First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics
Discussion
Isn't it the case that athletes that have a continuing advantage due to previous doping are allowed back into the games after a ban, including those that got 4 year bans at the last Olympics and are now eligible for this year's games?
If so it shows the IOC aren't particularly interested in fair competition, so this shouldn't really surprise anyone.
If so it shows the IOC aren't particularly interested in fair competition, so this shouldn't really surprise anyone.
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
Where have I stated that I hate women and how is trans equality taking rights away from women?
You haven't stated it, but I can think of no other reason for you to want to take their rights away like this.Do you also think that "trans women" should be allowed into women only refuges? The two views tend to go together, which of course facilitates the brtal rape of actual female prisoners.
That seems not to bother the activists though, who don't mind that as long as they get to appear woke on the internet.
I think the issue is some on the trans side want trans and cis to be deemed the same. But in some cases they simply are not. Eating an ice cream the same, power lifting different.
They should simply have a trans (or possibly open) category. If there are enough trans athletes willing to qualify and compete in an event, then set that event up.
There already exists Paralympics and Special Olympics so why not TransOlympics?
Competition should be fair, otherwise it is a farce.
There already exists Paralympics and Special Olympics so why not TransOlympics?
Competition should be fair, otherwise it is a farce.
Northernboy said:
I think that possibly you are using gender in a non-standard way here,...
Agree.This is the root of many of the arguments I've seen on these topics.
'Sex' is biological - an issue of fact and a scientific method of separating men and women. With a very small percentage of DNA mutational abnormalities that can result in cases of inter-sex. But on the main the biological use of 'sex' holds true for the vast majority to the point that it is the standard method.
"Gender" was historically used as a synonym to mean 'sex' when applied to separating the biology of men and women, but recently attempts to redefined it have occurred by various groups of society for various agendas to encompass many different things to further various group's goals.
We are now in a situation where one group will define "gender" as one thing and another group will define it as another and as such the term "gender" becomes utterly useless in discussions.
ZedLeg said:
Ok, last attempt at a reasonable discussion. I've not used any slurs here, I've also not now or ever suggested that women should be put in danger.
Using the "adult human female" that some gender critical (is that a slur yet?) people like to use. In my view trans women fall into this. If they don't what criteria do you use to exclude them, chromosomal? Some people born as women would be excluded. Ability to give birth? Some people born as women would be excluded.
My point is that the idea of womanhood that the GC movement has is so reductive it hurts as many biological women as trans ones.
They aren't female. We have a realy good and simple definition of male and female, and a man living as a woman isn't it.Using the "adult human female" that some gender critical (is that a slur yet?) people like to use. In my view trans women fall into this. If they don't what criteria do you use to exclude them, chromosomal? Some people born as women would be excluded. Ability to give birth? Some people born as women would be excluded.
My point is that the idea of womanhood that the GC movement has is so reductive it hurts as many biological women as trans ones.
You are going to need to define your terms, as you must be using "female" to mean somethng different to how most other people use it.
chrispmartha said:
What if they disagree with you?
How long will they disagree if female sport becomes dominated by trans athletes?A few golds at the olympics should test many a female athletes patience I imagine, I wouldnt be to happy if serveral decades of hard work were ruled irrelevant by the introduction of trans athletes competing against me.
toasty said:
They should simply have a trans (or possibly open) category. If there are enough trans athletes willing to qualify and compete in an event, then set that event up.
There already exists Paralympics and Special Olympics so why not TransOlympics?
Competition should be fair, otherwise it is a farce.
There effectively is an open category. There already exists Paralympics and Special Olympics so why not TransOlympics?
Competition should be fair, otherwise it is a farce.
ZedLeg said:
The idea that anyone would go through the long and arduous process of transitioning purely to get an advantage in sport would be laughable if it wasn’t so insulting to trans people.
Care to suggest a motive in this case?https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/tr...
Rick1.8t said:
chrispmartha said:
What if they disagree with you?
How long will they disagree if female sport becomes dominated by trans athletes?A few golds at the olympics should test many a female athletes patience I imagine, I wouldnt be to happy if serveral decades of hard work were ruled irrelevant by the introduction of trans athletes competing against me.
Female sports being dominated by trans athletes isn’t likely to happen any time soon.
GroundZero said:
+1
Seems strange in the modern day that this point has to be stated time and time again on this issue and issues surrounding it.
Part of the trans activist's argument relies on them claimoing that there is no such thing as biological sex. They'll make claims such as a baby is "assigned" a gender at birth, or they'll disingenuously claim that people with DSDs (previously refered to confusingly as intersex people) are neither male nor female, whereas the reality is that sex is observed at birth, not assigned, and pretty much everyone with a DSD is unequivocaly male or female.Seems strange in the modern day that this point has to be stated time and time again on this issue and issues surrounding it.
And, of course, DSDs have nothing tyo do with being Trans, an umbrella term that has now been widened to include cross-dressers such as Eddie Izzard.
Sex is determined in-utero, normally by the presence of the "SRY" gene (normally on the Y chromosome, but rarely it can be transposed onto an X) which triggers the production of male gnads and suppresses the development of female ones. This is what is scientificaly understood by sex, which gametes you delevop towards the support of.
The two pathways are sufficiently antagonistic that you can't develop down both, and it's generally not viable to travel down neither.
This well understood science has to be completely thrown out, and cod science put in its place instead, which tends to require the existence of some sort of "innate" gender.
The whole idea makes little sense; none of us knows what it feels like to be male or female, we know what it feels to be us, but we have no idea which partsf that sense of being are common to our sex, which are common to humanity, and which are unique to us, so there's not possible way to say that you feel "like "the opposite sex.
chrispmartha said:
amgmcqueen said:
GroundZero said:
Vickers_VC10 said:
Cheating. Simple as that.
It is.I feel sorry for the women competing in that event.
It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
Some Gump said:
I'm going to out an mr2 bodykit on a 355 and go smash it in the toyota 1 make series.
This is the best analogy so far!People would still argue that was fair though...and if you disagree with them then you're a bigoted, racist, misogynist, trans phobic b
d. Lol. The world has gone beyond mad. It's such a shame these tiny minority groups are allowed to have such influence where common sense really should prevail.
eldar said:
As Zed says, prolific and violent sexual offender "Karen" white is just another woman to him, and the fact that "she" has a penis and uses it to rape people doesn't mean that we should be man by saying that she's actually a man.amgmcqueen said:
Why would they? All that training and dedication they've shown will be for nothing! What next? Usain Bolt identifying as female competing in the women's 100m final....?!
It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
According to the tenet that says that self-ID is enough then he absolutely could do this. His height, bone structure, musculature etc woudl remain absolutely male, but he woudl be allowed to compete as a woman if he simply stated that he was.It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
A male powerlifetr called Zuby Music did this a while back, identified as a woman, smashed a few records, and then stopped identifyng as a woman. Again, as per those who state that self-ID is enough he now holds the women's world records for those lifts.
amgmcqueen said:
Why would they? All that training and dedication they've shown will be for nothing! What next? Usain Bolt identifying as female competing in the women's 100m final....?!
It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
Why would they? Why not ask them rather than assuming women think the same as you?It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
Fwiw women tend to be more supportive of trans rights.
Fwiw I’m not 100% sure where I stand on the trans sports issue I think it’s really quite complicated and do not inow enough about sports science so don’t have string views either way.
But also I wouldn’t claim to know what women and indeed sports women think on the issue.
chrispmartha said:
Why would they? Why not ask them rather than assuming women think the same as you?
Fwiw women tend to be more supportive of trans rights..
Not when the survey is done honestly. If you ask people if trans women should be aowed to use female toilets it turns out that many respondents think that tey are being asked about biological females, and answer accordingly. If insted you ask whether men who identify as women should be able to use female facilities you get a more honest answer.Fwiw women tend to be more supportive of trans rights..
chrispmartha said:
amgmcqueen said:
Why would they? All that training and dedication they've shown will be for nothing! What next? Usain Bolt identifying as female competing in the women's 100m final....?!
It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
Why would they? Why not ask them rather than assuming women think the same as you?It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
Fwiw women tend to be more supportive of trans rights.
Fwiw I’m not 100% sure where I stand on the trans sports issue I think it’s really quite complicated and do not inow enough about sports science so don’t have string views either way.
But also I wouldn’t claim to know what women and indeed sports women think on the issue.
Northernboy said:
amgmcqueen said:
Why would they? All that training and dedication they've shown will be for nothing! What next? Usain Bolt identifying as female competing in the women's 100m final....?!
It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
According to the tenet that says that self-ID is enough then he absolutely could do this. His height, bone structure, musculature etc woudl remain absolutely male, but he woudl be allowed to compete as a woman if he simply stated that he was.It's pathetic woke nonsense, dreamed up by idiots. Has no place in the Olympic games or any sport for that matter.
A male powerlifetr called Zuby Music did this a while back, identified as a woman, smashed a few records, and then stopped identifyng as a woman. Again, as per those who state that self-ID is enough he now holds the women's world records for those lifts.
Are you talking about the rapper (hes not a powerlifter)that posted a video of him weight lifting claiming that he’d broken the record, does he actually hold the record?
Edited by chrispmartha on Monday 21st June 13:33
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