First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[NickCQ]

ZedLeg said:

terf

I don't see any radical feminists posting on this thread.

[mick987]

austinsmirk said:

At least he/she /they/it/ them or whatever will come with their own bat and two balls unlike the ladies.

But yr right. Funnily though wasn’t there a male tennis player in the 70’s who bet he was better than martina Navratilova

Game was set up and she destroyed him.

Battle of the sexes. Billy Jean King and Bobby Riggs.

[Northernboy]

austinsmirk said:

At least he/she /they/it/ them or whatever will come with their own bat and two balls unlike the ladies.

But yr right. Funnily though wasn’t there a male tennis player in the 70’s who bet he was better than martina Navratilova

Game was set up and she destroyed him.

That's quite some reimagining of history there.

Here's what actually happened;

"A pay-per-view telecast,[37][40] the match was played on Friday night, September 25, under hybrid rules to make it more competitive; Connors was allowed only one serve per point, and Navratilova was allowed to hit into half of the doubles alleys.[37][40] Each player received a $650,000 guarantee, with a further $500,000 for the winner.[40][41] Connors won 7–5, 6–2,[42] as Navratilova made eight double faults and 36 unforced errors. Connors, too, was nervous and there was a rumor that he had placed a bet on himself to win at 4:1.[43] According to Connors' book The Outsider, he placed a million-dollar bet that he would lose no more than eight games.[44]"

Edited to add, this followed an earlier game;

"Riggs had been one of the world's top tennis players in the 1940s; he was ranked year-end World No. 1 three times and had won six major titles during his career. After he retired from professional tennis in 1951, Riggs remained a master promoter of himself and of tennis. In 1973, he opined that the female game was inferior and that even at his current age of 55 he could still beat any of the top female players.

Riggs first challenged Billie Jean King, but when she declined, Margaret Court stepped in. At the time, Court was 30 years old and in the midst of earning her seventh year-end ranking as World No. 1 female player in the world. On the day of their match on May 13, 5,000 fans came to the Mother's Day match in Ramona, California. Televised by CBS Sports, Riggs descended the stadium steps and presented Court with Mother's Day flowers, which she accepted while curtsying. Riggs used his drop shots and lobs to keep Court off balance. His quick victory (6–2, 6–1) landed Riggs on the cover of both Sports Illustrated and Time."

Edited by Northernboy on Monday 21st June 12:30

[ZedLeg]

NickCQ said:

ZedLeg said:

terf

I don't see any radical feminists posting on this thread.

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

All you are doing here is using a slur against people who don't agree with you, and you are doing it to avoid engaging in an actual discussion, as you know that the facts simply aren't on your side.

You are asserting that men are really women, and when challenged, aren't backing it up.

You know that you can't come up with a definition of "woman" that fits with your ideology and isn't circular, so you are avoiding the question. You also know that there is a perfectly good scientific description that you simply dislike.

[768]

Typical car forums. Always full of radical feminists.

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

Where have I stated that I hate women and how is trans equality taking rights away from women?

You haven't stated it, but I can think of no other reason for you to want to take their rights away like this.

Do you also think that "trans women" should be allowed into women only prisons and refuges? The two views tend to go together, which of course facilitates the brtal rape of actual female prisoners and victims of domestic violence.

That seems not to bother the activists though, who don't mind that as long as they get to appear woke on the internet.

Edited by Northernboy on Monday 21st June 12:31

[chrispmartha]

Northernboy said:

ZedLeg said:

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

All you are doing here is using a slur against people who don't agree with you, and you are doing it to avoid engaging in an actual discussion, as you know that the facts simply aren't on your side.

You are asserting that men are really women, and when challenged, aren't backing it up.

You know that you can't come up with a definition of "woman" that fits with your ideology and isn't circular, so you are avoiding the question. You also know that there is a perfectly good scientific description that you simply dislike.

What about the gender definition of woman?

[ZedLeg]

Northernboy said:

ZedLeg said:

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

All you are doing here is using a slur against people who don't agree with you, and you are doing it to avoid engaging in an actual discussion, as you know that the facts simply aren't on your side.

You are asserting that men are really women, and when challenged, aren't backing it up.

You know that you can't come up with a definition of "woman" that fits with your ideology and isn't circular, so you are avoiding the question. You also know that there is a perfectly good scientific description that you simply dislike.

terf isn't a slur, it's a factual description. I never actually called anyone here a terf, I just said I've seen the arguments used by them too.

I'm not asserting that men are really women but I'm also loath to get any further into an argument that's not going to have any positive outcome. I might just bow out and let you have your win.

[NickCQ]

ZedLeg said:

NickCQ said:

ZedLeg said:

terf

I don't see any radical feminists posting on this thread.

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

TERF is an acronym that originated inside the feminist movement to describe gender critical / "trans exclusionary radical feminists" (T.E.R.F.s).

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

terf isn't a slur, it's a factual description. I never actually called anyone here a terf, I just said I've seen the arguments used by them too.

I'm not asserting that men are really women but I'm also loath to get any further into an argument that's not going to have any positive outcome. I might just bow out and let you have your win.

So, throw some slurs around, refuse to actually contribute, and when asked, back out.

That's pretty typical trans activist behaviour, agitate to do genuine harm to women, and when questioned on it insult, refuse to engage, and change the subject.

I can see what you are.

[ZedLeg]

NickCQ said:

ZedLeg said:

NickCQ said:

ZedLeg said:

terf

I don't see any radical feminists posting on this thread.

That's because terfs aren't feminists, the people using their arguments here may not see themselves as such but they're definitely drinking the same kool aid.

TERF is an acronym that originated inside the feminist movement to describe gender critical / "trans exclusionary radical feminists" (T.E.R.F.s).

I'm aware of where it came from but the people I would define as terfs have drifted a long way from feminism imo.

[Northernboy]

chrispmartha said:

What about the gender definition of woman?

What's that then? Woman refers to sex, gender refers to the societal behaviours that result from it, such as differential entry into various careers, expectations of child rearing, etc. What woudl a gender definition of women actually mean?

I think that possibly you are using gender in a non-standard way here, just as others are now trying to do the same with "woman." There are generally accepted to be over 100 genders nowadays by those that subscribe to the notion; is the suggestion that a set of those maps onto "woman"? If so, which ones?

Demiqueer? Neutrois? Agender? Androgyne? Genderqueer?

[ChocolateFrog]

Isn't it something like $100000 dollars for a world record?

Shame it isn't the same in powerlifting, I could make a few quid 😂

I could rewrite a few women's records without too much sweat.

[NickCQ]

ZedLeg said:

I'm aware of where it came from but the people I would define as terfs have drifted a long way from feminism imo.

Yet there are many with strong and long-standing feminist credentials that aren't on board with the Stonewall view of gender and would, in your eyes, be terfs. If you think someone's a transphobe call them that.

[ZedLeg]

Northernboy said:

ZedLeg said:

terf isn't a slur, it's a factual description. I never actually called anyone here a terf, I just said I've seen the arguments used by them too.

I'm not asserting that men are really women but I'm also loath to get any further into an argument that's not going to have any positive outcome. I might just bow out and let you have your win.

So, throw some slurs around, refuse to actually contribute, and when asked, back out.

That's pretty typical trans activist behaviour, agitate to do genuine harm to women, and when questioned on it insult, refuse to engage, and change the subject.

I can see what you are.

Ok, last attempt at a reasonable discussion. I've not used any slurs here, I've also not now or ever suggested that women should be put in danger.

Using the "adult human female" that some gender critical (is that a slur yet?) people like to use. In my view trans women fall into this. If they don't what criteria do you use to exclude them, chromosomal? Some people born as women would be excluded. Ability to give birth? Some people born as women would be excluded.

My point is that the idea of womanhood that the GC movement has is so reductive it hurts as many biological women as trans ones.

[ZedLeg]

NickCQ said:

ZedLeg said:

I'm aware of where it came from but the people I would define as terfs have drifted a long way from feminism imo.

Yet there are many with strong and long-standing feminist credentials that aren't on board with the Stonewall view of gender and would, in your eyes, be terfs. If you think someone's a transphobe call them that.

Oh I do, they take that as a badge of honour though.

[GroundZero]

rover 623gsi said:

Biology is not bigotry

+1
Seems strange in the modern day that this point has to be stated time and time again on this issue and issues surrounding it.

[DanL]

ZedLeg said:

DanL said:

It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.

If Laurel Hubbard does well, I'm sure we'll hear from the usual suspects that it's completely unfair. If she doesn't do you think anyone will admit they were creating an issue based on their own prejudice?

No, and you can absolutely predict where this thread is heading too.

Have to say, I’m not familiar with the regulations on this. I’d be more on board with someone fully transitioned, than someone self identifying and with low testosterone… I assume the reality is somewhere between the two, but I’ll duck out of the thread at this point I think.

[chrispmartha]

Northernboy said:

chrispmartha said:

What about the gender definition of woman?

What's that then? Woman refers to sex, gender refers to the societal behaviours that result from it, such as differential entry into various careers, expectations of child rearing, etc. What woudl a gender definition of women actually mean?

I think that possibly you are using gender in a non-standard way here, just as others are now trying to do the same with "woman." There are generally accepted to be over 100 genders nowadays by those that subscribe to the notion; is the suggestion that a set of those maps onto "woman"? If so, which ones?

Demiqueer? Neutrois? Agender? Androgyne? Genderqueer?

What’s gender?

Read the gender equality act, over 100 genders? Well in the UK there are 2 legal genders and a person can change theres.

You don’t think men can be women, legally you’re wrong.