Therese Coffey on removal of universal credit uplift

[konark]

swanseaboydan said:

Why don’t poor people start their own track and trace system or maybe manufacture and import Covid testing equipment ? Better still, club together and buy a hotel that they can rent out at an extortionate rate to the government for people returning from holidays ? Works for some . . .

Think you need the right contacts for that to work.

[Northernboy]

A500leroy said:

Because not everyone is as 'intelligent' as you Northernboy and want to work 26 hours a day 8 days a week,Im sure your the kinda chap that has a cleaner and gardener paying them a pittance and whinging they've not a good enough job even though basic manual work is beyond you. Some people decide that they work to live not live to work.

What a weird post. Yes, I’ve cleaners and gardeners, but they do a great job, and get a good rate of pay for it too.

You seem to be inventing things, and then getting angry about them, which is not really normal behaviour.

I just don’t understand anyone not choosing to support their partner if they are able to, and so needing them to rely on benefits rather than finding a job that earns enough for both of you.

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

I couldn’t imagine how hard it would be to do that if you had kids and stuff to look after too.

That’s why many people in higher-paying jobs choose to have children a bit later, concentrating on getting the career sorted out before starting a family.

You write as though it’s not just as hard for people in higher paying jobs, like they just drop into people’s laps, but that’s not how it works.

[Northernboy]

ZedLeg said:

The funniest thing is that if everyone did train to be at the level of all the PH execs and contractors they would start moaning about all these jumped up proles driving salaries down by saturating the market

Proles? You have some really weird ideas about who does what jobs.

Do you think people in banking for example all went to expensive schools or had parents who were doctors and lawyers?

And what do you mean by jumped-up? What’s your issue with people from a “normal” background working in the professions?

There has to be some background here that’s led to you having such a big chip on your shoulder.

[actionjack]

MonkeyMatt said:

These threads always bring out the utter dheads who have no idea how hard it can be for some people who are trying their hardest, there will always be people who take the piss out of benefits, but that is the minority! not everyone can be a company director, there are some very important jobs where the pay simply doesn't cover living costs and jobs with varying hours. Just getting an extra job or asking for extra hours can be impossible. People with low paid and low skilled jobs often get treated like crap by people in this county and and are seen as being some kind of underclass, its just not on

Well said...

[johnboy1975]

Escy said:

It's going back about 8 years but I spend a year on benefits, wife didn't have a job, we'd just had a baby (lost my job a month after she was born). I was earning 20k a year, we were renting which was about £650 a month. We were better off on benefits as they covered everything.

I found a job in my field a year later with a salary of £23,000. It's st money still (actually insulting considering you need a degree for it) but it's comfortably above the minimum wage stuff. I remember after the first month being less than £100 a month better off than I was on benefits for 37.5 hours of work. It's not hard to see why people feel trapped on them.

As for the temporary nature of the £20 uplift, fuel has gone up about 30p a litre since that was introduced, I had a email off my energy supplier last week saying my bill is going up £430 extra this year and i'm already paying £1200 a year. All these HGV bumper wages are being paid for with price increases at the shops. I bet lots of people affected by this are already feeling the pinch.

This goes to the heart of the problem more generally: Lack of incentive to get off benefits, £100 extra for 37.5hrs a week (x4, I assume you meant?)

And more specifically on the matter in hand, you also nail that in your last paragraph. Things have gone up in price. The £20/week was probably generous, but removing the full £20 is perhaps too harsh.

How about a tenner cut (because end of covid) with a promise to raise it by a tenner in next years budget? And if all that faffing with removing a tenner a week for 6 months doesn't really achieve all that much, why not just leave it as it is?

[ZedLeg]

Northernboy said:

ZedLeg said:

The funniest thing is that if everyone did train to be at the level of all the PH execs and contractors they would start moaning about all these jumped up proles driving salaries down by saturating the market

Proles? You have some really weird ideas about who does what jobs.

Do you think people in banking for example all went to expensive schools or had parents who were doctors and lawyers?

And what do you mean by jumped-up? What’s your issue with people from a “normal” background working in the professions?

There has to be some background here that’s led to you having such a big chip on your shoulder.

I was obviously using the dismissive language of the people that seem to think that everyone on benefits or minimum wage jobs are moochers and layabouts.

You seem to have a bit of a problem with me, care to explain why?

[Biggy Stardust]

ZedLeg said:

I was obviously using the dismissive language of the people that seem to think that everyone on benefits or minimum wage jobs are moochers and layabouts.

You seem to have a bit of a problem with me, care to explain why?

Not everyone but many.

You do seem to have a little chip about those who have had greater success,

[bennno]

Would be prime entertainment to see her in a live debate vs Dianne Abbot.

[JagLover]

bennno said:

Would be prime entertainment to see her in a live debate vs Dianne Abbot.

Or contesting the numbers round in Countdown together.

[V8covin]

This should show all governments it's not wise to give temporary increases because people have short memories and forget they were meant to be temporary.
And then there's the case of trying to buy votes with the triple lock pension rise guarantee,take that away will cost votes

[biggles330d]

johnboy1975 said:

This goes to the heart of the problem more generally: Lack of incentive to get off benefits, £100 extra for 37.5hrs a week (x4, I assume you meant?)

I get the economic argument isn't strong, but surely there is something in there about having a feeling of worth by getting up and going to do a job and spend time with colleagues? Sitting at home all day watch TV is just boring. Maybe I've just been lucky I've liked the jobs I've had and the people I've worked with?

[Fast and Spurious]

bhstewie said:

The point isn't simply whether the cut is justified at the same time as an increase in NI payments.

Thérèse Coffey accused of getting universal credit figures wrong

The point is the work and pensions secretary goes on TV and can't even get her numbers right.

Stop reading the Guardian pal, you won't get a sensible, balanced view there.

[ZedLeg]

Biggy Stardust said:

ZedLeg said:

I was obviously using the dismissive language of the people that seem to think that everyone on benefits or minimum wage jobs are moochers and layabouts.

You seem to have a bit of a problem with me, care to explain why?

Not everyone but many.

You do seem to have a little chip about those who have had greater success,

I don’t, I have an issue with people who use lazy stereotypes to denigrate those they see as beneath them.

[ZedLeg]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As mentioned earlier, around 40% of people claiming UC are in work. You probably know more but they’re too embarrassed to admit it because of the stereotype you’re perpetuating.

[Escy]

johnboy1975 said:

This goes to the heart of the problem more generally: Lack of incentive to get off benefits, £100 extra for 37.5hrs a week (x4, I assume you meant?)

£100 a month better off for it after tax and all the bills that were previously covered were paid. At that point my rent was £550. Wages haven't gone up since, rents have, council tax has, gas and electric has. I bet these days you'd be working for a loss on a 23k job and most people wouldn't be able to find one.

It was only worth it when my daughter was school age and my wife could work so we had 2 wages coming in. There was no point her working before as childcare costs are nearly the same as a minimum wage job. I don't feel pride working a job for some prat with a bad attitude who's paying peanuts. Also didn't feel shame going into the job centre.

The system needs tweaking.

[bitchstewie]

Fast and Spurious said:

bhstewie said:

The point isn't simply whether the cut is justified at the same time as an increase in NI payments.

Thérèse Coffey accused of getting universal credit figures wrong

The point is the work and pensions secretary goes on TV and can't even get her numbers right.

Stop reading the Guardian pal, you won't get a sensible, balanced view there.

It's been laid out by multiple media and it was on the news this morning that it isn't two hours.

The newspaper doesn't change the maths

[anonymous-user]

If people work more won’t that effect the amount of help they can get ?

Re paying lower paid people more , shirley that’s better all round ? Less benefits claimed , more tax paid , people feel better about themselves , plus they have more money to spend !?

[johnboy1975]

Escy said:

johnboy1975 said:

This goes to the heart of the problem more generally: Lack of incentive to get off benefits, £100 extra for 37.5hrs a week (x4, I assume you meant?)

£100 a month better off for it after tax and all the bills that were previously covered were paid. At that point my rent was £550. Wages haven't gone up since, rents have, council tax has, gas and electric has. I bet these days you'd be working for a loss on a 23k job and most people wouldn't be able to find one.

It was only worth it when my daughter was school age and my wife could work so we had 2 wages coming in. There was no point her working before as childcare costs are nearly the same as a minimum wage job. I don't feel pride working a job for some prat with a bad attitude who's paying peanuts. Also didn't feel shame going into the job centre.

The system needs tweaking.

Yes but you can't offer less to make the gap bigger. So you are left with a general 10% (say) pay rise for everyone, which would make the gap bigger. Which pushes prices up by (around) 10%. Thus meaning UC is worth less, so they "need" more.....

It's a vicious and never ending circle.

The world seems broken right now. Maybe just my perspective? But you cant do x without y happening. And if you don't do x, z will happen. Where y is something really bad, and z is something terrible. Covid, Brexit, Afghanistan, social care, refugees......the list goes on.

[LargeRed]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Are you having him followed ?
or are you following him ??