Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 3)

[Ahonen]

[quote=jsf]
Even modern motorsport and aircraft use imperial extensively./quote]

I might mention that to the guys from Manthey, Audi Sport and AMG this weekend. Should set off a small chortle.

[crankedup5]

don'tbesilly said:

Garvin said:

Vanden Saab said:

Unknown_User said:

Ooops.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58646017

I don't think this was part of Bozza's much vaunted oven ready deal.

I see the oven ready deal has become the remnants new big red bus. I am sure they were supposed to be the clever ones

Piha’s post is not inaccurate - an FTA with the US was definitely not part of Boris’ “oven ready deal” which just covered the WA with the EU. It is however difficult to understand the point being made - methinks it’s just the output of an upset and confused mind.

You would have thought Piha's month-long holiday would have resulted in a fresh approach to Brexit, because of course, everyone who voted to leave the EU did so because the UK would then be able to get a trade deal with the US.

UU runs away when he is called out, same old crap, keen to smudge others but less so when on receiving end.

[Unknown_User]

crankedup5 said:

don'tbesilly said:

Garvin said:

Vanden Saab said:

Unknown_User said:

Ooops.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58646017

I don't think this was part of Bozza's much vaunted oven ready deal.

I see the oven ready deal has become the remnants new big red bus. I am sure they were supposed to be the clever ones

Piha’s post is not inaccurate - an FTA with the US was definitely not part of Boris’ “oven ready deal” which just covered the WA with the EU. It is however difficult to understand the point being made - methinks it’s just the output of an upset and confused mind.

You would have thought Piha's month-long holiday would have resulted in a fresh approach to Brexit, because of course, everyone who voted to leave the EU did so because the UK would then be able to get a trade deal with the US.

UU runs away when he is called out, same old crap, keen to smudge others but less so when on receiving end.

Holiday? You'll have to explain that one.

[BOR]

Oooooooof !

The President and Supreme Ruler of the Free World said:

Biden also underlined the importance of ensuring peace in Northern Ireland is not jeopardised by post-Brexit tensions.

“I feel very strongly,” he said. “We spent an enormous amount of time and effort in the United States. It was a major partisan effort, and I would not like to see – nor would many of my Republican colleagues – a change in the Irish accord”.

Frosty must be seething. Talk about having the rug pulled from under your feet.

[sugerbear]

Garvin said:

Oilchange said:

But it didn’t include a US deal though.
Did it?

Of course it didn’t. He’s just rambling, now moving the goal posts, clutching at straws as an outlet for his anger.

Some people will never get over the fact that we have now left the EU never to return. They will go to their graves bitter and twisted with it continually gnawing at their very being. Couple that with the fact that Boris is going nowhere for many a year and it’s just too much to bear for some.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get on with our lives and make the best of it.

And some people choose to stick their head in the sand and pretend that things will never change. It took five years to go from no one caring about the EU (apart from a few swivel eyed loons on the right) to a referendum to leave.

[Unknown_User]

sugerbear said:

Garvin said:

Oilchange said:

But it didn’t include a US deal though.
Did it?

Of course it didn’t. He’s just rambling, now moving the goal posts, clutching at straws as an outlet for his anger.

Some people will never get over the fact that we have now left the EU never to return. They will go to their graves bitter and twisted with it continually gnawing at their very being. Couple that with the fact that Boris is going nowhere for many a year and it’s just too much to bear for some.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get on with our lives and make the best of it.

And some people choose to stick their head in the sand and pretend that things will never change. It took five years to go from no one caring about the EU (apart from a few swivel eyed loons on the right) to a referendum to leave.

Quite.

And when the Ultra partisan don't like the facts as presented by most news outlets they attack the poster. Front page news? Pah, attack the messenger, then insist their man is going nowhere for years..!!!

[Garvin]

sugerbear said:

Garvin said:

Oilchange said:

But it didn’t include a US deal though.
Did it?

Of course it didn’t. He’s just rambling, now moving the goal posts, clutching at straws as an outlet for his anger.

Some people will never get over the fact that we have now left the EU never to return. They will go to their graves bitter and twisted with it continually gnawing at their very being. Couple that with the fact that Boris is going nowhere for many a year and it’s just too much to bear for some.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get on with our lives and make the best of it.

And some people choose to stick their head in the sand and pretend that things will never change. It took five years to go from no one caring about the EU (apart from a few swivel eyed loons on the right) to a referendum to leave.

You are entirely correct - Remainers were trying to persuade everyone that staying in the EU would maintain some sort of status quo . . . . . absolutely laughable!

[barryrs]

Unknown_User said:

Quite.

And when the Ultra partisan don't like the facts as presented by most news outlets they attack the poster. Front page news? Pah, attack the messenger, then insist their man is going nowhere for years..!!!

I trust you are including yourself in that description?

[Unknown_User]

barryrs said:

Unknown_User said:

Quite.

And when the Ultra partisan don't like the facts as presented by most news outlets they attack the poster. Front page news? Pah, attack the messenger, then insist their man is going nowhere for years..!!!

I trust you are including yourself in that description?

Please feel free to point out where I slavishly defend or support any political entity.

[barryrs]

Unknown_User said:

barryrs said:

Unknown_User said:

Quite.

And when the Ultra partisan don't like the facts as presented by most news outlets they attack the poster. Front page news? Pah, attack the messenger, then insist their man is going nowhere for years..!!!

I trust you are including yourself in that description?

Please feel free to point out where I slavishly defend or support any political entity.

So you don’t think your posts on this topic are ultra partisan?

Good one

[sugerbear]

Garvin said:

sugerbear said:

Garvin said:

Oilchange said:

But it didn’t include a US deal though.
Did it?

Of course it didn’t. He’s just rambling, now moving the goal posts, clutching at straws as an outlet for his anger.

Some people will never get over the fact that we have now left the EU never to return. They will go to their graves bitter and twisted with it continually gnawing at their very being. Couple that with the fact that Boris is going nowhere for many a year and it’s just too much to bear for some.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get on with our lives and make the best of it.

And some people choose to stick their head in the sand and pretend that things will never change. It took five years to go from no one caring about the EU (apart from a few swivel eyed loons on the right) to a referendum to leave.

You are entirely correct - Remainers were trying to persuade everyone that staying in the EU would maintain some sort of status quo . . . . . absolutely laughable!

Err. remaining in the EU *would* have maintained the status quo.

things are only going to go one way with Brexit. And it won't favour the people that backed it and promoted it (i.e. conservative MP's). You should prepare yourself for the UK going back into the SM and CU.

[andymadmak]

sugerbear said:

Err. remaining in the EU *would* have maintained the status quo.

Define status quo? If you define it solely as membership of the EU then you are being somewhat disingenuous. If however you're trying to suggest that the EU was not evolving/moving towards becoming a federal state with tax raising powers, it's own army and such like then I'm afraid you've already been proved wrong

sugerbear said:

things are only going to go one way with Brexit.

From that we can assume that one way = badly. That's your opinion and you are of course fully entitled to hold it. Many people disagree with your assessment however.

sugerbear said:

And it won't favour the people that backed it and promoted it (i.e. conservative MP's). You should prepare yourself for the UK going back into the SM and CU.

The Brexit movement cut across party lines. Trying to paint it as a Conservative thing only makes you look rather silly.
My personal view is that I very much doubt that the UK will go back into the CU and SM in the next 20 years. I will qualify that statement by saying that in the unlikely event that it does, it would be on terms that are massively favourable to the UK and does not restrict UK from doing whatever Trade deals and making other arrangements as it sees fit. (That is not something that I see the EU offering any time soon)

[don'tbesilly]

Unknown_User said:

crankedup5 said:

don'tbesilly said:

Garvin said:

Vanden Saab said:

Unknown_User said:

Ooops.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58646017

I don't think this was part of Bozza's much vaunted oven ready deal.

I see the oven ready deal has become the remnants new big red bus. I am sure they were supposed to be the clever ones

Piha’s post is not inaccurate - an FTA with the US was definitely not part of Boris’ “oven ready deal” which just covered the WA with the EU. It is however difficult to understand the point being made - methinks it’s just the output of an upset and confused mind.

You would have thought Piha's month-long holiday would have resulted in a fresh approach to Brexit, because of course, everyone who voted to leave the EU did so because the UK would then be able to get a trade deal with the US.

UU runs away when he is called out, same old crap, keen to smudge others but less so when on receiving end.

Holiday? You'll have to explain that one.

Oh.My.Days.

Holiday in Sin City.

[sunbeam alpine]

Garvin said:

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get on with our lives and make the best of it.

Interesting use of language there. "Making the best of it" is an expression I associate with finding oneself in less-than-optimal circumstances, suggesting that the current UK position is not so good.

Shortage of truck drivers, shortage of factory workers, farm workers. Now a CO² shortage threatening food supplies. It's really not going well in the UK at the moment is it?

I agree that Covid is having a significant impact, and that we are experiencing the same energy challenges and truck driver shortages here in Europe. I also agree that low-priced labour from newer members of the EU has helped push wages down for both UK and EU workers in some segments.

There's been no noticeable effect in supermarket supplies over here, no mention of possible food shortages. Prices over here ex-farm are disastrous in some sectors and very good in others - mirroring the UK I suspect. I've checked news web sites in Belgium, Holland, France and Germany and I can't find any mention of the sort of problems which are being reported in the UK. I've restricted my web searches to publicly-funded news services as they have less need for doom and gloom stories and are (hopefully) more neutral. Interestingly, the current UK situation doesn't get a mention.

Just to be clear, I'm not a remainer in the sense of wanting to overturn the democratic choice made in 2016, nor do I have any wish to see the UK rejoin.

[Gecko1978]

BOR said:

Oooooooof !

The President and Supreme Ruler of the Free World said:

Biden also underlined the importance of ensuring peace in Northern Ireland is not jeopardised by post-Brexit tensions.

“I feel very strongly,” he said. “We spent an enormous amount of time and effort in the United States. It was a major partisan effort, and I would not like to see – nor would many of my Republican colleagues – a change in the Irish accord”.

Frosty must be seething. Talk about having the rug pulled from under your feet.

Thing is though is peace really an issue I dont think the IRA an the like are about to start a bombing campaign any time soon if potatoes from the south have to fill in some forms but people can move as they wish

[Unknown_User]

A great success of Bozza's "Oven ready" deal has emerged. By all accounts, Northern Ireland aren't facing the CO2 squeeze as the rest of the UK as Diddy Frosts Protocol thingy means NI source their CO2 from the single market. Who da thunk it...!!!

. #awkward

[SpeckledJim]

Macron gets the hump over a perceived (and actual) slight.

Gigantic prospective trade deal for 26 other countries (27 if you include the US) grinds to a complete halt.

The whole EU must be hostages to the pride and pique of France! Whether they want to or not.

It's only (other people's) money, after all.

[stongle]

sugerbear said:

Err. remaining in the EU *would* have maintained the status quo.

things are only going to go one way with Brexit. And it won't favour the people that backed it and promoted it (i.e. conservative MP's). You should prepare yourself for the UK going back into the SM and CU.

The only status quo it maintained was a political and governance structure. The economic effects, of which MOST people feel and vote about, were emergent properties of the politics. There is no way to maintain the economic status quo, when you require fiscal transfer and debt guarantees (political decisions).

The 2 things are quite separate, Covid helped make clear the fiscal transfer issue advancing its implementation by a decade or so; but its distorting the trade effects. You might claim that those who voted for Brexit are most affected by trade friction (certainly they were not beneficiaries of FoM in wage bargaining), BUT with the advancement of Fiscal transfer, they are ALSO disadvantaged (by very large amounts), as UK fiscal realignment is diverted to cover debt largesse by Italy, Spain, Greece, France etc who cannot control their own borrowing / costs.

What cannot ever be claimed, is that the effects of membership were a constant or status quo.

Many of the upsides / downsides; are actually little to do directly with Brexit but a whole host of multiple factors converging (like why despite Jamie Dimon - a remainers favourite - is opening a new bank in the UK).

Trade friction will be overcome in many ways, whether the govt actually make a success of the real 2016 question, is an entirely different matter. The answer to that will be how far left the tories can actually go on economic policy.

[DeltonaS]

An oven ready, built back better, global Britain, suppa duppa deal......

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-22...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-09...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/food-s...

[BOR]

SpeckledJim said:

Macron gets the hump over a perceived (and actual) slight.

Gigantic prospective trade deal for 26 other countries (27 if you include the US) grinds to a complete halt.

The whole EU must be hostages to the pride and pique of France! Whether they want to or not.

It's only (other people's) money, after all.

I'm more than happy to stick together with France and I hope that goes for the rest of the EU .

This time it's France, next time it could be Spain, Germany Italy etc.