What would middle-class rebellion look like?

[Kermit power]

egor110 said:

O/P re general strike being ok if you have a union to support you , you understand if you strike the unions don't pay you , you loose your pay the same as any other person would .

I do fully understand that. The difference is that having union representation means having a centralised representative for government to engage with, so it's more likely that a resolution will be reached before you're forced back to work by economics. I suspect it also provides you with rather better protection should your employer decide to sack you for not showing up.

[Kermit power]

valiant said:

The problem is not PR or FPTP, it’s entrenched voting habits and tribalism (for both sides).

You complain about what’s happening but who are you going to vote for next time around? How many times have I read on these pages that you can’t stand what Boris is doing but will still vote for him come the next election because ‘the other guy is worse’. It’s trite.

We get what we deserve and unless you’re willing to hold your nose and vote for the alternative then you’ve only got yourself to blame and talk of taking some sort of civil disobedience is for the birds.

I’ll caveat that by saying if the party in power were reversed, I’d still think the same.

I voted for PR when the opportunity was offered to me in the hope that it might allow smaller parties that better represent me to come through.

At the last GE, I voted LibDem for the first time in my life, because they were the only people still trying to fight the outrageous con job that was Brexit.

I have simply no idea who to vote for next time. Neither of the two parties with any chance of gaining power represent me, and nobody else stands a chance of winning.

Having said that, who I vote for seems pretty irrelevant anyway! I've never in my entire adult life lived in a constituency where the successful candidate took less than 45% of the vote, so the chances of me influencing the party of government are incredibly remote...

[Vanden Saab]

Kermit power said:

valiant said:

The problem is not PR or FPTP, it’s entrenched voting habits and tribalism (for both sides).

You complain about what’s happening but who are you going to vote for next time around? How many times have I read on these pages that you can’t stand what Boris is doing but will still vote for him come the next election because ‘the other guy is worse’. It’s trite.

We get what we deserve and unless you’re willing to hold your nose and vote for the alternative then you’ve only got yourself to blame and talk of taking some sort of civil disobedience is for the birds.

I’ll caveat that by saying if the party in power were reversed, I’d still think the same.

I voted for PR when the opportunity was offered to me in the hope that it might allow smaller parties that better represent me to come through.

At the last GE, I voted LibDem for the first time in my life, because they were the only people still trying to fight the outrageous con job that was Brexit.

I have simply no idea who to vote for next time. Neither of the two parties with any chance of gaining power represent me, and nobody else stands a chance of winning.

Having said that, who I vote for seems pretty irrelevant anyway! I've never in my entire adult life lived in a constituency where the successful candidate took less than 45% of the vote, so the chances of me influencing the party of government are incredibly remote...

You were the one, I wondered who voted Lib Dem and you voted for a party that was standing on a platform of overturning Democracy but at the same time voted for PR so there could be more Democracy. Ah no, you are just in a small minority who think you can tell the majority what to do if you have PR

[Ivan stewart]

Kermit power said:

I voted for PR when the opportunity was offered to me in the hope that it might allow smaller parties that better represent me to come through.

At the last GE, I voted LibDem for the first time in my life, because they were the only people still trying to fight the outrageous con job that was Brexit.

I have simply no idea who to vote for next time. Neither of the two parties with any chance of gaining power represent me, and nobody else stands a chance of winning.

Having said that, who I vote for seems pretty irrelevant anyway! I've never in my entire adult life lived in a constituency where the successful candidate took less than 45% of the vote, so the chances of me influencing the party of government are incredibly remote...

At the last election I voted Tory, they were the only party accepting a democratic vote and fighting the outrageous con job that the EU became .
Not sure what could be better than Boris and co maybe Richard Tice’s lot ??

[A500leroy]

They already have, they call themselves extinction rebellion, Anyone working class cant afford to sit in the street for a week with a diesel van and a boat.

[valiant]

Ivan stewart said:

At the last election I voted Tory, they were the only party accepting a democratic vote and fighting the outrageous con job that the EU became .
Not sure what could be better than Boris and co maybe Richard Tice’s lot ??

Richard Tice’s lot had, if I recall correctly, subscribers not members so you had no say in how the party was run.

Hardly democratic were they…

[Kermit power]

Vanden Saab said:

You were the one, I wondered who voted Lib Dem and you voted for a party that was standing on a platform of overturning Democracy but at the same time voted for PR so there could be more Democracy. Ah no, you are just in a small minority who think you can tell the majority what to do if you have PR

Don't be absurd. We "overturn democracy" every time we have a vote. The referendum wasn't binding in the first place, and I don't recall anything in the question I was asked saying anything about surrendering all rights to further debate/action on the matter as a result of the vote either.

[FWIW]

Kermit power said:

Don't be absurd. We "overturn democracy" every time we have a vote. The referendum wasn't binding in the first place, and I don't recall anything in the question I was asked saying anything about surrendering all rights to further debate/action on the matter as a result of the vote either.

Awe…bless x

[xx99xx]

In my experience, each political party is as good/bad as the other. Despite living through several different governments over the last 30 years (as an adult) I honestly haven't noticed any difference in my life, regardless of who was in power.

As for a middle class rebellion, it'll never happen.

[hyphen]

A500leroy said:

They already have, they call themselves extinction rebellion, Anyone working class cant afford to sit in the street for a week with a diesel van and a boat.

That wasn't middle class. That was students, celebs and the rich.

[hyphen]

Kermit power said:

So what happens when levels of dissatisfaction amongst those who do own the cars or the shops and work therein reaches a similar boiling point?

It increasingly looks like Boris and co are going to extend Covid restrictions beyond the 21st, and whether or not you personally believe that's a sensible, rational decision or utterly bonkers - and let's not discuss that on this thread, as there are plenty of others for that - I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that a significant and increasing proportion of the population are losing all patience with this, so how do they respond?

If Furlough pay continues, then the rebellion will be as follows:




If furlough pay is cancelled, then it will be:

[Johnnytheboy]

The Countryside Alliance march.

[Derek Smith]

Want to know what a middle class attempt at a coup would be like? Read up on the Boudicca Revolt,. It caused more death and destruction than any Roman battle in their foray into England. She was miffed at losing authority, so she went off and massacred 70,000+ farmers, town dwellers.peasants and such, indulging in torture despite the vast majority of those killed not being Romans, right up until she she actually met a Roman army, albeit a small one.

Then there was the misnamed Peasants Revolt where the middle-class again went on the rampage but they, at least, killed only a few in comparison to the woman who has had a number of statues erected to her myth, but again it collapsed once they confronted authority.

Not overly impressive results but something to be frightened of. A bit like the demo against live animal exports which got a number of middle class, mainly female, people who were so sure they were in the right that they were willing to lie, assault and riot in a just cause.

[Fishlegs]

Middle-class Rebellion would be obstinately driving round in a V8 when everyone else went Hybrid years ago.

[Oilchange]

What about a hybrid V8?

[Fishlegs]

I don't think any class had that combo, but if they did they'd just get crippled with Balance of Performance.

[oyster]

Kermit power said:

We've all seen riots in the streets, be it here or elsewhere... They tend to draw a lot of attention, but at the risk of stereotyping the rioters, I think it's probably safe to say that those burning cars and looting shops probably don't as a rule own the cars in question, nor work in, supply or insure the shops.

So what happens when levels of dissatisfaction amongst those who do own the cars or the shops and work therein reaches a similar boiling point?

It increasingly looks like Boris and co are going to extend Covid restrictions beyond the 21st, and whether or not you personally believe that's a sensible, rational decision or utterly bonkers - and let's not discuss that on this thread, as there are plenty of others for that - I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that a significant and increasing proportion of the population are losing all patience with this, so how do they respond?

I would disagree. Not because I am now losing patience with it, but because I can see no evidence to show that is the case in the general public. Indeed on another thread today someone posted a Yougov poll showing 71% in favour of the 4-week delay. Bear in mind Yougov tends not to ask care home residents and the over 90s for their opinion, I suspect this figure under-represents the support. AND possibly even more so if you were to exclude those who may not or won't vote at a general election.

So the whole premise of your thread is undermined by making an assumption based on anecdotal evidence with no supporting collateral.

[Gecko1978]

A middle class rebellion would (to work) to work have to be along the line of market forces. So example, say we wanted motorway speed limit to be 85, if every person in the UK said untill you up the limit we will not buy say a ford, and everyone stuck to that so destroying fords business in the UK costing jobs that would get government attention. Say you wanted NHS funding to be increased but only at the expense of foreign aid. Get everyone to suddenly boycott Tesco or close all their accounts at Lloyds by end of the month. You damage the goverment by damaging the economy it needs to survive. Refuse on mass to use public transport all drive to work. How long coulf TFL last with zero customers (seems at least a year).

This is the only way middle classes can rebel with spending power. A consolidated punishment of a big firm would hurt the government but be perfectly legal I assume.

[How u doing]

Gecko1978 said:

A middle class rebellion would (to work) to work have to be along the line of market forces. So example, say we wanted motorway speed limit to be 85, if every person in the UK said untill you up the limit we will not buy say a ford, and everyone stuck to that so destroying fords business in the UK costing jobs that would get government attention. Say you wanted NHS funding to be increased but only at the expense of foreign aid. Get everyone to suddenly boycott Tesco or close all their accounts at Lloyds by end of the month. You damage the goverment by damaging the economy it needs to survive. Refuse on mass to use public transport all drive to work. How long coulf TFL last with zero customers (seems at least a year).

This is the only way middle classes can rebel with spending power. A consolidated punishment of a big firm would hurt the government but be perfectly legal I assume.

Would anyone notice a middle class Tesco boycott?

[captain_cynic]

Oilchange said:

What about a hybrid V8?

Toyota Century.

Went from a V12 to a slightly smaller V8 Hybrid (about 0.05L smaller from memory)