Therese Coffey on removal of universal credit uplift
Discussion
Biggy Stardust said:
Benefits should be a safety net but too many think it should be a hammock.
Well there is a case for supporting people back into work, which is where universal credit comes in.That doesn't mean though that an increase that was always meant to be temporary, in the extraordinary circumstances of pandemic and lockdown, should become permanent.
The focus in this area, if there is any spare cash in the future, should be to reduce the taper rate on withdrawal of benefits. This is currently 63%, whereas 50% makes more logical sense (if affordable).
The point isn't simply whether the cut is justified at the same time as an increase in NI payments.
Thérèse Coffey accused of getting universal credit figures wrong
The point is the work and pensions secretary goes on TV and can't even get her numbers right.
Thérèse Coffey accused of getting universal credit figures wrong
The point is the work and pensions secretary goes on TV and can't even get her numbers right.
JagLover said:
Well there is a case for supporting people back into work, which is where universal credit comes in.
That doesn't mean though that an increase that was always meant to be temporary, in the extraordinary circumstances of pandemic and lockdown, should become permanent.
The focus in this area, if there is any spare cash in the future, should be to reduce the taper rate on withdrawal of benefits. This is currently 63%, whereas 50% makes more logical sense (if affordable).
I can agree with that.That doesn't mean though that an increase that was always meant to be temporary, in the extraordinary circumstances of pandemic and lockdown, should become permanent.
The focus in this area, if there is any spare cash in the future, should be to reduce the taper rate on withdrawal of benefits. This is currently 63%, whereas 50% makes more logical sense (if affordable).
I'm unsure what to do about those that feel minimum wage plus a load of benefits= genuine poverty and who scream whenever they are given a bit less than they want or are expecting.
ZedLeg said:
40% of universal credit claimants are working, companies use it to supplement wages.
My partner has been signed off and claiming UC since last Jan. It's going to be noticeable when she loses that money but we'll manage. Something a lot of people can't say.
Let's not forget that the people in work who are affected by this will be most affected by the NI rise. It's almost like the tories hate the working poor.
What’s the story there; is there a reason that you can’t support the both of you? There are an awful lot of jobs going at the moment.My partner has been signed off and claiming UC since last Jan. It's going to be noticeable when she loses that money but we'll manage. Something a lot of people can't say.
Let's not forget that the people in work who are affected by this will be most affected by the NI rise. It's almost like the tories hate the working poor.
Edited by ZedLeg on Monday 13th September 16:18
Edited by Northernboy on Monday 13th September 17:44
ZedLeg said:
Well it depends on whether you think that UC is sufficient for the purpose it's supposed to have in the first place.
What's changed over the last year where people needed the extra six months ago and not now?
Employment prospects. There’s nothing stopping anyone who’s well now from finding a job that pays enough to support a family.What's changed over the last year where people needed the extra six months ago and not now?
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
40% of universal credit claimants are working, companies use it to supplement wages.
My partner has been signed off and claiming UC since last Jan. It's going to be noticeable when she loses that money but we'll manage. Something a lot of people can't say.
Let's not forget that the people in work who are affected by this will be most affected by the NI rise. It's almost like the tories hate the working poor.
at having had extra?My partner has been signed off and claiming UC since last Jan. It's going to be noticeable when she loses that money but we'll manage. Something a lot of people can't say.
Let's not forget that the people in work who are affected by this will be most affected by the NI rise. It's almost like the tories hate the working poor.
Edited by ZedLeg on Monday 13th September 16:18
What’s the story there; is there a reason that you can’t support the both of you? There are an awful lot of jobs going at the moment.
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
Well it depends on whether you think that UC is sufficient for the purpose it's supposed to have in the first place.
What's changed over the last year where people needed the extra six months ago and not now?
Employment prospects. There’s nothing stopping anyone who’s well now from finding a job that pays enough to support a family.What's changed over the last year where people needed the extra six months ago and not now?
ZedLeg said:
Not that it’s any of your business but I don’t make enough to support both of us and she’s not well enough to work.
We’ll yes, but what’s stopping you earning enough to support both of you? I don’t understand why you’d choose to have your partner on benefits when you’re presumably able to get a better-paying job.Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
Not that it’s any of your business but I don’t make enough to support both of us and she’s not well enough to work.
We’ll yes, but what’s stopping you earning enough to support both of you? I don’t understand why you’d choose to have your partner on benefits when you’re presumably able to get a better-paying job.ZedLeg said:
Amazing that this take still comes up.
There has to be people to do the bottom rung jobs, shouldn't they earn a decent wage.
Same goes for benefits, UBI trials have shown that giving poor people enough money to cover their bills etc makes them more likely to go out and do something productive as they're not sick with stress.
Actually when Netherlands trailed Universal Benefit they found people less productive. Ultimately people earn more by having a skill that's in demand. A few extra hours only applies to jobs where you are paid by the hour which tend to be low skilled. Up skill earn more simple.There has to be people to do the bottom rung jobs, shouldn't they earn a decent wage.
Same goes for benefits, UBI trials have shown that giving poor people enough money to cover their bills etc makes them more likely to go out and do something productive as they're not sick with stress.
A500leroy said:
Because not everyone is as 'intelligent' as you Northernboy and want to work 26 hours a day 8 days a week,Im sure your the kinda chap that has a cleaner and gardener paying them a pittance and whinging they've not a good enough job even though basic manual work is beyond you. Some people decide that they work to live not live to work.
It's ok to make a choice to work to live and prioritise other things. But you can't expect society to subsidise that via enhanced benefit payment.Almost all people have capacity to learn new skills but each person must decide themselves what they want. UC was a temporary up lift due to COVID like furlough. It's over now so back to normal.
These threads always bring out the utter d
heads who have no idea how hard it can be for some people who are trying their hardest, there will always be people who take the piss out of benefits, but that is the minority! not everyone can be a company director, there are some very important jobs where the pay simply doesn't cover living costs and jobs with varying hours. Just getting an extra job or asking for extra hours can be impossible. People with low paid and low skilled jobs often get treated like crap by people in this county and and are seen as being some kind of underclass, its just not on
heads who have no idea how hard it can be for some people who are trying their hardest, there will always be people who take the piss out of benefits, but that is the minority! not everyone can be a company director, there are some very important jobs where the pay simply doesn't cover living costs and jobs with varying hours. Just getting an extra job or asking for extra hours can be impossible. People with low paid and low skilled jobs often get treated like crap by people in this county and and are seen as being some kind of underclass, its just not onGecko1978 said:
It's ok to make a choice to work to live and prioritise other things. But you can't expect society to subsidise that via enhanced benefit payment.
Almost all people have capacity to learn new skills but each person must decide themselves what they want. UC was a temporary up lift due to COVID like furlough. It's over now so back to normal.
I used to think very similarly but it isn't always the life choice it's made out to be.Almost all people have capacity to learn new skills but each person must decide themselves what they want. UC was a temporary up lift due to COVID like furlough. It's over now so back to normal.
Sometimes people have to look after family and sometimes people have circumstances that mean it isn't always as simple as just working 3 jobs for 20 hours a day.
I suspect most of the posters on this thread (myself included) are similar to Thérèse Coffey in that they probably haven't ever had to wonder where the next meal for them or their family is coming from.
Everyone says "just get a better job" but there's always going to be somebody at the bottom.
That's a reality for more people than I used to care to admit.
The other thing is that people say train or improve skills to get a better job. It’s not always as easy as some would like to think.
I spent years working mcjobs because I just couldn’t get on with company culture. I would apply and try but nothing ever moved for me.
I was lucky when I moved city and stumbled into a job with a great company and I’ve been building myself up for the last few years. If I hadn’t got this I’d probably still be behind a counter or on a warehouse floor.
I couldn’t imagine how hard it would be to do that if you had kids and stuff to look after too.
I spent years working mcjobs because I just couldn’t get on with company culture. I would apply and try but nothing ever moved for me.
I was lucky when I moved city and stumbled into a job with a great company and I’ve been building myself up for the last few years. If I hadn’t got this I’d probably still be behind a counter or on a warehouse floor.
I couldn’t imagine how hard it would be to do that if you had kids and stuff to look after too.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Gecko1978 said:
It's ok to make a choice to work to live and prioritise other things. But you can't expect society to subsidise that via enhanced benefit payment.
Almost all people have capacity to learn new skills but each person must decide themselves what they want. UC was a temporary up lift due to COVID like furlough. It's over now so back to normal.
I used to think very similarly but it isn't always the life choice it's made out to be.Almost all people have capacity to learn new skills but each person must decide themselves what they want. UC was a temporary up lift due to COVID like furlough. It's over now so back to normal.
Sometimes people have to look after family and sometimes people have circumstances that mean it isn't always as simple as just working 3 jobs for 20 hours a day.
I suspect most of the posters on this thread (myself included) are similar to Thérèse Coffey in that they probably haven't ever had to wonder where the next meal for them or their family is coming from.
Everyone says "just get a better job" but there's always going to be somebody at the bottom.
That's a reality for more people than I used to care to admit.
There is no 1 size fits all solution but the extra £20 a week was always temporary and people knew that. From what I gather the biggest factor in career stagnation statistically is having children outside of marriage or being a single parent. Circumstances mean what we end up with is not what we planned (partner dies etc) but for every case like that there are many more where planning and choices were poor. It's hard an unpleasant but it's also the truth. As a self employed person I am constantly thinking of next month Bill's, tax what can I do etc. Its just ingrained in my way of working and thinking. I could have a much more relaxed life but I chose a certain lifestyle just as most do.
Biggy Stardust said:
ZedLeg said:
I would say that there are jobs, I wouldn’t say there are an abundance of jobs you could support a family on without help from benefits.
Note the meme posted earlier about acquiring skills with higher payscales. Skilled & motivated people are in demand & always will be.That is all you can do is adapt and evolve.
Gecko1978 said:
I think the issue is we think about "a few extra hours" as a solution which won't be viable for many (if you have children for example). Which really means we have to make choices much earlier in life which is hard to do.
There is no 1 size fits all solution but the extra £20 a week was always temporary and people knew that. From what I gather the biggest factor in career stagnation statistically is having children outside of marriage or being a single parent. Circumstances mean what we end up with is not what we planned (partner dies etc) but for every case like that there are many more where planning and choices were poor. It's hard an unpleasant but it's also the truth. As a self employed person I am constantly thinking of next month Bill's, tax what can I do etc. Its just ingrained in my way of working and thinking. I could have a much more relaxed life but I chose a certain lifestyle just as most do.
Of course it's hard and unpleasant and there is no one size fits all solution but "just work more" and "learn a skill" isn't possible for everyone.There is no 1 size fits all solution but the extra £20 a week was always temporary and people knew that. From what I gather the biggest factor in career stagnation statistically is having children outside of marriage or being a single parent. Circumstances mean what we end up with is not what we planned (partner dies etc) but for every case like that there are many more where planning and choices were poor. It's hard an unpleasant but it's also the truth. As a self employed person I am constantly thinking of next month Bill's, tax what can I do etc. Its just ingrained in my way of working and thinking. I could have a much more relaxed life but I chose a certain lifestyle just as most do.
Take a trip around town or a supermarket or basically go on a tour of places with "minimum wage jobs you probably wouldn't want to do" and the reality is someone has to do them.
People want their lunchtime coffee or Amazon delivery or someone to serve them in the supermarket or at the click n collect.
Not everyone can simply up-skill and move on.
And temporary or not when you take money away from people and pile on a national insurance increase their reality is that they're going to be poorer and feel that.
For the work and pensions minister to not even know that it isn't as simple as "just doing a couple of extra hours" tells you all you need to know about how much of a f
k Coffey gives about those people.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff