First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[Dagnir]

ZedLeg said:

I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.

If it's a conclusion based on science (on either side of this argument), how is it bigotry?

[chrispmartha]

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

What if they disagree with you?

How long will they disagree if female sport becomes dominated by trans athletes?

A few golds at the olympics should test many a female athletes patience I imagine, I wouldnt be to happy if serveral decades of hard work were ruled irrelevant by the introduction of trans athletes competing against me.

I don’t know, but a man saying that women should do something isn’t exactly sticking up for women’s rights is it.

Female sports being dominated by trans athletes isn’t likely to happen any time soon.

A single gold medal won by a trans woman would be enough to ruin that competition for all of the non trans competitors, again imagine dedicating decades of your life to something, reaching the top of the sport to be denied a fair chance at winning.

You said female sports being dominated by trans women, all I’m saying is that is a very very long way off happening and id suggest it will never happen.

You may well be correct that if a transwoman wins a gold medal women in sports would be totally against it, that’s for them to decide and for the sports authorities though not a man on a car forum.

[Jinx]

chrispmartha said:

You said female sports being dominated by trans women, all I’m saying is that is a very very ling way off happening and id suggest it will never happen.

You may well be correct that if a transwoman wins a gold medal women in sports would be totally against it, that’s for them to decide and for the sports authorities though not a man on a car forum.

So how is the gender of the poster relevant?

[ZedLeg]

Dagnir said:

ZedLeg said:

I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.

If it's a conclusion based on science (on either side of this argument), how is it bigotry?

It's picking and choosing from available science to make something up that supports the bigotry. The same way that scientific principles in the past have been twisted to support racism, homophobia and misogyny.

[chrispmartha]

Jinx said:

chrispmartha said:

You said female sports being dominated by trans women, all I’m saying is that is a very very ling way off happening and id suggest it will never happen.

You may well be correct that if a transwoman wins a gold medal women in sports would be totally against it, that’s for them to decide and for the sports authorities though not a man on a car forum.

So how is the gender of the poster relevant?

Because if he claims to be sticking up for women’s rights, saying how he thinks women should think or act is kind of the opposite of sticking up for women’s rights.

[Newc]

chrispmartha said:

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

What if they disagree with you?

How long will they disagree if female sport becomes dominated by trans athletes?

A few golds at the olympics should test many a female athletes patience I imagine, I wouldnt be to happy if serveral decades of hard work were ruled irrelevant by the introduction of trans athletes competing against me.

I don’t know, but a man saying that women should do something isn’t exactly sticking up for women’s rights is it.

Female sports being dominated by trans athletes isn’t likely to happen any time soon.

A single gold medal won by a trans woman would be enough to ruin that competition for all of the non trans competitors, again imagine dedicating decades of your life to something, reaching the top of the sport to be denied a fair chance at winning.

You said female sports being dominated by trans women, all I’m saying is that is a very very long way off happening and id suggest it will never happen.

You may well be correct that if a transwoman wins a gold medal women in sports would be totally against it, that’s for them to decide and for the sports authorities though not a man on a car forum.

Only takes three indifferent male athletes per sport to declare themselves as women. Their biological advantage guarantees them gold, silver, and bronze in every event. Why would any actual women then bother with the sacrifices needed to reach the peak of international competition.

In fact, it doesn't even need that many ex-men. I bet the newly-female weightlifter could also outperform actual women in shot put, discus, hammer, and so on. Same for track - three mediocre male 200m runners can win every female track discipline.

[Jinx]

chrispmartha said:

Because if he claims to be sticking up for women’s rights, saying how he thinks women should think or act is kind of the opposite of sticking up for women’s rights.

Again how is the poster's gender relevant or can only women or have an opinion on women's rights?
And is it only for victims to stand against an injustice?

[NickCQ]

ZedLeg said:

It's picking and choosing from available science to make something up that supports the bigotry. The same way that scientific principles in the past have been twisted to support racism, homophobia and misogyny.

Genuine question - what would you say are the more respectable papers that support the opposite ("non-bigoted") point of view?

[Saweep]

The argument really needs to be sorted before men start competing in women's combat sports; Olympic boxing could become a disaster with potential for awful injuries.

I am nearly 40, well, well past my prime, and still regularly spar with top world level female Muay Thai fighters. I can confidently say there isn't one in the world I couldn't seriously hurt, within about 20 seconds of a bout starting. Suppress my testosterone for a year and nothing would change, the gulf is too large.

It's incredibly dangerous and all that will happen is that young women will stop ever starting combat careers; virtue signalling is all well and good until your health is seriously at risk.

[rover 623gsi]

Google Fallon Fox - trans MMA fighter

[alfaman]

Newc said:

Only takes three indifferent male athletes per sport to declare themselves as women. Their biological advantage guarantees them gold, silver, and bronze in every event. Why would any actual women then bother with the sacrifices needed to reach the peak of international competition.

In fact, it doesn't even need that many ex-men. I bet the newly-female weightlifter could also outperform actual women in shot put, discus, hammer, and so on. Same for track - three mediocre male 200m runners can win every female track discipline.

Already happening ...that South African runner with XY chromosomes is already winning women's track events with the XX competitors trailing way behind .

[eldar]

ZedLeg said:

Northernboy said:

eldar said:

Care to suggest a motive in this case?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/tr...

As Zed says, prolific and violent sexual offender "Karen" white is just another woman to him, and the fact that "she" has a penis and uses it to rape people doesn't mean that we should be man by saying that she's actually a man.

This case is obviously awful but that person is clearly an outlier, a tiny minority in a tiny minority.

Is this case worse than instances of cisgendered people assaulting other prisoners?

Every time i think i'm getting closer to understanding the intricacies of gender politics something happens to show me that I don't understand.

Somewhat reassuringly, the something that happens demonstrates that there is no understanding to be had, only deeply ingrained, divided opinions based on emotion.

Follow the money seems as good a guide here as it usually is.

[rover 623gsi]

ZedLeg said:

Dagnir said:

ZedLeg said:

I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.

If it's a conclusion based on science (on either side of this argument), how is it bigotry?

It's picking and choosing from available science to make something up that supports the bigotry. The same way that scientific principles in the past have been twisted to support racism, homophobia and misogyny.

It’s not ‘picking’ on available science to support bigotry - it’s highlighting every piece of data since the beginning of time that shows males consistently outperform females in pretty much every single physical task.

It’s not even close. Males have more strength, speed and stamina than females and some people seem to think this is an outlandish statement! It’s mental!

Edited by rover 623gsi on Monday 21st June 15:29

[Bacon Is Proof]

I don't doubt, due to my own experience, that there is a tiny minority of people that are born in the wrong body.
That's some tough luck, they have my sympathy.

We can't however change our biological sex, and fudging around this fact by confusing it with rewritten definitions of gender will do, and is doing, more harm than good.

The end.

[Jules Sunley]

Simple solution on Olympic application paperwork - 'Were you born with dangly bits' - Yes equals male competitor, No equals female competitor. Don't care what you have or haven't got now or what you 'identify as'.

[alfaman]

Arguably there could be 2 competition categories in sport

1/ XX

2/ anyone else

Ppl who have been through male puberty competing in women's sport makes a complete mockery of all the training that XX / genetic women have undergone to advance their career in sport.

Sharron Davies and Paula Radcliffe are both refreshingly outspoken on this

It would be good / interesting to see if elite female athletes would sue the IOC or other sports bodies for financial and other damages .... For failure to uphold and adhere to equal rights and other legislation related to sexual discrimination amongst other criteria .

[alfaman]

rover 623gsi said:

It’s not ‘picking’ on available science to support bigotry - it’s highlighting every piece of data since the beginning of time that shows males consistently outperform females in pretty every single physical task.

It’s not even close. Males have more strength, speed and stamina than females and some people seem to think this is an outlandish statement! It’s mental!

Totally... several top 'female' trans athletes who can smash all the competition and win a women's gold...were nowhere in men's sport when they were men.

complete mockery of women's sport

[anonymous-user]

It’s a shame for the actual women from New Zealand who have been deprived of the chance of competing in the Olympic Games , but hopefully this male will bring sunlight to the issue of women’s rights being shat all over by narcissistic men.

[chrispmartha]

Jinx said:

chrispmartha said:

Because if he claims to be sticking up for women’s rights, saying how he thinks women should think or act is kind of the opposite of sticking up for women’s rights.

Again how is the poster's gender relevant or can only women or have an opinion on women's rights?
And is it only for victims to stand against an injustice?

Read what I wrote.

He can think and have an opinion on whatever he likes.

[RobbieTheTruth]

Newc said:

chrispmartha said:

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

Rick1.8t said:

chrispmartha said:

What if they disagree with you?

How long will they disagree if female sport becomes dominated by trans athletes?

A few golds at the olympics should test many a female athletes patience I imagine, I wouldnt be to happy if serveral decades of hard work were ruled irrelevant by the introduction of trans athletes competing against me.

I don’t know, but a man saying that women should do something isn’t exactly sticking up for women’s rights is it.

Female sports being dominated by trans athletes isn’t likely to happen any time soon.

A single gold medal won by a trans woman would be enough to ruin that competition for all of the non trans competitors, again imagine dedicating decades of your life to something, reaching the top of the sport to be denied a fair chance at winning.

You said female sports being dominated by trans women, all I’m saying is that is a very very long way off happening and id suggest it will never happen.

You may well be correct that if a transwoman wins a gold medal women in sports would be totally against it, that’s for them to decide and for the sports authorities though not a man on a car forum.

Only takes three indifferent male athletes per sport to declare themselves as women. Their biological advantage guarantees them gold, silver, and bronze in every event. Why would any actual women then bother with the sacrifices needed to reach the peak of international competition.

In fact, it doesn't even need that many ex-men. I bet the newly-female weightlifter could also outperform actual women in shot put, discus, hammer, and so on. Same for track - three mediocre male 200m runners can win every female track discipline.

Exactly that. If a handful of current/ex national level runners could be found, they could take every single female medal in 100m/200/400m/800m/relays etc.