First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[Newc]

ZedLeg said:

Northernboy said:

8.4L 154 said:

I can however think of several cisgender athletes...

You know that “cisgender” is perceived as an offensive term, as it relegates people to a subset of their sex. It’s a deliberate insult used by trannies and their hangers on, and shouldn’t be used in conversation.

“Don’t use a slur” instantly uses a slur. Great stuff.

Cisgender is claimed to be a slur by the same people who claim terf is a slur. They’re wrong on both counts, they’re accurately descriptive words.

No they're not, they are Orwellian newspeak.

There is no such thing as cisgender. It is a political word used to imply the holding of forbidden opinions.

There are men, women, trans-men, and trans-women.

That's it.

[wst]

ZedLeg said:

Cisgender is claimed to be a slur by the same people who claim terf is a slur. They’re wrong on both counts, they’re accurately descriptive words.

"Accurately descriptive" only to people who believe in the concept of gender identity. For those who do not, it is an imposition of a worldview upon the unwilling, which is - ah - disrespectful at the least.

[Gecko1978]

ZedLeg said:

Northernboy said:

8.4L 154 said:

I can however think of several cisgender athletes...

You know that “cisgender” is perceived as an offensive term, as it relegates people to a subset of their sex. It’s a deliberate insult used by trannies and their hangers on, and shouldn’t be used in conversation.

“Don’t use a slur” instantly uses a slur. Great stuff.

Cisgender is claimed to be a slur by the same people who claim terf is a slur. They’re wrong on both counts, they’re accurately descriptive words.

I have used Cis in a number of posts but as a male from birth to have a minority group appropriate gender classification to sub divide from birth and transition genders does seem a little offensive. I was born male, I am male I don't need a new title, when the alternative is Trans male etc.

However as its just a word I have come to not care so much, simply call yourself what you like, tell me to call you whatever you like etc. It won't change my view but I am happy to openly respect others views.

[anonymous-user]

8.4L 154 said:

Gecko1978 said:

ZedLeg said:

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? Is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

I didn’t say they had to change the way they talk. I’m under no obligation to talk to them either though.

Deliberately misgendering someone is offensive childish and petty. Laurel Hubbard far as I am aware goes by she her and I am happy to use thoes terms. My sole objection is her clear advantage to her cis competitors creating a gap that can never be overcome.

If there was a gap to her competitors they couldn't overcome then she would hold the world record, which she doesn't. She would win every event she enters, which she doesn't.

I can however think of several cisgender athletes who have genetic advantages and who did win every event they entered, held world records and won multiple and record numbers of olympic golds. yet that is accepted as within fair sport. Sport is never a level playing field utopia, and if it was it would be very boring.

43 yr old male doesn’t win every competition against young women ?

Whether Laurel wins every time or not is irrelevant. The fact is he deprives a woman of a medal , a chance to represent their country , to compete etc etc. All to satisfy a mediocre middle aged males narcissism.

[ZedLeg]

Use or don’t use cis, it’s fine. The people who use it know what it refers to.

I’m just dubious of people who ask people not to use a word as it’s a slur then instantly use a different slur.

For people who claim not to be or know what terfs are, some of the posters use a lot of the same language and talking points.

[chrispmartha]

ZedLeg said:

Use or don’t use cis, it’s fine. The people who use it know what it refers to.

I’m just dubious of people who ask people not to use a word as it’s a slur then instantly use a different slur.

For people who claim not to be or know what terfs are, some of the posters use a lot of the same language and talking points.

Im surprised we haven’t had ‘attack helicopter’ yet.

[BobsPigeon]

I bet the old East German athletic coaches of the 70s and 80s are kicking themselves, they spent all those years forcing steroids into girls until they grew beards and all the time they never thought to just put a man in a dress.

[anonymous-user]

chrispmartha said:

wst said:

Reassignment or not is a red herring anyway, as shown by a 40something male athlete of no real prominence in male competitions somehow becoming a representative of his nation in a female Olympic sport, competing against weightlifting women in their athletic prime and mid-20's.

When was the last time a woman in her 40's was competitive in weightlifting against world class 20's women weightlifters, and what makes Laurel the exception? Regardless of reassignment, things do not add up.

That may be so, I’m just asking him to back up his claims.

I will find the citation if I can (it was an interview with him )

As mentioned by others even if he has had genital surgery the fact he still smashes young women and their achievements is telling.


Interesting you state TERF and Cis aren’t slurs even though plenty of people labelled so by trans activists state otherwise. Yet you swoon at claims of “misgendering “ ?

[Vanden Crash]

Tonight I upset someone for saying it’s impossible to have 150 genders

They made a good comeback, what impact does it have on my life. Answer - zero, still doesn’t make it any less of a bit of a mental mindfk if someone wants to call the self whatever.

It’s difficult to remove gender from sex but it doesn’t take a genius to realise the real losers yet again are going to be women

[chrispmartha]

Iwantafusca said:

I will find the citation if I can (it was an interview with him )

As mentioned by others even if he has had genital surgery the fact he still smashes young women and their achievements is telling.


Interesting you state TERF and Cis aren’t slurs even though plenty of people labelled so by trans activists state otherwise. Yet you swoon at claims of “misgendering “ ?

I haven’t said anything about CIS or TERF or used them, fwiw I don’t like the Terf, CIS doesn’t bother me though.

Also You don’t need to have had genital surgery to have gone through gender reassignment

[Northernboy]

Newc said:

No they're not, they are Orwellian newspeak.

There is no such thing as cisgender. It is a political word used to imply the holding of forbidden opinions.

There are men, women, trans-men, and trans-women.

That's it.

Women (mainly and rightly) very often dislike the term.

It comes from appalling Latin, too. Trans as in transsexual means change, as in transform, not “the other side” as in transalpine.

It has no antonym, the opposite of transform is “not transform”.

Those using it on here know how much it upsets many women, they are using it deliberately, despite this.

It’s strange, given how shrill they are if normal people don’t use their preferred terms.

[ZedLeg]

Look this is all getting a bit circular but I’m not going to take advice on offensive language from anyone who thinks trannie is a remotely acceptable thing to say.

[chrispmartha]

Northernboy said:

Newc said:

No they're not, they are Orwellian newspeak.

There is no such thing as cisgender. It is a political word used to imply the holding of forbidden opinions.

There are men, women, trans-men, and trans-women.

That's it.

Women (mainly and rightly) very often dislike the term.

It comes from appalling Latin, too. Trans as in transsexual means change, as in transform, not “the other side” as in transalpine.

It has no antonym, the opposite of transform is “not transform”.

Those using it on here know how much it upsets many women, they are using it deliberately, despite this.

It’s strange, given how shrill they are if normal people don’t use their preferred terms.

But yet you’re fine with ‘trannie’

You seem to think you speak for women a lot aswell

[otolith]

I don’t find “cis” offensive. “Terf” has become a term of abuse, but given the derivation, if you are one I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just own it.

[Northernboy]

chrispmartha said:

I haven’t said anything about CIS or TERF or used them, fwiw I don’t like the Terf, CIS doesn’t bother me though.

Also You don’t need to have had genital surgery to have gone through gender reassignment

You keep using the term, you know it’s offensive to many women, but choose to continue.

Why?

[anonymous-user]

chrispmartha said:

Also You don’t need to have had genital surgery to have gone through gender reassignment

What difference does it make to his results ?

[chrispmartha]

Northernboy said:

chrispmartha said:

I haven’t said anything about CIS or TERF or used them, fwiw I don’t like the Terf, CIS doesn’t bother me though.

Also You don’t need to have had genital surgery to have gone through gender reassignment

You keep using the term, you know it’s offensive to many women, but choose to continue.

Why?

Keep using what term?

And again speaking for women i see.

Edited by chrispmartha on Tuesday 22 June 21:05

[chrispmartha]

Iwantafusca said:

chrispmartha said:

Also You don’t need to have had genital surgery to have gone through gender reassignment

What difference does it make to his results ?

None, it was you that brought it up.

[RobbieTheTruth]

Northernboy said:

wst said:

t does make the sincerity of your participation in a conversation questionable if you threaten to flounce unless your specific interpretation of reality is laid out to be the only interpretation valid for use in the conversation. Would you accept those terms from somebody else, or are you just going to only talk with people who will happily concede a point right from the beginning without you having made any actual persuasive point to convince them of your point of view?

It’s the only way people like him aren’t left floundering from the start, and end up tearing their own viewpoint apart. Insisting that the conversation is only allowed if you concede their points from the off is ludicrous.

It’s the same reason he refuses to say what his definition of a woman is. If he did he’d be left without a leg to stand on. The standards response when cornered is to just go for the circular / meaningless one that a woman is anyone that says they are a woman.

It's also the same reason they have refused to answer if they'd be comfortable letting a recently transitioned heavyweight boxer fight against born females.

Deep down, they know that would be lunacy and really dangerous.

If a debate like this happens in person and you clearly lose, you have sit and and think about it.

On here, they can just threaten to flounce or block, delete and go straight to someone who agrees with them for reassurance.

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

Look this is all getting a bit circular but I’m not going to take advice on offensive language from anyone who thinks trannie is a remotely acceptable thing to say.

So you do get the point then? You were upset when I used a term that you found offensive, even though some just find it descriptive, but won’t moderate your language when it upsets others.

There’s hope for you yet.

Here’s a female-led discussion on the subject,

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3561017...

Have you worked out what you mean by female yet, or woman, by the way?