White working class headlines...

[tangerine_sedge]

Murph7355 said:

cirian75 said:

Yup, its the working class kids suffering from decades with cuts to education.

Nowt do with the colour their skin.

Its classic divide and conquer.

I'm not convinced you can pin it on single root causes. There are plenty of kids from those backgrounds that do well.

Parenting and fully emphasising the importance of education are vital. Solid family units. Lack of visible prospects etc.

This is where the "white privelege" narrative is extremely counter productive. As you note, divide and conquer. But it also gives people excuses.

<rant> The failure of white working class kids has nothing to do with white privilege, or bad schooling, indeed the argument could be why are they still failing even though they have access to good education and a distinct advantage over working class kids from other backgrounds(*1)?

I think back to my own working class background (midlands mining town), and even at 10 you knew which kids were going to be succesful and which ones were going to make no progress in life, and that was entirely down to their aspirations and attitudes to work which they obviously got from their parents.

Whilst I was doing homework and revising, others were playing football and assuming that they'd get a job with their fathers at the pit. Whilst I went into further education, they signed on and went to the pub. As I waited to save enough money to set up home and start a family, they sired kids with whoever was stupid enough or drunk enough to let them.

As you might see, I have little sympathy for the working class left behind as they are their own worst enemy. Generation begatting generation of work-shy idiots only fit for the Infantry.
</rant> (*2)

(*1) can't be bothered to find it now, but the research showing applicants with "foreign sounding" names get fewer interviews than people with traditional British names.

(*2) On reading this rant back, it might come across as a bit snobbish, but the bottom line is that kids tend to reflect the aspirations and work ethics of their parents. If you want to understand why white working class kids fail, look at their parents and grand parents.

[sim72]

Esceptico said:

My experience at school is a bit out of date but I wonder how much has changed. My friends were white working class (until sixth form when they all left). In general my friends didn’t take school that seriously. They were all looking forward to leaving and get jobs (or just looking forward to leaving school!) Education was not highly valued by their parents and other family members and most were not pushed. Most of their parents were poorly educated and not able to give a significant input or direction. Their role models were people who had left and done well in trades (think Harry Enfield’s loads of money). They actively tried to disuade me from going to university.

The phrase “you can lead a horse to water” was apt. I wasn’t sure then and even less now how you deal with that attitude issue. I don’t think it is restricted to white working class. I think working class with roots in Pakistan, Bangladesh or the Caribbean also do poorly.

From someone who works in a school where >55% of our kids are of Asian origin, you'd be wrong to generalise the first two. Indeed, in my experience Bangladeshi families appear to have a very strong work ethic.

[sim72]

tangerine_sedge said:

On reading this rant back, it might come across as a bit snobbish, but the bottom line is that kids tend to reflect the aspirations and work ethics of their parents. If you want to understand why white working class kids fail, look at their parents and grand parents.

You are absolutely correct.

As an example, when we had OfSted in at a previous school I was required to provide some data for them.

One the most more startling results was that White British kids who qualified for Free School Meals had on average an attendance figure 8% less than other kids on FSM.

Doesn't sound a lot, 8% does it? But it's 3 full weeks a year.

[coppernorks]

tangerine_sedge said:

(*2) On reading this rant back, it might come across as a bit snobbish, but the bottom line is that kids tend to reflect the aspirations and work ethics of their parents. If you want to understand why white working class kids fail, look at their parents and grand parents.

Top quality ranting.
It echoes my experience, the kids that knuckled down and worked hard got the exam passes and
went on to good things, the class dorks [either thick or lazy ] passed fked all, and pissed away their lives.

Nothing to do with poor, uninspiring teachers or lack of money, everyone had the same
opportunity, some chose not to take it.

[steveatesh]

The issue of white working class kids not doing well at school has been known about for years, eg in a report dated 2006 from the Social Justice Policy Group. No matter what the causes, and personally I think it’s more to do with culture than anything else, the question is why is nothing being done about it and that the term “white privilege” directs attention away from those white kids who need support.

Bottom line is that kids who fail at school are more likely to drift into being NEET, worklessness, substance abuse, crime, health and other social issues that the rest of us pay for, and then they breed more of the same so it is inter generational ad infiniteum unless some government or other grasps the nettle.

[Liokault]

This thread is total tosh.

Yes white working class kids have been left behind. Look at the spending and the history.

Kids in London (massively likely to be black) get £1000 more spent on them per year by the state than kids in the north (massively likely to be white). The uplift in spending more or less coincided with the change from black inner city kids being seen as failing in educational setting to white working class becoming the lowest achievers.