First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[768]

Iwantafusca said:

Link to these stats ?

How old was he at the time ? How old were the competitors?

Hubbard was about 40.

The one or two women in the world able to get in that ballpark were late 20s.

[RobbieTheTruth]

Randy Winkman said:

I sort of agree with ZedLeg about people making up things to get angry about. And I dont think that womens sport is about to be destroyed.

But even the issue that prompted the opening post does show a problem because each individual case is a big issue for those directly involved. I personally dont think the weight lifter should be allowed to compete against women in the same way I (reluctantly) didn't think Caster Semenya should have competed in women's races. (Even though I accept that she is a woman.)

I get that, but 30 years ago, you'd never believe an average male weightlifter could change sex in his late thirties and possibly pick up a gold medal in the womens category at the Olympics in his forties.

These scenarios are coming.

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

People can't put up a valid argument other than saying 'it doesn't happen so it's not a problem'.

Answer the question - if you think trans women should compete in women's sport, are you happy for this to apply to heavyweight boxing, if the person in question has boxed as a male?

Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 22 June 10:45

[RobGT81]

🤔

[Randy Winkman]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Randy Winkman said:

I sort of agree with ZedLeg about people making up things to get angry about. And I dont think that womens sport is about to be destroyed.

But even the issue that prompted the opening post does show a problem because each individual case is a big issue for those directly involved. I personally dont think the weight lifter should be allowed to compete against women in the same way I (reluctantly) didn't think Caster Semenya should have competed in women's races. (Even though I accept that she is a woman.)

I get that, but 30 years ago, you'd never believe an average male weightlifter could change sex in his ate thirties and possibly pick up a gold medal in the womens category at the Olympics in his forties.

These scenarios are coming.

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

People can't put up a valid argument other than saying 'it doesn't happen so it's not a problem'.

Answer the question - if you think trans women should compete in women's sport, are you happy for this to apply to heavyweight boxing, if the person in question has boxed as a male?

I don't think that trans-women (a woman assigned male at birth) should be allowed to compete in women's sports.

[RobbieTheTruth]

Randy Winkman said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Randy Winkman said:

I sort of agree with ZedLeg about people making up things to get angry about. And I dont think that womens sport is about to be destroyed.

But even the issue that prompted the opening post does show a problem because each individual case is a big issue for those directly involved. I personally dont think the weight lifter should be allowed to compete against women in the same way I (reluctantly) didn't think Caster Semenya should have competed in women's races. (Even though I accept that she is a woman.)

I get that, but 30 years ago, you'd never believe an average male weightlifter could change sex in his ate thirties and possibly pick up a gold medal in the womens category at the Olympics in his forties.

These scenarios are coming.

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

People can't put up a valid argument other than saying 'it doesn't happen so it's not a problem'.

Answer the question - if you think trans women should compete in women's sport, are you happy for this to apply to heavyweight boxing, if the person in question has boxed as a male?

I don't think that trans-women (a woman assigned male at birth) should be allowed to compete in women's sports.

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

[RobbieTheTruth]

RobGT81 said:

??

What's this showing then? That there was a 1 in 2.8 billion chance of Hubbard's lift being matched by a woman in 2010?

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Randy Winkman said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Randy Winkman said:

I sort of agree with ZedLeg about people making up things to get angry about. And I dont think that womens sport is about to be destroyed.

But even the issue that prompted the opening post does show a problem because each individual case is a big issue for those directly involved. I personally dont think the weight lifter should be allowed to compete against women in the same way I (reluctantly) didn't think Caster Semenya should have competed in women's races. (Even though I accept that she is a woman.)

I get that, but 30 years ago, you'd never believe an average male weightlifter could change sex in his ate thirties and possibly pick up a gold medal in the womens category at the Olympics in his forties.

These scenarios are coming.

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

People can't put up a valid argument other than saying 'it doesn't happen so it's not a problem'.

Answer the question - if you think trans women should compete in women's sport, are you happy for this to apply to heavyweight boxing, if the person in question has boxed as a male?

I don't think that trans-women (a woman assigned male at birth) should be allowed to compete in women's sports.

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

Maybe go back and actually read what I wrote about the situation (Transwomen in sports) I have said that I don't have a strong opinion either way as I haven't got sufficient knowledge in this area and it should be left to the authorities of that sport to decide.

My issue is that these issues are just another stick to beat trans people with, every thread on the subject its the same arguments and in some cases transphobic comments.

[ZedLeg]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

[rover 623gsi]

Ross Tucker is really good on this issue

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9b297206-d2bc-1...

[RobbieTheTruth]

ZedLeg said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

Yeah, that's the general stance from someone who supports the inclusion of trans women competing against women.

When asked a legitimate, specific question, they refuse to answer because deep down they know it's grossly unfair (and would also be incredibly dangerous to women in combat sport).

[RobbieTheTruth]

8.4L 154 said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

That's an argument against the ethics of MMA as a sport not trans inclusion in MMA. It's a very common injury and one inflicted on many Cisgender MMA fighters by their cisgender opponents, the fact a trans MMA fighter did it and the way its used against trans rights is just a transphobic dog whistle and stochastic terrorism

Do you think trans women should be able to fight women in Boxing/MMA?

[768]

8.4L 154 said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

That's an argument against the ethics of MMA as a sport not trans inclusion in MMA. It's a very common injury and one inflicted on many Cisgender MMA fighters by their cisgender opponents, the fact a trans MMA fighter did it and the way its used against trans rights is just a transphobic dog whistle and stochastic terrorism

Not if the odds of that happening are increased by trans inclusion it's not.

[rodericb]

ZedLeg said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

This is sheer late-stage progressivism. Forcing through ill-conceived changes so that a vocal few bound up in groupthink can wield power and fk the cost of it to anyone else affected by it and damn those who question it.

[Gecko1978]

8.4L 154 said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

A trans MMA fighter has fractured a females skull.

That's an argument against the ethics of MMA as a sport not trans inclusion in MMA. It's a very common injury and one inflicted on many Cisgender MMA fighters by their cisgender opponents, the fact a trans MMA fighter did it and the way its used against trans rights is just a transphobic dog whistle and stochastic terrorism

Actually true the eye socket injury is common in MMA, whats not common is a female competitor to be able to kick and strike with the force fallon fox was able too. That ability was directly correlated to Fallons genetic make up being male. Eventually she was beaten by a cis gender women and that fight was equally unpleasant with the opponent stating she felt fallon should fight in a seperate class.

[anonymous-user]

8.4L 154 said:

That's an argument against the ethics of MMA as a sport not trans inclusion in MMA. It's a very common injury and one inflicted on many Cisgender MMA fighters by their cisgender opponents, the fact a trans MMA fighter did it and the way its used against trans rights is just a transphobic dog whistle and stochastic terrorism

Cisgender ✅
Transphobic ✅
Dog whistle ✅

Stochastic terrorism. ✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅

[anonymous-user]

ZedLeg said:

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

This is entirely a binary issue. Women’s sport is separate from men’s due to sex.

Men like this individual should not be competing against women.

[Wiltshire Lad]

Iwantafusca said:

ZedLeg said:

Is it 100% accepted that there is an advantage? I’d like to see that evidence.

Seriously???? I was a pretty good club and county athlete in my late teens - but not at the level to go further. And yet my personal best times for both 400m and 800m would have made me the world record holder as a female....and both record holders, Koch and Kratochvilova are widely held to have been drugs cheats....and you don't think men have an advantage........

[RobbieTheTruth]

Iwantafusca said:

ZedLeg said:

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

This is entirely a binary issue. Women’s sport is separate from men’s due to sex.

Men like this individual should not be competing against women.

Has anyone ever met anyone who thinks people born male should be competing against women in combat sport?

I've only ever seen vague arguments such as combat sport is dangerous anyway, males injure other males anyway, or find some obscure example where a trained female was able to defeat a male somewhere.


I've never seen anyone say 'yes, trans-women and women are completely equal and therefore it's fair and reasonable to force women to fight trans-women if they want to compete in combat sport'.

[Newc]

ZedLeg said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Sorry, I didn't think you did.

It's more a question for ZedLeg and chrispmartha, who I suspect won't answer directly but will suggest it's within their rights etc.

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

It's pretty much the definition of a binary issue.

[Gecko1978]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Iwantafusca said:

ZedLeg said:

I'm not answering because it's an attempt at a gotcha based on theoretical scaremongering. As much as people want it to be, this isn't a binary issue and we're just at the start of trying to figure out the best way forward. Chances are the rules as they are will evolve and change over time as we see what works and what doesn't.

This is entirely a binary issue. Women’s sport is separate from men’s due to sex.

Men like this individual should not be competing against women.

Has anyone ever met anyone who thinks people born male should be competing against women in combat sport?

I've only ever seen vague arguments such as combat sport is dangerous anyway, males injure other males anyway, or find some obscure example where a trained female was able to defeat a male somewhere.


I've never seen anyone say 'yes, trans-women and women are completely equal and therefore it's fair and reasonable to force women to fight trans-women if they want to compete in combat sport'.

Its not just niche combat sports but many where size an strength is an issue. Again trans people should be respected, day to day they should be accorded the rights associated with there gender, but when it comes to sport there must be a boundary so we treat all people fairly