Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 11

[SpeckledJim]

Roderick Spode said:

I think Foghorn Dreghorn's little taxpayer funded junket to the Good Ol USA may have backfired spectacularly, particularly as she spent most of the time pretending to be a great world leader and stateswoman, hailing from a newly independent sovereign democracy. She and her government are already acting like a new state - embassies, diplomatic visits, official press releases, hobnobbing with international politicians - all on the British Government's .

This surely must beg the question - why are the British Government allowing this charade to continue? Is it a case of they don't care, or are they allowing the SNP to purposely overstate their case and exceed their limited remit? Like a parent allowing a child to boast and brag about their achievements, before quietly rebuking them in front of their peers to make an example of them?

Perhaps the SNP's hypocritical position on nuclear weapons and NATO membership has highlighted the dangers of encouraging such separatist movements to the US Administration... with our supposed closest ally alerted to the cancer of Scottish Nationalism growing in the British state, perhaps this is the opportunity to teach the SNP a lesson in international diplomacy, and the limits of their remit?

A strong SNP = A weak Labour party

The SNP are the Tories' Useful Idiots. There's zero real risk of Independence at the moment, but every SNP vote is a vote Labour have lost, so let them have their noisy, destructive, fun.

[irc]

TheJimi said:

I believe this stems from a legacy issue that predates nationalisation.

Edited by TheJimi on Thursday 19th May 11:44

Yes and no. There were problems before. But the unions seeing the new owners as a soft touch to blackmail for a whopping pay rise may also be a factor.

The union view may now be that the SNP are in charge. They have a magic money tree going by the millions they splurge. Gies some cash.


The hard truth may be that with more home working a permanent post pandemic feature demsnd will never return to what it was. The railways were already hugely subsidised. The only way forward is fewer staff and fewer services The unions obviously won't like it.

There may be trouble ahead.

Edited by irc on Thursday 19th May 12:43

[Hill92]

irc said:

Yes and no. There were problems before. But the unions seeing the new owners as a soft touch to blackmail for a whopping pay rise may also be a factor.

The union view may now be that the SNP are in charge. They have a magic money tree going by the millions they splurge. Gies some cash.


The hard truth may be that with more home working a permanent post pandemic feature demsnd will never return to what it was. The railways were already hugely subsidised. The only way forward is fewer staff and fewer services The unions obviously won't like it.

There may be trouble ahead.

Edited by irc on Thursday 19th May 12:43

It's the other way round.

ScotRail is now part of the public sector and therefore public sector pay policies apply. Not only do these policies offer low increases (relative to inflation) but they're biased against high earners, a category that many railway staff fall into (especially drivers).

The Scottish Government can't simply cave in to rail unions' demands as that'll cause issues elsewhere in the public sector (nurses, teachers, police etc).

So, far from exploiting a soft target, the railway unions are up against a more hardline employer now.

Remember the SNP were perfectly content to have next to no weekend trains for months last year. The newly announced timetables currently apply up to 10 June. In reality they're likely to be indefinite.

[SpeckledJim]

contango said:

With further restrictions on vehicle use and fewer trains running, this looks good favourable for the snp & greens net zero aspirations?
Surely thats a win?

Yes and no. Braziers are a CO2 disaster!

[Roderick Spode]

SpeckledJim said:

Roderick Spode said:

This surely must beg the question - why are the British Government allowing this charade to continue?

A strong SNP = A weak Labour party

The SNP are the Tories' Useful Idiots. There's zero real risk of Independence at the moment, but every SNP vote is a vote Labour have lost, so let them have their noisy, destructive, fun.

It's a fair comment, but for me it still poses the question of why on earth the British Government are allowing representatives of a devolved assembly to go abroad and pontificate as if they have a place on the international stage. Foreign affairs are a wholly reserved matter for the British Foreign Office, a government department that becomes incredibly sniffy if anyone should step on their toes or over reach their remit. The SNP are acting for all intents and purposes like a government with foreign policy aspirations, which is not within their competence. I'm very surprised the Foreign Office is allowing this to continue.

[Evercross]

Roderick Spode said:

but for me it still poses the question of why on earth the British Government are allowing representatives of a devolved assembly to go abroad and pontificate as if they have a place on the international stage. Foreign affairs are a wholly reserved matter for the British Foreign Office, a government department that becomes incredibly sniffy if anyone should step on their toes or over reach their remit. The SNP are acting for all intents and purposes like a government with foreign policy aspirations, which is not within their competence. I'm very surprised the Foreign Office is allowing this to continue.

Because the other countries see Sturgeon's jaunts for what they are - a jolly for an underling politician with no real say in international affairs. They will be civil to her and nod approvingly, but they know how international law works and they know what a devolved assembly is and are not taken in by her party's narrative the way some of the electorate are.

The media also know that the narrative is fake, but it pays them to play along as it encourages readership by convinced indynuts and scared unionists.

When push comes to shove, the US/EU/UN/NATO/IMF or whoever will dig out the rule book and put Sturgeon in her place if pushed. They already have done on several occasions.

On the flipside - look how pathetic Sturgeon has come across trying to reconcile her party's anti-nuke policy and desires to replicate the Nordic countries with the news this week that Sweden and Finland have applied to join NATO. Quite a conundrum for the wee cow, eh!

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 19th May 15:47

[Roderick Spode]

Evercross said:

Because the other countries see Sturgeon's jaunts for what they are - a jolly for an underling politician with no real say in international affairs. They will be civil to her and nod approvingly, but they know how international law works and they know what a devolved assembly is and are not taken in by her party's narrative the way some of the electorate are.

The media also know that the narrative is fake, but it pays them to play along as it encourages readership by convinced indynuts and scared unionists.

When push comes to shove, the US/EU/UN/NATO/IMF or whoever will dig out the rule book and put Sturgeon in her place if pushed. They already have done on several occasions.

On the flipside - look how pathetic Sturgeon has come across trying to reconcile her party's anti-nuke policy and desires to replicate the Nordic countries with the news this week that Sweden and Finland have applied to join NATO. Quite a conundrum for the wee cow, eh!

All perfectly true, however I find it most infuriating to see her wee fizzog hobnobbing it with various statespeople, and the media fawning all over her with unquestioning adoration. It also gives her cult followers a boost seeing "Oooor Niklaaa" stoating around in kitten heels in some glitzy press conference.

Perhaps it is all part of some much longer game played by the British Government, something akin to Icarus - let her think she is untouchable, spread those wings and fly higher and higher. At some point the wax will melt with sufficient media scrutiny, and she will come tumbling down. I can't wait for that day - her downfall will be rapid and spectacular.

[Janluke]

I've often been critical of the unionist parties reluctance to work together to beat the SNP so I'm delighted to see in my own council(South Lanarkshire) a Labour/Lib dem/Indie collation helped across the line but the Tory councillors voting in favour

[SpeckledJim]

Roderick Spode said:

SpeckledJim said:

Roderick Spode said:

This surely must beg the question - why are the British Government allowing this charade to continue?

A strong SNP = A weak Labour party

The SNP are the Tories' Useful Idiots. There's zero real risk of Independence at the moment, but every SNP vote is a vote Labour have lost, so let them have their noisy, destructive, fun.

It's a fair comment, but for me it still poses the question of why on earth the British Government are allowing representatives of a devolved assembly to go abroad and pontificate as if they have a place on the international stage. Foreign affairs are a wholly reserved matter for the British Foreign Office, a government department that becomes incredibly sniffy if anyone should step on their toes or over reach their remit. The SNP are acting for all intents and purposes like a government with foreign policy aspirations, which is not within their competence. I'm very surprised the Foreign Office is allowing this to continue.

Because the SNP supporters like to see St Nicola on Tour and as above, a strong SNP is a weak Labour Party.

I’d be interested to know how far the Tories go behind the scenes to invisibly and sneakily support the SNP.

“Let her do whatever the fk she wants, as long as she’s still popular with the McMuggles” is the gist, I suspect.

[Jenny Tailor]

Well - From being anti nukes .... the SNP in the last few hours seem to be pro-nukes ( for a wee while ).....

Anything and everything to prostitute their values just to be accepted on the global jolly circuit.

[alangla]

Janluke said:

I've often been critical of the unionist parties reluctance to work together to beat the SNP so I'm delighted to see in my own council(South Lanarkshire) a Labour/Lib dem/Indie collation helped across the line but the Tory councillors voting in favour

Wonder if that’s what happened in Stirling- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cen... - as much as I’m not a fan of the SNP, the third place party forming an administration does seem to be the opposite of what the electorate appeared to want.

[ninepoint2]

Rick_1138 said:

Loving the change of timetable with less than a weeks notice and no mention of weekend changes.

My trip to see friends for my 40th may be off if no late train back from Aberdeen, no update on weekend timetable changes yet either.

What a st show

It is indeed a stshow, apparently there is also a shortage of Taxi drivers in Glasgow which means they won't take bookings for late Friday night, just what the poor covid ravaged hospitality industry needs. It's like living in a third world country in Scotland at the moment

[rider73]

Shortage of taxis in Highlands too that can take wheelchairs, as hospital was told to use them because of shortage of hospital transport....

Blame the tooorrrrries though, they come up in the night and steal mobility taxis....

[Pastor Of Muppets]

alangla said:

Janluke said:

I've often been critical of the unionist parties reluctance to work together to beat the SNP so I'm delighted to see in my own council(South Lanarkshire) a Labour/Lib dem/Indie collation helped across the line but the Tory councillors voting in favour

Wonder if that’s what happened in Stirling- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cen... - as much as I’m not a fan of the SNP, the third place party forming an administration does seem to be the opposite of what the electorate appeared to want.

And another, Fife Council has voted to become a minority administration with Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative councillors voting together to agree a governance structure. Cllr David Ross has been voted Council Leader and Cllr David Alexander is Leader of the Opposition. Shutting out the SNP.
Looking forward to seeing the final picture with the local authorities, and hearing the SNats squealing about democracy (whilst supporting a party
where a different point of view is career ending).

[Rick_1138]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

alangla said:

Janluke said:

I've often been critical of the unionist parties reluctance to work together to beat the SNP so I'm delighted to see in my own council(South Lanarkshire) a Labour/Lib dem/Indie collation helped across the line but the Tory councillors voting in favour

Wonder if that’s what happened in Stirling- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cen... - as much as I’m not a fan of the SNP, the third place party forming an administration does seem to be the opposite of what the electorate appeared to want.

And another, Fife Council has voted to become a minority administration with Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative councillors voting together to agree a governance structure. Cllr David Ross has been voted Council Leader and Cllr David Alexander is Leader of the Opposition. Shutting out the SNP.
Looking forward to seeing the final picture with the local authorities, and hearing the SNats squealing about democracy (whilst supporting a party
where a different point of view is career ending).

I did smile at the National this morning in Tesco shelf decrying the collusion of union councillors to block snp in undemocratic collusion....what...you mean like the SNP and greens did in the ellection. Get in the bin

[irc]

East Dunbartonshire a Lab/Lib/Tory alliance.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

[Ridgemont]

irc said:

East Dunbartonshire a Lab/Lib/Tory alliance.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

This is good news. I wonder if it represents a change of tactics at a national level though?

[alangla]

Ridgemont said:

irc said:

East Dunbartonshire a Lab/Lib/Tory alliance.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

This is good news. I wonder if it represents a change of tactics at a national level though?

Erm... That article is 10 years old... published 10 May 2012.

[irc]

alangla said:

Erm... That article is 10 years old... published 10 May 2012.

My apologies.

After much googling I can not find any update as to whi is mow the ruling group here. It was anti SNP coalition before the election. Now? Who knows?

Local democracy in action.

[Roderick Spode]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

alangla said:

Janluke said:

I've often been critical of the unionist parties reluctance to work together to beat the SNP so I'm delighted to see in my own council(South Lanarkshire) a Labour/Lib dem/Indie collation helped across the line but the Tory councillors voting in favour

Wonder if that’s what happened in Stirling- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cen... - as much as I’m not a fan of the SNP, the third place party forming an administration does seem to be the opposite of what the electorate appeared to want.

And another, Fife Council has voted to become a minority administration with Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative councillors voting together to agree a governance structure. Cllr David Ross has been voted Council Leader and Cllr David Alexander is Leader of the Opposition. Shutting out the SNP.
Looking forward to seeing the final picture with the local authorities, and hearing the SNats squealing about democracy (whilst supporting a party
where a different point of view is career ending).

Fife Council made the announcement on their Facebook page, and thereafter followed hundreds of comments from incredibly salty Nationalists all bleating about democracy, and extremely vexed that Toaaarrreees would now form part of their council administration. Hilarious to see. Someone did point out that the SNP at Holyrood were a minority administration propped up by the unelected Greens, but apparently that scenario is "completely different". The mental gymnastics are breathtaking. Fife has traditionally been a left leaning electorate who voted Labour, but the area has become a hotbed for nationalism over the last 15 years. I remember when a Conservative local councillor was voted into Cowdenbeath last time out, there was uproar and disbelief - I mean, who voted Toaarree in Fife?! Turns out he is a very effective councillor, and was re-elected, despite a concerted and nasty campaign from the local SNP to unseat him.

Only a week ago the Nat Seps were crowing all over the various social media platforms that they had won the election, that there was a huge surge in support for another referendum, that they were unstoppable. The reality is that they had no overall control of any council apart from Dundee, and it was perfectly possible for coalitions of lesser parties to make agreements to form administrations, and shut the SNP out of power. That's how democracy works at local authority level, something the salty Nat Seps refuse to understand. All the pro-Union parties need to refuse to engage with the SNP at any level. Disappointed that Labour have chosen to work with them in Aberdeen.