UK Abortion Law
Discussion
InitialDave said:
What do you believe the benefit is of forcing someone to have a child against their will?
How else are you supposed to find staff for your laundry and fill up your big pit with tiny bodies ?Or 1001 other things the religious have done to deal with the problem ?
It's people telling others what to do and hiding behind the validation of religion.
Ban religion. Then we can move forward.
BobsPigeon said:
I've no doubt the political debate around this is US states like Texas contains a large amount or puritanical rhetoric from certain sections and I have to admit Texan politics and Texan socials attitudes are not high on the interest of a skinny lad from Lancashire, although I do remember my Mum letting me stay up late to watch Dallas every now and again and listen to the odd Joe Rogan podcast here and there.
But I suspect it's not quite as clear cut as your attempting to make it... I find myself quoting this line more and more these days "Tyrrany is the deliberate removal of nuance" - Albert Maysles
This argument is much more nuanced, I have no religious or theological affiliation what so ever and I am quite troubled by the current UK abortion law for the arguments I've laid out previously in this thread. (Fwiw I also think the new Texas situation is bat s
t)
Those of us who have the ability/privilege/time to take a dispassionate and thoughtful view of this subject shouldn't be trying to frame it in the most extremists terms of those that don't have that privilege and need to, for whatever reason, cling to the extreme positions.
Morality is a floating vessel that moves over time and in response to circumstances and environmental changes. I'm sick of good thoughtful human enquiry being shouted down by bigoted extremism.
There's fBut I suspect it's not quite as clear cut as your attempting to make it... I find myself quoting this line more and more these days "Tyrrany is the deliberate removal of nuance" - Albert Maysles
This argument is much more nuanced, I have no religious or theological affiliation what so ever and I am quite troubled by the current UK abortion law for the arguments I've laid out previously in this thread. (Fwiw I also think the new Texas situation is bat s
t)Those of us who have the ability/privilege/time to take a dispassionate and thoughtful view of this subject shouldn't be trying to frame it in the most extremists terms of those that don't have that privilege and need to, for whatever reason, cling to the extreme positions.
Morality is a floating vessel that moves over time and in response to circumstances and environmental changes. I'm sick of good thoughtful human enquiry being shouted down by bigoted extremism.
k all nuanced about the argument presented by the GoP in Texas; they control the state house and senate, therefore whatever they want goes and because the Supreme Court is loaded with ideologues there's relatively little chance of overturning it.BobsPigeon said:
Iwantafusca said:
How much is this about “the unborn child “ , and more about controlling women ?
A few posters have suggested it's about controlling women, I'm not buying it though. But as only women can have abortions I guess it's inevitable it'll be suggested, I really don't think it's part of it though in 21st century Britain.BobsPigeon said:
That's not helpful. If you're a woman and think you're reproductive rights include access to unquestioned late term abortions than that's fair enough, that's a valid opinion, but claiming anyone who disagrees is simply trying to "control" you is an appeal too far for me and I doubt you'd find many women who would agree. And as I suspect you're not a woman and are just a man parroting something you think you heard a women say once I'm a bit sceptical. Non of the women in my life would hold that opinion, there are women and men on both sides of this argument.
Who's argued for the bold? No one, ever, which renders the rest of your argument irrelevant.BobsPigeon said:
A few posters have suggested it's about controlling women, I'm not buying it though. But as only women can have abortions I guess it's inevitable it'll be suggested, I really don't think it's part of it though in 21st century Britain.
You're coming at it the wrong way. Because only women can become pregnant is the reason peternalistic societies focus on abortion. If men became pregnant, there would not be a country in the world that forbade abortions. The current time is of no consequence. This has been going on for an aeon. It's apparent in the bible, and probably predated Genesis, and that includes the band. MikeM6 said:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidial, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"
Mmmm...not sure he's going to be my cup of tea. Derek Smith said:
You're coming at it the wrong way. Because only women can become pregnant is the reason peternalistic societies focus on abortion. If men became pregnant, there would not be a country in the world that forbade abortions. The current time is of no consequence. This has been going on for an aeon. It's apparent in the bible, and probably predated Genesis, and that includes the band.
Yes, this is the whole reason that we have different expectations and rules for women and men.The only reason that we have sexism and discrimination is that it’s women who bear children.
kylos27 said:
A heartbeat=life so that should be the cutoff point. End of story.
It’s possible to remove your heart from your body and keep it beating. It’s also technically possible to remove your whole brain save for a 3cm long nubbin of Medulla Oblongata and your heart would keep beating for as long as whichever team of people were looking after you were minded to continue to do so; you’d be about as alive as a bicycle pump, but your heart would be jiving. As a matter of fact people can be and frequently are medico-legally declared dead despite maintaining a heartbeat.kylos27 said:
A heartbeat=life so that should be the cutoff point. End of story.
End of story......well thank you for that great insight....have you ever been pregnant perhaps as the result of failed contraception or even sexual assult, ever had to decide to have an invasive medical procedure to avoid life derailing consequences.An even if all of the above applies to you do you know everyone else in the same position and how they feel.
Womens body womes rights. We don't need to mess about with the laws they work.
hidetheelephants said:
There's fk all nuanced about the argument presented by the GoP in Texas; they control the state house and senate, therefore whatever they want goes and because the Supreme Court is loaded with ideologues there's relatively little chance of overturning it.
On the bright side, at least there is a constitution and a Supreme Court. So Texas in my book is batting 1000 compared to the UK k all nuanced about the argument presented by the GoP in Texas; they control the state house and senate, therefore whatever they want goes and because the Supreme Court is loaded with ideologues there's relatively little chance of overturning it.
wisbech said:
kylos27 said:
A heartbeat=life so that should be the cutoff point. End of story.
As others have pointed out, we don't use heartbeat to define when death happens... So heartbeat =/= lifeInitialDave said:
PurplePangolin said:
More a case of when life begins when considering the foetus not when death occurs - it’s not the same
Yeah, that's still nonsense, though, what is being used as a "heartbeat" to push that argument isn't a heartbeat, there isn't even a heart to beat.HM-2 said:
If presence or absence of a heartbeat can't be used as a universal indicator of whether something is living or dead, it cannot logically be used to define when life begins.
You don't even need to have that debate.The "hearbeat" being used in this argument isn't a heartbeat, so it's irrelevant whether a heartbeat is an appropriate indication of start of life.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff