CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)

[anonymous-user]

jameswills said:

SS2. said:

I'm sure there's a few shills on here who would love Elysium to stop contributing - it would make their job much easier.

And as for the faux concern - do me a favour

They’ve made it a little bit too obvious as to their agenda, a slip perhaps? Mind you it’s always attack the poster, discredit and cancel rather than offer any meaningful rebuttal, so probably shouldn’t be surprised. Excellent reasoned post by Elysium.

I would add a caveat to it though that I would be a bit less critical of people who are supporting the lockdowns and restrictions as they have been utterly bombarded with fear and misuse of information for well over a year from a cleverly crafted campaign from a government they firmly believe is there to protect them. It’s a mother turning on its young, yet the young clinging on tighter. I know of many friends with family members that have issues for instance one still won’t ride in the car with their own grandkids for fear of spreading the virus, they have lost all perspective on life.

The paranoia of some on here is unreal - supported by a completely deluded idea of how ‘other’ people think and behave.

Can I ask a couple of questions of the wise ones here:

Who are the paid Government shills on PH? How much are they paid? What is the “agenda”?

[hyphen]

Married father of three Matt Hancock, with someone else's wife

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15388014/matt-hancoc...

Edited by hyphen on Friday 25th June 08:15

[NewBod]

hyphen said:

Married father of three Matt Hancock, with someone else's wife


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9723683/H...

This doesn't come as a surprise. I bet he came as a surprise though.

What I can't get my head around is how people like him attract women. He is quite clearly a clueless, lying plonker with baggage. Yet attractive women like her are clearly up for a bit with the likes of him.

Is it a power thing?

What was that classic quote from Bernie Ecclestone's wife - he isn't so short when he stands on his wallet darling.

[V1nce Fox]

I was convinced he was in the closet. That’s a fiver i owe myself.

[Scolmore]

Roman Rhodes said:

The paranoia of some on here is unreal - supported by a completely deluded idea of how ‘other’ people think and behave.

Can I ask a couple of questions of the wise ones here:

Who are the paid Government shills on PH? How much are they paid? What is the “agenda”?

Looks like you might need to drop them an email to ask about salary levels.
https://british-army.career-inspiration.com/app/di...

[Saweep]

If he goes today, that means this nonsense is over I hope.

Gove should watch his back too if so...Mrs Johnson has obviously decided it's time to get rid of the covid loons.

Fingers crossed!

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo]

NewBod said:

This doesn't come as a surprise. I bet he came as a surprise though.

What I can't get my head around is how people like him attract women. He is quite clearly a clueless, lying plonker with baggage. Yet attractive women like her are clearly up for a bit with the likes of him.

Is it a power thing?

What was that classic quote from Bernie Ecclestone's wife - he isn't so short when he stands on his wallet darling.

It’s a way of feathering their nests for a life of comfort. Get into those circles and you can skip husband to husband making money.

[Bikesalot]

Prof Gabriel Scally of independent sage on GMB this morning calling for under 18s to be vaccinated and that it’s too early for any travel abroad.

Absolute tool of a human being.

So we’ve got;
Red list
Amber list
Green watch list
Green list

Grant trying to blag his way through justifying the low rate countries not being on the green list, it’s not just case rates, it’s genome sequencing, and ‘lots of other data’.
Another tool.

Edited by Bikesalot on Friday 25th June 08:34

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo]

Bikesalot said:

Prof Gabriel Scally of independent sage on GMB this morning calling for under 18s to be vaccinated and that it’s too early for any travel abroad.

Absolute tool of a human being.

So we’ve got;
Red list
Amber list
Green watch list
Green list

Grant trying to blag his way through justifying the low rate countries not being on the green list, it’s not just case rates, it’s genome sequencing, and ‘lots of other data’.
Another tool.

Edited by Bikesalot on Friday 25th June 08:34

Anyone letting these lunatics jab their kids need their head looking at.

[NerveAgent]

Saweep said:

If he goes today, that means this nonsense is over I hope.

Gove should watch his back too if so...Mrs Johnson has obviously decided it's time to get rid of the covid loons.

Fingers crossed!

We can but hope!

[Elysium]

akadk said:

I love you

Thanks (I think?) and thanks to everyone else who agrees at least 'in general' with the post I made yesterday.

If I had posted that a year ago I would have been immediately attacked. I would have received replies suggesting that I was a dangerous monster. That I wanted people to die.

We have come a very long way and does me a world of good to know that I am not alone in thinking as I do. None of us are.

It's hard to remember that.

I am very much reminded of the opening verse of 'If':

KIpling said:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

[rover 623gsi]

tigamilla said:

Elysium said:

foreright said:

Hoink said:

Happy is a strange word to use when describing how you've felt through this.

What about the younger members of your family? Do you have children, grandchildren, nieces or nephews, etc? Do you not feel for them?

Don’t feed the gnome…

Some people might think this is a bit of an 'extreme' post, but I want to get this off my chest.

The people who blithely tell us that they are entirely happy with lockdowns and that we should stop whinging and simply do as we are told seem to believe that they are on the moral high ground.

I think they have abandoned all morality.

I see lockdown as an act of aggression. A direct attack on the welfare of my family and the people I care about. It's proponents did not give a moments thought to the stupidity of lockdown, it's inherent unfairness or the damage and despair that it has caused. They care nothing for its long term impact or the many ways that it has changed our society for the worse.

Lockdown is the action of a totalitarian state. Neil Ferguson famously said that no one believed we would accept the sort of authoritarian control that China used to stamp down on COVID at the expense of its people. And we should not have accepted it.

I can forgive people who went along with it at first when we didn't know what we were dealing with. If it had been airborne ebola than perhaps our response might have made sense. But its not. It is a stty little virus that ruthlessly attacks the most vulnerable in society, whilst causing little real trouble to everyone else.

The people who continue to cheer on restrictions now that the vulnerable are vaccinated do not deserve any respect. They are selfish immoral cowards who have inverted everything that this country stood for. They have torched our democratic history and they threaten our childrens future.

I think that slowly, inexorably, the truth of this will begin to emerge. To the point that, eventually, everyone will claim to have opposed lockdown. Sadly this was not the case. Its proponents are guilty of an unimaginative, stupid, banal evil and I very much hope to see the worst offenders stand trial for what I believe is a crime against humanity.

I don't think these views are strange. I think it is strange that so many people do not share them. That their inner morality is a fleeting, mishapen thing that they are willing to twist and contort. So that they can convince themselves that just about anything is acceptable, provided that they perceive it to be in their own selfish interests.

I am sorry if this offends anyone, but it is my deeply held belief. I will not easily forgive the states appalling intrusion in our private family lives over the last 16 months. Things have been taken from us that can never be replaced and I hope there will be a steep price to pay by those responsible.

Edited by Elysium on Thursday 24th June 21:01

Spot on sir

100%

[Twinfan]

johnboy1975 said:

Nickgnome said:

Great, Let's try and move on.

It is important to take out all other variables just for this comparison.

A vaccinated person is 80% less likely to be infected according to the data and as more become available it is just confirming the number.

So they have a 20% chance of infection. This does assume the conditions are such that they would have been infected for definite ie 100% but that does not matter for the comparison because that will be constant for the particular situation.

I think this is where you are going wrong. 80% less (I thought this was 50%?? But we will use your numbers).

But its 80% less than 1%-5% depending on the study and/ot the environment.

So unvaccinated its 1% say. Vaccinated its 0.2%.

So a 0.8% drop in reality. Which is smaller than the 80% headline figure

I think

And if it was 100% as per your kissing scenario, I think it would be 100% for the vaccinated person too. Or at least they would test positive. And possibly be "infectious".

I think

Your correct in that the gnome is mixing up all his numbers, and completely misunderstands the maths.

An analyst he is not.

[Elysium]

Saweep said:

If he goes today, that means this nonsense is over I hope.

Gove should watch his back too if so...Mrs Johnson has obviously decided it's time to get rid of the covid loons.

Fingers crossed!

An anonymous 'whistleblower' with access to the internal security systems of the DHSC?

It does feel as if he may be finally being thrown under the bus. Matt 'fking useless' Hancock was always going to be the scapegoat and perhaps now is the time.

They say "God loves a trier" and it amused me to see that Grant Shapps has attempted to argue this complied with social distancing rules:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/matt-hancock...

Grant Shapps said:

I'm quite sure that whatever the rules were at the time were followed.

You'll recall that there was a point at which social distancing rules were changed but, as I say, I don't want to comment on somebody else's private life - that is for them

I am pretty certain that this runs counter to the DHSCs 'COVID Secure' risk assessment.

Edited by Elysium on Friday 25th June 09:16

[monkeychild]

Elysium's charts have been a breath of fresh air in a sea of smoggy nonsense. As for your post yesterday, I am 100% in agreement with you, I have had enough of this merry go round of BS.

As for the gnome, I literally can't fathom out if you are a sad troll or really that detached from reality. Your grandkids musn't take part in any form of indoor competitive hobby or have a good social circle in school to be "happy" in lockdown, as all the kids we know (and we know a lot through a large family and my wife helps out in a club) were fking miserable and wanted to see their friends and go to their clubs. So what if they can see people on a screen? It's hardly normal F2F interaction that kids need.

[Biker 1]

I almost wish that she had tested positive - imagine what excuses wkcock would need to tell his Mrs.....

[NewBod]

Elysium said:

Thanks (I think?) and thanks to everyone else who agrees at least 'in general' with the post I made yesterday.

If I had posted that a year ago I would have been immediately attacked. I would have received replies suggesting that I was a dangerous monster. That I wanted people to die.

We have come a very long way and does me a world of good to know that I am not alone in thinking as I do. None of us are.

It's hard to remember that.

You aren't alone chap.

I'm the same. It's good to know there are others out there who feel the same way.

[anonymous-user]

NewBod said:

Elysium said:

Thanks (I think?) and thanks to everyone else who agrees at least 'in general' with the post I made yesterday.

If I had posted that a year ago I would have been immediately attacked. I would have received replies suggesting that I was a dangerous monster. That I wanted people to die.

We have come a very long way and does me a world of good to know that I am not alone in thinking as I do. None of us are.

It's hard to remember that.

You aren't alone chap.

I'm the same. It's good to know there are others out there who feel the same way.

Indeed. There are many who feel this way and just don’t feel the need to shout about it. Occasionally though, it’s good to share

[CrutyRammers]

Nickgnome said:

CrutyRammers said:

So why not just say that then, instead of the 20% nonsense?

Because you are either pushing an agenda, or, perhaps more likely, simply don't understand the figures you are quoting. 50% of 20% is a reasonable reduction and worth a certain amount of cost. 50% of 3% rather less so. 50% of a fraction of a percent, quite likely not . The argument is, and always has been, a cost-benefit analysis, as any risk reduction must be.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Lets cut through this we may get to some accord.

Do you accept that IF transmitabily is 100% between 2 people ie they are in close bodily contact, saliva exchange etc that If one of the is vaccinated then the reduction of possible infection for a vaccinated person is 80%?

You actually think I'm arguing that the vaccine doesn't reduce transmission, don't you? Because I must be a nasty anti vaxxer, me and my ilk.
I'm not. HTH.

[NewBod]

Some of you may recall about my visit to the swimming pool on Monday without a mask, which prompted other people to take theirs off.

Well, the swimming pool have issued an email to everyone today 'reminding' them of the rules. The email has lots of points about masks and the fact that you must wear them. Funnily enough, it doesn't mention anything about medical exemptions, just that you simply must wear them.

Makes me laugh to think that the coward member of staff who saw us didn't say anything to our faces, but scurried off to tell his colleagues.

There is also a bizarre rule that means everyone has to queue up in the corridor of the changing rooms which is small, narrow and unventilated. I think this has come about because I go straight through into the pool area with my daughter which is huge, ventilated, full of chlorine and I wait in there. They seem to have taken the hump to that.

Personally, with nonsense like that, I would remove my daughter from the swimming pool membership and stop paying them. However, I can't really do this as she needs to learn to swim and there aren't any other facilities for miles around.