Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 11

[hiccy18]

biggles330d said:

I read the Herald article on the Alfred. I have to say I really wonder about some of the islander attitudes and the priorities of some of our politicians. Now I'm no SNP fan, but fair play to the Transport Minister, she's ok'd the charter of the Alfred to try and fix the running sore that is the west coast ferries debacle.
In the report, some islanders seem to be grateful through gritted teeth, talking about unsuitable vessels and cost etc. And the Labour MSP Katy Clark is muttering about "panic'd decisions" and chartering vessels from operators with poor reputation for health and safety. FFS, it's not as if CalMac hasn't banged a few ferries about over the years running into piers and stuff. Judging by the amount of maintenance being needed today, I'd suggest you have to question how robust their repair and maintenance strategies have been over the years as well to have let the vessel get into such a poor condition.

No doubt the Labour MSP is well aware that if Alfred proves to be perfectly adequate for operating the route it shatters the nonsense that RMT and all the vested interests have had over years trying to protect the golden goose that keeps laying. Whether it works to give the islanders the connectivity they are asking for is probably well down her priority list.

There's a solution, it'll improve resiliency. The Alfred and Pentland Ferries have been operating perfectly well in waters far more severe than some ambling run to Arran or wherever its deployed and despite the scaremongering the Pentland Firth isn't littered with bodies and broken vessels from a shoddy and unsafe operation. Can't they just be a tiny bit grateful for once? Can't Labour or RMT accept that CalMac and State owned operation is a long long way from world class? Sometimes it sounds like some folk on the West Coast and definitely some of the political leadership would prefer to continue to wallow in the mire and moan a lot rather than actually find a workable solution.

I actually quite like Jenny Gilruth: I may disagree strongly on some of her political beliefs, but she presents as a well meaning person attempting to do a decent job, rather than just an ignorant, loud mouthed grifter. That said, I can well imagine Pentland Ferries going into a negotiation stating an (inflated) loss of profit, (inflated) additional costs, all of which would need compensated for in the contract, and Ms Gilruth seeing it at face value, signing off with little negotiation.

I find Pentland Ferries generally provide huge embarrassment for the state owned Calmac operation, and thereby the SG itself, a private company can do something effectively that the SG is incapable of despite inheriting well established infrastructure.

[irc]

There may well be issues with slower turnarounds due to the design. Working hours issues due to crew not living in board. I suspect they are more than outweighed by the ships costing a fraction of Calmac ferries and requiring smaller crews.

[munroman]

irc said:

They are hardly negotiating from a position of strength. The SNP are well know for paying top dollar and higher.

However. As the lease includes Pentlands staffing it. £9M probably not a rip off.

"

The MV Alfred will be based in Campbeltown until ready to go into service, and will be operated, staffed and maintained by the ship’s owners, Pentland Ferries."

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highland...

Edited by irc on Tuesday 21st March 08:22

I think they want to keep it out of sight, I doubt that it will get used on the Arran route, as too many people would see it actually working well.

We're due to do Lewis to Uist back to Skye in May, I wonder if we might be on the Alfred?

[Se7enheaven]

The ferry debacle and overall the state of the ferry transportation system in Scotland has shown how far we have fallen. Great Britain , a once great sea faring and ship building nation. Progress eh ? Isn’t it wonderful. An utter embarrassment and shambles. And the SNP have just put the top hat on it.

[vikingaero]

Se7enheaven said:

The ferry debacle and overall the state of the ferry transportation system in Scotland has shown how far we have fallen. Great Britain , a once great sea faring and ship building nation. Progress eh ? Isn’t it wonderful. An utter embarrassment and shambles. And the SNP have just put the top hat on it.

I'm not sure why you are involving the fall of GB PLC in seafaring?

The Scottish ferry debacle is solely the SNP/Scottish Governments fault and their dirty deeds in the Ferguson shipyard. At least the SNP/ScotGov are consistent in failure at everything they do/touch/get involved in/talk about. They make the Toarrees in Westminster look competent.

[Shambler]

Having knowledge of the industry and having worked with Calmac I would highlight the ridiculous wages staff are on. The various positions are on average 20% higher than the rest of the industry and that’s before you even look at the massive 26% pension contributions and holidays.

[Se7enheaven]

vikingaero said:

I'm not sure why you are involving the fall of GB PLC in seafaring?

The Scottish ferry debacle is solely the SNP/Scottish Governments fault and their dirty deeds in the Ferguson shipyard. At least the SNP/ScotGov are consistent in failure at everything they do/touch/get involved in/talk about. They make the Toarrees in Westminster look competent.

Believe me I detest the SNP with an passion and the blame solely lies at their door for the current situation , however the big picture just shows how fked we are as a country overall does it not ?

[SpeckledJim]

Se7enheaven said:

vikingaero said:

I'm not sure why you are involving the fall of GB PLC in seafaring?

The Scottish ferry debacle is solely the SNP/Scottish Governments fault and their dirty deeds in the Ferguson shipyard. At least the SNP/ScotGov are consistent in failure at everything they do/touch/get involved in/talk about. They make the Toarrees in Westminster look competent.

Believe me I detest the SNP with an passion and the blame solely lies at their door for the current situation , however the big picture just shows how fked we are as a country overall does it not ?

Whilst its a shame to see it go, welding and riveting big things together is not going to play a big part in the future of UK PLC. We're never going to be able to really compete at that stuff again. STEM, finance, and 'culture' is where we have some glimmer of an advantage. We need to focus on keeping it.

[Mammasaid]

SpeckledJim said:

Whilst its a shame to see it go, welding and riveting big things together is not going to play a big part in the future of UK PLC. We're never going to be able to really compete at that stuff again. STEM, finance, and 'culture' is where we have some glimmer of an advantage. We need to focus on keeping it.

I suggest you pop to Barrow, they may put you right in that respect.

[shtu]

SpeckledJim said:

Whilst its a shame to see it go, welding and riveting big things together is not going to play a big part in the future of UK PLC. We're never going to be able to really compete at that stuff again.

Absolutely. Far too much money has been wasted pandering to the heavy-engineering dinosaurs, just so we can say there's ships being built on the Clyde. It would be like saying we're world leaders in construction of steam locomotives - not really something to boast about.

Some wag previously pointed out that for what we have spent on two not-ferries, we could have had two actual ferries (from Vietnam or wherever), and been able to pay every single Ferguson's staff member a redundancy beyond their wildest dreams.

£250million (overspend) / 400 staff = £625,000 each.


Edit - Barrow. Slightly different, in that they're building military kit that we don't want to be dependent on others for. The nation takes the hit on cost for national security.

Edited by shtu on Tuesday 21st March 14:57

[irc]

£625k? We could have given then a million each. There was only 158 permanent staff when it was nationalised.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202200292570...

The Sturgeon line about saving 400 jobs is just another lie.

[WelshChris]

shtu said:

Absolutely. Far too much money has been wasted pandering to the heavy-engineering dinosaurs, just so we can say there's ships being built on the Clyde. It would be like saying we're world leaders in construction of steam locomotives - not really something to boast about.

We are world leaders in the construction of steam locomotives, and we boast about it regularly. HTH

[SpeckledJim]

Mammasaid said:

SpeckledJim said:

Whilst its a shame to see it go, welding and riveting big things together is not going to play a big part in the future of UK PLC. We're never going to be able to really compete at that stuff again. STEM, finance, and 'culture' is where we have some glimmer of an advantage. We need to focus on keeping it.

I suggest you pop to Barrow, they may put you right in that respect.

I'd stand corrected, but I gather that what they do in Barrow is a smidge more sophisticated than what they (used to) do on the Clyde and the Wear.

[Klippie]

One of the five new type 31 Frigate's we're building in Rosyth is to cost £250 million each, so the SNP have spent more than the cost of a brand new Warship on these two hulks and much more is going to spent to finish them.

Shocking waste of money...we could have had six new Frigates.

[Error_404_Username_not_found]

munroman said:

irc said:

The MV Alfred will be based in Campbeltown until ready to go into service, and will be operated, staffed and maintained by the ship’s owners, Pentland Ferries."

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highland...

Edited by irc on Tuesday 21st March 08:22

I think they want to keep it out of sight, I doubt that it will get used on the Arran route, as too many people would see it actually working well.

We're due to do Lewis to Uist back to Skye in May, I wonder if we might be on the Alfred?

I live in Campbeltown and I will be giving her a coat of looking-at with the keenest interest. For instance, I know the ferry berth on the New Quay very well, having been at one time the Assistant Harbourmaster. It will be interesting to see if the vessel integrates with the linkspan. Given her beam I'm inclined to doubt it at the moment but we'll see.
Also, I can't see from the photos if her cardeck is enclosed or not. If it is she cannot carry fuel tankers under present regulation. This is a vital consideration for the Western Isles routes. It might even be the main reason the Clansman remains in service despite her age, since she has an open cardeck.
Although it must be said the Clansman is a well loved ship. Despite being old and slow she's a lot more comfortable for the passengers than (eg) the Isle of Arran on the relatively long passage between Oban and Castlebay, which I have done many times on several ferries.

[rossub]

Klippie said:

One of the five new type 31 Frigate's we're building in Rosyth is to cost £250 million each, so the SNP have spent more than the cost of a brand new Warship on these two hulks and much more is going to spent to finish them.

Shocking waste of money...we could have had six new Frigates.

To be fair, the MOD doesn’t have a great track record of cost control either

[shtu]

irc said:

£625k? We could have given then a million each. There was only 158 permanent staff when it was nationalised.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202200292570...

The Sturgeon line about saving 400 jobs is just another lie.

Saving jobs is great, but not at any price.

On the same principle we should be ploughing a billion or so into Morton's Rolls, they had 250 staff.

[Master Of Puppets]

Good cartoon but the face is a bit too good looking compared to the real one.


Here's a good read. How Nicola Sturgeon Fooled—and Foiled—the Scottish Independence Campaign.

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commenta...

Article said:

Sturgeon had globalist ambitions and a disparaging attitude towards ordinary Scottish people. She wanted to take her place in the progressive pantheon of world leaders alongside Justin Trudeau and Jacinda Ardern. Ardern is gone, under similar circumstances having fallen from grace for overstepping the mark in New Zealand during the COVID-19 lockdown. The parallels between the two women and their failed careers is not lost on several commentators. Sturgeon’s ‘woke authoritarianism’ was her ultimate downfall. She walked into the transgender trap and found that she had fewer friends than she thought.

[Klippie]

rossub said:

To be fair, the MOD doesn’t have a great track record of cost control either

You have a point...but three times the original cost for ferries, no military tech on a ferry.

[Klippie]

Keeping the TV out of kicking range I've been listening to this interview, lies bullst, more lies, talking pish, utterly deluded and saying she felt bad during covid, her mush was never off the TV she loved the attention...what a cretin, a horrible horrible vile excuse for a woman/him/they/it, no appologies for anything she actually thinks she's done good....what the actual fk..!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNYMnLCv1uU&t=...