the Asian mindset of doing what you are told to factor in as well.
Although in saying that you'd think Russia would of got it's s
t together by forcing the population to comply .Kermit power said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Handling of a pandemic by a Government that's been in power for 11 years and it's all Tony Blair's fault.
Brilliant
More a case that getting to the point where most of the middle classes have nobody to vote for that really represents them is the part that's Blair's fault.Brilliant
Anyway, the middle classes wont protest because comfortable people aren't motivated to.
"What do we want?" "Slightly more money than we have now!" "When do we want it?" "Fairly soon, if possible!"
we are already doing it by ignoring their silly laws... trouble is that now having done that for a year then other laws seem less important. we are well on the way to anarchy without the revolution or violence.
it will be interesting to see how the gov. deal with it in the long term.
it will be interesting to see how the gov. deal with it in the long term.
egor110 said:
That's probably the crux of the matter , look at japan/korea they comply and do what's best for the country whereas we all think we're above that , we're all a little bit better and the rules don't apply to us .
Although in saying that you'd think Russia would of got it's st together by forcing the population to comply .
A whole section of South East Asia has had very mild epidemics.Although in saying that you'd think Russia would of got it's s
t together by forcing the population to comply .There is no reason to believe that blind obedience to government was a factor. Though of course the governments will claim that it was.
Vanden Saab said:
we are already doing it by ignoring their silly laws... trouble is that now having done that for a year then other laws seem less important. we are well on the way to anarchy without the revolution or violence.
it will be interesting to see how the gov. deal with it in the long term.
Speak for yourself. I can’t think of any laws, silly or otherwise that I’m ignoring. it will be interesting to see how the gov. deal with it in the long term.
dmahon said:
I disagree with your premise that more and more people are getting sick of it, at least to the extent they would do something about it. Most people have been lapping up this nonsense all year and actively calling for more of it.
See how they feel when furlough and other support ends or when they go back to work and their business is no longer viable.abzmike said:
Anyone that voted for this government has no right to protest about anything. They knew exactly what they were getting. Covid has just amplified and magnified the levels of incompetence on display.
Why?What makes you think they should give up their right to protest, critisise and make their voice heard.
Is it just that you don't want anyone critising the Tories? I doubt your opinion would be the same if Labour was in power.
The fact is, a democracy, particularly a two party system needs to have people critisise the government and the supporters should be the most critical with none being more critical than a sitting member of the ruling party. They should represent their constituents, not their party.
Alas with the Tories this is not the case. Their rank and file are told to shut up, their members told to toe the line and their parliamentarians are punished if they dare say anything that could be slightly critical.
Anyone should be able to protest peacefully, regardless of what others think... Even the idiot anti-maskers (although they didn't keep it peaceful), I view it in a very Voltaire way, I disagree with what they are saying, but defend their right to say it (as I also wish to be able to claim the same right).
captain_cynic said:
Why?
What makes you think they should give up their right to protest, critisise and make their voice heard.
Is it just that you don't want anyone critising the Tories? I doubt your opinion would be the same if Labour was in power.
The fact is, a democracy, particularly a two party system needs to have people critisise the government and the supporters should be the most critical with none being more critical than a sitting member of the ruling party. They should represent their constituents, not their party.
Alas with the Tories this is not the case. Their rank and file are told to shut up, their members told to toe the line and their parliamentarians are punished if they dare say anything that could be slightly critical.
Anyone should be able to protest peacefully, regardless of what others think... Even the idiot anti-maskers (although they didn't keep it peaceful), I view it in a very Voltaire way, I disagree with what they are saying, but defend their right to say it (as I also wish to be able to claim the same right).
I absolutely do think the Tories should be protested against - just not by those that put then into power knowing precisely what they were going to get. What makes you think they should give up their right to protest, critisise and make their voice heard.
Is it just that you don't want anyone critising the Tories? I doubt your opinion would be the same if Labour was in power.
The fact is, a democracy, particularly a two party system needs to have people critisise the government and the supporters should be the most critical with none being more critical than a sitting member of the ruling party. They should represent their constituents, not their party.
Alas with the Tories this is not the case. Their rank and file are told to shut up, their members told to toe the line and their parliamentarians are punished if they dare say anything that could be slightly critical.
Anyone should be able to protest peacefully, regardless of what others think... Even the idiot anti-maskers (although they didn't keep it peaceful), I view it in a very Voltaire way, I disagree with what they are saying, but defend their right to say it (as I also wish to be able to claim the same right).
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