First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[gregs656]

p2c said:

Has English rugby explained how a 91kg 171cm skilled trans woman has different laws of physics to a 91kg 171cm skilled cis women?

Come on, body composition matters. Don't pretend you don't know this.

[768]

p2c said:

Has English rugby explained how a 91kg 171cm skilled trans woman has different laws of physics to a 91kg 171cm skilled cis women?

GCSE biology did it for them.

[p2c]

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

Emma Hilton who was one of the key researchers for world rugby policy is a founding member of a gender critical lobby group that hound any organisation with trans inclusion policies or statements, are campaigning to shut down stonewall because of their trans inclusion, have written to every stonewall diversity champion calling for them to drop stonewall over their trans inclusion and have the ear of government and EHRC

As for the so called research World rugby conducted, It involved or studied the performance of zero elite trans athletes.

I genuinely don't understand how you can have all this information and still think 'this is the year'

It makes no sense to me. If I was looking to progress trans rights in sports, I would want someone absolutely bullet proof.

Over 3 billion people watch the Olympics. God knows the proportion of them who are trans, or have met a trans person, or have any awareness of trans gender people at all. It is a PR disaster.

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

[ZedLeg]

The person copy pasting comments multiple times on a page is always the one who looks like a crank.

I've made my opinion on this perfectly clear.

In an ideal world I would like to see transwomen compete as women with no distinction from cisgendered women.

I understand that this may not always be the correct way to go so I'll always accept a sport's ruling body's judgement if it's backed up with evidence.

I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough about the science to claim that I know better than these people. I'd be surprised if many of the people commenting here were.

You're looking for a black and white answer to a gray situation, you and others might disagree that it's not black and white but that doesn't make them any more right than me.

Whether you think this answer is copping out/running away whatever is up to you. It's the best answer I can give.

[ZedLeg]

trails said:

ZedLeg said:

Is this where you're at now, just repeating the same blinkered question at someone over and over?

You look like a crank.

Isn't that kind of disingenuous when you are doing just the same, albeit without the question mark...so could the same critique be levelled at you?

How have I been posting the same thing over and over?

[RobbieTheTruth]

p2c said:

Has English rugby explained how a 91kg 171cm skilled trans woman has different laws of physics to a 91kg 171cm skilled cis women?

Are you actually serious here?

[RobbieTheTruth]

RobbieTheTruth said:

p2c said:

Has English rugby explained how a 91kg 171cm skilled trans woman has different laws of physics to a 91kg 171cm skilled cis women?

Are you actually serious here?

Like someone has just said. GCSE Biology would more than cover this.

[MC Bodge]

p2c said:

We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

If I were you I'd just leave twitter. I'm not sure that many people have strong views in real life.

I appreciate that life must be very challenging.

Elite women's sport does not appear to be a good choice of hill to die on for trans rights, though.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 25th June 16:13

[gregs656]

p2c said:

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

I was not suggesting there is a trans lobby, I was addressing you specifically and your approach/thoughts on this.

[RobbieTheTruth]

RobbieTheTruth said:

p2c said:

Has English rugby explained how a 91kg 171cm skilled trans woman has different laws of physics to a 91kg 171cm skilled cis women?

Are you actually serious here?

I still can't believe this statement actually!!!

[RobbieTheTruth]

p2c said:

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

Emma Hilton who was one of the key researchers for world rugby policy is a founding member of a gender critical lobby group that hound any organisation with trans inclusion policies or statements, are campaigning to shut down stonewall because of their trans inclusion, have written to every stonewall diversity champion calling for them to drop stonewall over their trans inclusion and have the ear of government and EHRC

As for the so called research World rugby conducted, It involved or studied the performance of zero elite trans athletes.

I genuinely don't understand how you can have all this information and still think 'this is the year'

It makes no sense to me. If I was looking to progress trans rights in sports, I would want someone absolutely bullet proof.

Over 3 billion people watch the Olympics. God knows the proportion of them who are trans, or have met a trans person, or have any awareness of trans gender people at all. It is a PR disaster.

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

People just want to know if you think it's fair that an ex-male can directly compete with females to win Olympic medals at lifting.

The fact that you view that as a trick question designed to trip you up tells us everything.

[p2c]

MC Bodge said:

p2c said:

We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

If I were you I'd just leave twitter. I'm not sure that many people have strong views in real life.

I appreciate that life must be very challenging.

Elite women's sport does appear to be a good choice of hill to die on for trans rights, though.

Nobody cared about trans people in sport until the heritage foundation in conjunction with a few key gender critical from the UK decided it was the next front they were going to open up against us. Shortly thereafter despite no trans athletes being in any elite competitive position it all blew up. We had no say in it, all trans people can do is defend ourselvs with the knowledge that HRT makes a hell of a difference, one that no cis person can understand as no other groups of healthy people eliminate testosterone from their bodies.

[trails]

ZedLeg said:

How have I been posting the same thing over and over?

You believe that transwomen should compete in elite women's sport, that much is clear; but without answering the question around biological advantage and it's fairness to those without that advantage in those competitions.

[ZedLeg]

trails said:

ZedLeg said:

How have I been posting the same thing over and over?

You believe that transwomen should compete in elite women's sport, that much is clear; but without answering the question around biological advantage and it's fairness to those without that advantage in those competitions.

I've answered that question as best I can and consistently the multiple times it's been asked, just because it's not the answer they're looking for isn't my problem. It's hardly the same as copy pasting the exact same text into multiple comments on a page.

[p2c]

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

I was not suggesting there is a trans lobby, I was addressing you specifically and your approach/thoughts on this.

gregs656 said:

I genuinely don't understand how you can have all this information and still think 'this is the year'

I have no influence on if Laurel competes this year or not.

gregs656 said:

It makes no sense to me. If I was looking to progress trans rights in sports, I would want someone absolutely bullet proof.

I have no influence on any other better trans person competing,

gregs656 said:

Over 3 billion people watch the Olympics. God knows the proportion of them who are trans, or have met a trans person, or have any awareness of trans gender people at all. It is a PR disaster.

There is no trans PR department I wish there was.

[MC Bodge]

p2c said:

MC Bodge said:

p2c said:

We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

If I were you I'd just leave twitter. I'm not sure that many people have strong views in real life.

I appreciate that life must be very challenging.

Elite women's sport does not appear to be a good choice of hill to die on for trans rights, though.

Nobody cared about trans people in sport until the heritage foundation in conjunction with a few key gender critical from the UK decided it was the next front they were going to open up against us. Shortly thereafter despite no trans athletes being in any elite competitive position it all blew up. We had no say in it, all trans people can do is defend ourselvs with the knowledge that HRT makes a hell of a difference, one that no cis person can understand as no other groups of healthy people eliminate testosterone from their bodies.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider myself anti-trans-gender or phobic. I would hope that I am not offensive towards anybody.

I didn't really consider the elite sport issue until I read an article in The Guardian about Laurel Hubbard taking part in the Olympics.

"Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard will be first trans athlete to compete at Olympics" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olym...

I think that she is actually harming your cause.

I have no connection with any anti trans-gender organisation, nor am I sure what "gender critical" means.

I understand that the word was created as the opposite to trans, but I have never felt that the prefix "cis-" was required to signify "non-trans", but that does not indicate fear or hatred.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 25th June 16:34

[trails]

ZedLeg said:

I've answered that question as best I can and consistently the multiple times it's been asked, just because it's not the answer they're looking for isn't my problem. It's hardly the same as copy pasting the exact same text into multiple comments on a page.

Whilst you may not have been cutting and pasting you have not answered in the same direct manner as the questions were posed...so perhaps you are more eloquent than others, but are actually just behaving in the same way.

[gregs656]

p2c said:

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

I was not suggesting there is a trans lobby, I was addressing you specifically and your approach/thoughts on this.

gregs656 said:

I genuinely don't understand how you can have all this information and still think 'this is the year'

I have no influence on if Laurel competes this year or not.

gregs656 said:

It makes no sense to me. If I was looking to progress trans rights in sports, I would want someone absolutely bullet proof.

I have no influence on any other better trans person competing,

gregs656 said:

Over 3 billion people watch the Olympics. God knows the proportion of them who are trans, or have met a trans person, or have any awareness of trans gender people at all. It is a PR disaster.

There is no trans PR department I wish there was.

I will rephrase:

The questions would be, in your opinion: Is Laurel competing in the Olympics this year likely to help or hinder future trans athletes over the short to medium term? Do you think Laurel is the ideal person to expose the world to trans athletes? And do you think it is likely to be a PR disaster - as in, is it going to generate more negative or positive response from the worlds press, and social media?

[ZedLeg]

trails said:

ZedLeg said:

I've answered that question as best I can and consistently the multiple times it's been asked, just because it's not the answer they're looking for isn't my problem. It's hardly the same as copy pasting the exact same text into multiple comments on a page.

Whilst you may not have been cutting and pasting you have not answered in the same direct manner as the questions were posed...so perhaps you are more eloquent than others, but are actually just behaving in the same way.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. I've answered questions posed to me, people say I'm being evasive when I answer and they say I'm being evasive when I point out that I've already answered that question. Someone asking a question about a complicated issue and expecting a yes or no answer doesn't mean that they're going to get one.

[Randy Winkman]

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

gregs656 said:

p2c said:

There is no trans lobby, we don't all get together and agree "this is the year for Laurel to have a go in the Olympics" Trans people have zero input on the st that hits our fan each day. We just wake up and look on twitter to see what the gender critical are attacking us for today and do the best we can to survive to tomorrow, where we start again.

I was not suggesting there is a trans lobby, I was addressing you specifically and your approach/thoughts on this.

gregs656 said:

I genuinely don't understand how you can have all this information and still think 'this is the year'

I have no influence on if Laurel competes this year or not.

gregs656 said:

It makes no sense to me. If I was looking to progress trans rights in sports, I would want someone absolutely bullet proof.

I have no influence on any other better trans person competing,

gregs656 said:

Over 3 billion people watch the Olympics. God knows the proportion of them who are trans, or have met a trans person, or have any awareness of trans gender people at all. It is a PR disaster.

There is no trans PR department I wish there was.

I will rephrase:

The questions would be, in your opinion: Is Laurel competing in the Olympics this year likely to help or hinder future trans athletes over the short to medium term? Do you think Laurel is the ideal person to expose the world to trans athletes? And do you think it is likely to be a PR disaster - as in, is it going to generate more negative or positive response from the worlds press, and social media?

My basic views on the issues are that in year's to come I'd like to see more acceptance all over the world of transgender people and more such people feeling free to be themselves. But I don't think that the Olympic weightlifter issue will help that to happen.