First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[RobbieTheTruth]

ZedLeg said:

MC Bodge said:

ZedLeg said:

I keep saying I'm not going to come back to this thread, it's basically self harm at this point. I should really listen to myself

It is a non-argument.

The answer is obvious, even to you, if you are honest about it.

Fortunately, unlike some in this thread I'm ok with walking away when it's clear there's no chance of reasonable discussion.

You can't answer the questions, so you'll flounce.

You know it's not fair, but you're overall stance is pro-trans so you can't reasonably argue.

[RobbieTheTruth]

chrispmartha said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

chrispmartha said:

ZedLeg said:

I don't really see what's so hard to accept with the opinion that in an ideal world I'd like to see transwomen not be segregated in sport but if governing bodies decides it wouldn't be fair then I'd accept it. It's not hiding, it's accepting that some may know more about the subject than me.

Exactly. It seems in society and definitely on these forums you have to bee 100% for or 100% against something, since when has I'll let the people with the expertise decide being an unacceptable opinion to hold?

I agree.

It's been pointed out beyond any reasonable doubt that it's not fair on the basis of genetic makeup, so you'll hide behind 'I'll let the authorities decide' .

Like I've said. Various sporting bodies disagree and change their mind. Do you literally just support whoever authorities whatever rule at that specific time?


Do you support trans in weightlifting.

Do you support the ban of trans in rugby?

Do you supprt some states allowing and some permitting in MMA?

Its literally pointless, you simply will not be happy unless I say what you want me to say.

I don't want you to say anything.

You're scared of answering the following:

Do you support trans in weightlifting.

Do you support the ban of trans in rugby?

Do you supprt some states allowing and some permitting in MMA?

[ZedLeg]

No flounce just a sensible decision to leave an unproductive discussion.

[Gecko1978]

InitialDave said:

Iwantafusca said:

Does society believe intact males who id as women are actually women ?

The bits of it I wish to interact with largely seem to, yes.

Iwantafusca said:

Do you think believing transwomen are transwomen is transphobic?

I think it's a deliberately specific bit of language use that is not itself transphobic, but likely to accompany such attitudes.


The other stuff, I don't know, as I said, I don't know what the answer is.

But likely to accompany such attitudes....so actually you are not certain. Let me be clear. Trans men and women should be respected, be afforded the rights and courtesies of there gender identity (the NHS use this term not gender). No one should form a negative view of a trans person based on them being trans....I mean why would you its a crazy as not liking the colour of a person's skin its just illogical.

But trans men and women are different and in some circumstances that will necessitate a seperate catgory. Example a trans women goes to a ER and complains of abdominal pains, should the dr check she is pregnant, ask her about her cycle or with respect knowing she is different move on to more likely causes, causes that are in fact possible and not prohibited by her physiology.

Sport again if we are to treat every one fairly then some people can not compete.

All other things (prisons maybe not) trans people can be grouped as per the gender identity

[MC Bodge]

ZedLeg said:

No flounce just a sensible decision to leave an unproductive discussion.

As others have said, you position yourself as "pro-trans-gender" and cannot allow yourself to compromise.

A trans-woman on radio 4 last night said that she did not agree with trans-women competing against women in sports with a women's category, for biological sex reasons. I doubt that she considers herself to be trans-phobic.

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

chrispmartha said:

amusingduck said:

chrispmartha said:

Exactly. It seems in society and definitely on these forums you have to bee 100% for or 100% against something, since when has I'll let the people with the expertise decide being an unacceptable opinion to hold?

It's not that it's an unacceptable opinion to hold, it's that making 75 posts to express your opinion of "I'm happy for the experts to decide" - which only takes one post - leads others to believe that you're not being entirely honest about your motivations.

Half of those posts are defending myself from people who keep saying what they think I think on it, not reading what I actually think, look at the posts today, every time I say that's my opinion I get a reply saying that I don't, you've just done exactly that.

Oh and you can think I am being dishonest if you want, but I'm not, that is exactly what my opinion is on it.

I'll let other people decide for me is such a dangerous take.

If Sharon Davies becomes head of the UK Olympics program, it's a blanket immediate ban on all trans-athletes in sport. Would you back that?

Back it?

I'd just accept that that's what they've decided, I wouldn't think it's transphobic, Id like to think they've looked at and come to that decision based on what they feel is best.

Im not sure how many times I can state my position on it, Im am undecided I do not have a definitive opinion on it, I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge.

You might not like 'I'm not quite sure' or a blunt 'I don't know' answer, but that is my opinion

I'm really don't know what you want me to say to you.

[InitialDave]

Gecko1978 said:

But likely to accompany such attitudes....

Sometimes you tailor your answer to the person asking the question.

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

I don't want you to say anything.

You're scared of answering the following:

Do you support trans in weightlifting.

Do you support the ban of trans in rugby?

Do you supprt some states allowing and some permitting in MMA?

Scared?

I don't 'support' any of it, I am unsure, so I'm OK with what the individual sports agree on.

[RobbieTheTruth]

chrispmartha said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

chrispmartha said:

amusingduck said:

chrispmartha said:

Exactly. It seems in society and definitely on these forums you have to bee 100% for or 100% against something, since when has I'll let the people with the expertise decide being an unacceptable opinion to hold?

It's not that it's an unacceptable opinion to hold, it's that making 75 posts to express your opinion of "I'm happy for the experts to decide" - which only takes one post - leads others to believe that you're not being entirely honest about your motivations.

Half of those posts are defending myself from people who keep saying what they think I think on it, not reading what I actually think, look at the posts today, every time I say that's my opinion I get a reply saying that I don't, you've just done exactly that.

Oh and you can think I am being dishonest if you want, but I'm not, that is exactly what my opinion is on it.

I'll let other people decide for me is such a dangerous take.

If Sharon Davies becomes head of the UK Olympics program, it's a blanket immediate ban on all trans-athletes in sport. Would you back that?

Back it?

I'd just accept that that's what they've decided, I wouldn't think it's transphobic, Id like to think they've looked at and come to that decision based on what they feel is best.

Im not sure how many times I can state my position on it, Im am undecided I do not have a definitive opinion on it, I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge.

You might not like 'I'm not quite sure' or a blunt 'I don't know' answer, but that is my opinion

I'm really don't know what you want me to say to you.

Fair enough. It's just a discussion forum, and opinion on here seems to be as follows:

90% - ex-males shouldn't compete against female.
10 % - maybe they should but I don't know

The 10% can't really come up with a logical reason why it's fair so just say they'll support what experts decide, which is fair enough but different sports have different experts. Also experts disagree or let political bias infiltrate the decision.

I guess at the end of the day, there will be a 'victim'. Either that victim will be:

Trans people - who are told they can't compete in female sports as they weren't born females
Females - who are told they must agree to concede any biological advantage to people born male if they decide to transition and compete against them

[blackrabbit]

28 pages on whether a bloke can compete in Women's Olympics because he cut an appendage off! Amazing anyone can take this seriously, if it happens its just undermines the Olympics which seems to be the goal of the lunatic left.

[ZedLeg]

MC Bodge said:

ZedLeg said:

No flounce just a sensible decision to leave an unproductive discussion.

As others have said, you position yourself as "pro-trans-gender" and cannot allow yourself to compromise.

A trans-woman on radio 4 last night said that she did not agree with trans-women competing against women in sports with a women's category, for biological sex reasons. I doubt that she considers herself to be trans-phobic.

I've never said that anyone who disagrees with me about transwomen in sport is transphobic. The only times I've suggested such here is when someone has said something blatantly transphobic.

To my eyes saying that I'd accept the ruling on sport governing bodies regarding these decisions is a compromise. Expecting me to completely reverse my opinion based on your opinion isn't a compromise.

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

chrispmartha said:

amusingduck said:

chrispmartha said:

Exactly. It seems in society and definitely on these forums you have to bee 100% for or 100% against something, since when has I'll let the people with the expertise decide being an unacceptable opinion to hold?

It's not that it's an unacceptable opinion to hold, it's that making 75 posts to express your opinion of "I'm happy for the experts to decide" - which only takes one post - leads others to believe that you're not being entirely honest about your motivations.

Half of those posts are defending myself from people who keep saying what they think I think on it, not reading what I actually think, look at the posts today, every time I say that's my opinion I get a reply saying that I don't, you've just done exactly that.

Oh and you can think I am being dishonest if you want, but I'm not, that is exactly what my opinion is on it.

I'll let other people decide for me is such a dangerous take.

If Sharon Davies becomes head of the UK Olympics program, it's a blanket immediate ban on all trans-athletes in sport. Would you back that?

You let other people decide all sorts for you in your life, you are not an expert in everything (although you probably think you are)

Why would I have to 'back' anything, what do you mean by 'back' it,

I would accept it.

It really is now becoming a pointless discussion.

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

but different sports have different experts.

Just on this, well of course they do, and different sports require different sets of requirements from the athletes in them.

Which is why it's complicated and a blanket answer might not be possible.

[austinsmirk]

blackrabbit said:

28 pages on whether a bloke can compete in Women's Olympics because he cut an appendage off! Amazing anyone can take this seriously, if it happens its just undermines the Olympics which seems to be the goal of the lunatic left.

I was wondering if he still had his twig and berries or if was messing about with medication and in between processes. If you’re going to decide you want to be a woman, surely you’d want to have a go at being a sexy one. Not looking like a welder in a dress.

I guess it’s a really complex world that virtually no one cares in the slightest about. Why 99.9% of the world have got to put up with shared wc’s because someone feels a bit fragile I don’t know. Ask a lady if she wants to use a wc after a man. The answer is always going to be no.

[Jinx]

chrispmartha said:

Just on this, well of course they do, and different sports require different sets of requirements from the athletes in them.

Which is why it's complicated and a blanket answer might not be possible.

Agreed - it is only in sports where being born a man would instil a distinct advantage that I think most of us are having "wait-a-minute have you thought this through" moment. Sports like the beam in gymnastics or others where pure physicality isn't the over-riding required attribute would probably not garner such a negative response.

[768]

A blanket answer is definitely possible.

[RobbieTheTruth]

chrispmartha said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

but different sports have different experts.

Just on this, well of course they do, and different sports require different sets of requirements from the athletes in them.

Which is why it's complicated and a blanket answer might not be possible.

It's not complicated at all.

Men have a natural advantage in anything involving strength, speed, endurance, stamina, perception of distance etc.

Rugby have got it right.

Weightlifting have conformed to wokeism.

Is that just lucky for female rugby players and unlucky for female weightlifters.

[Gecko1978]

Just had a look at Hubbards wiki, it says she rarely gives interviews because of the negative press she receives (understandable she would take that stance), it also notes many fellow competitors criticise her and that I think is the issue. We (ph loud mouths) seem to think its unfair even the pro trans posters are saying they don't have all the answers. So does seem to an extent there is consensus. I still want to see her smash a world record but only to highlight how absurd this is

[RobbieTheTruth]

Gecko1978 said:

Just had a look at Hubbards wiki, it says she rarely gives interviews because of the negative press she receives (understandable she would take that stance), it also notes many fellow competitors criticise her and that I think is the issue. We (ph loud mouths) seem to think its unfair even the pro trans posters are saying they don't have all the answers. So does seem to an extent there is consensus. I still want to see her smash a world record but only to highlight how absurd this is

It's going to take something like that but it will slowly sink in how absurd it is. Like I said, if a competent male short/middle distance runner transitioned, they could theoretically win gold in 100m, 200m, 400m relay races, hurdles and maybe long jump and 800m.

Hubbard is old, and therefore ranked about 4th in the world. I predict they will compete, and not win gold, leading to people who supoorted her inclusion saying 'see - it's fair because she didn't win' - conveniently leaving out the fact that they are 20 years too old and coming off a serious injury.

.And of course they take the 'no interview' stance. We see it here. They want trans people to compete but can't put forward a serious argument in the name of fairness.

[chrispmartha]

RobbieTheTruth said:

chrispmartha said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

but different sports have different experts.

Just on this, well of course they do, and different sports require different sets of requirements from the athletes in them.

Which is why it's complicated and a blanket answer might not be possible.

It's not complicated at all.

Men have a natural advantage in anything involving strength, speed, endurance, stamina, perception of distance etc.

Rugby have got it right.

Weightlifting have conformed to wokeism.

Is that just lucky for female rugby players and unlucky for female weightlifters.

It is complicated, there's quite a few factors to consider across all sports, if it wasn't complicate there wouldn't be a discussion, you don't think its complicate because you think everyone should just think like you do.


Wokeism? what do you mean by wkeism, its the latest buzzword that's getting thrown around as a pejorative, what is it that you mean?