Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Mortarboard said:
And yet, no problems there, yet supply chaos in the UK. Odd that 
Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
Choas? You have the numbers do you? Can you list each and every one? Carnet , CITES, CTC etc? Lets see the proof of this chaos? And a comparison between this year and last if you will (just to validate it)....Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
stongle said:
Mortarboard said:
And yet, no problems there, yet supply chaos in the UK. Odd that
Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
Choas? You have the numbers do you? Can you list each and every one? Carnet , CITES, CTC etc? Lets see the proof of this chaos? And a comparison between this year and last if you will (just to validate it)....Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
Can't quite make out what you're saying over the noise of your deflection.
M.
Mortarboard said:
Denying CO2 supply issues in the UK are we? Or are you saying Coke is lying about not having supply issues?
Can't quite make out what you're saying over the noise of your deflection.
https://www.britishsoftdrinks.com/Press-releases-/bsda-statement-on-co2-shortageCan't quite make out what you're saying over the noise of your deflection.
BSDA said:
Can supplies of CO2 be imported to cover the gap?
Relying on European supply is not feasible given the problems associated with Brexit and the fact that CO2 production on the continent is also disrupted. While the UK already imports CO2 in large quantities from plants in Norway and the Netherlands, the Norwegian plant is shortly due to close for up to two weeks for maintenance, and the Dutch plant is prioritising its customers in the EU.
"Customers in the EU" = not us. But, what do they know, so called "experts"?Relying on European supply is not feasible given the problems associated with Brexit and the fact that CO2 production on the continent is also disrupted. While the UK already imports CO2 in large quantities from plants in Norway and the Netherlands, the Norwegian plant is shortly due to close for up to two weeks for maintenance, and the Dutch plant is prioritising its customers in the EU.
Mortarboard said:
Denying CO2 supply issues in the UK are we? Or are you saying Coke is lying about not having supply issues?
Can't quite make out what you're saying over the noise of your deflection.
M.
Sorry, who is deflecting?????? Can't quite make out what you're saying over the noise of your deflection.
M.
stongle said:
Mortarboard said:
And yet, no problems there, yet supply chaos in the UK. Odd that
Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
Choas? You have the numbers do you? Can you list each and every one? Carnet , CITES, CTC etc? Lets see the proof of this chaos? And a comparison between this year and last if you will (just to validate it)....Brexit- deflection and excuse making matters.
M.
But you have no posited evidence.
If it is chaos, you can only lean on trade (fiscal issues the EC already proved Brexit team correct on), I invited you to post exactly the evidence reauired to do so - CITES, CTC and Carnet volumes....
It's only you deflecting now. So, lets hear where the chaos is?
The CO2 thing has nothing to do with Brexit. So, lets hear it them, Chaos, in numbers please?
stongle said:
So you said Brexit is Chaos.
But you have no posited evidence.
If it is chaos, you can only lean on trade (fiscal issues the EC already proved Brexit team correct on), I invited you to post exactly the evidence reauired to do so - CITES, CTC and Carnet volumes....
It's only you deflecting now. So, lets hear where the chaos is?
The CO2 thing has nothing to do with Brexit. So, lets hear it them, Chaos, in numbers please?
We were clearly discussing CO2, and comparing one comodity currently very much in the news, and it's availability in two different areas of the UK, with only the NIP being the variable.But you have no posited evidence.
If it is chaos, you can only lean on trade (fiscal issues the EC already proved Brexit team correct on), I invited you to post exactly the evidence reauired to do so - CITES, CTC and Carnet volumes....
It's only you deflecting now. So, lets hear where the chaos is?
The CO2 thing has nothing to do with Brexit. So, lets hear it them, Chaos, in numbers please?
And you say Brexit isn't the issue.
It's getting frothy in here. I'll open a window for you
M.
jsf said:
More winning for moving production to the UK in future then.
You mean, adding to the production that the UK already has? That's shut down and being quasi-bailed out by the taxpayer?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/co...
Odd strategy that. Hopefully taxes don't have to go up. Oh, wait.......
M.
jsf said:
More winning for moving production to the UK in future then.
Remind me why we've shut down our own plants again...? And why EU plants haven't?"production" isn't really the right word as it's just a by-product of other chemical processes. And it's unlikely to be a long term issue as there's mega investment in CCS which will 'produce' more CO2 than anyone knows what to do with. (Hence the 'storage' part of CCS)
Mortarboard said:
We were clearly discussing CO2, and comparing one comodity currently very much in the news, and it's availability in two different areas of the UK, with only the NIP being the variable.
And you say Brexit isn't the issue.
It's getting frothy in here. I'll open a window for you
M.
Well, unlike many posters where precision is a problem I don't have that issue. If you look back you clearly said supply chaos and brexit in the post I quoted. I didn't think you were as dim or a bullsAnd you say Brexit isn't the issue.
It's getting frothy in here. I'll open a window for you
M.
ter as a few of the Goldfish, Now I accept that we have a CO2 issuue, we obviously have Brexit issues; but the 2 are independent. Or are you going to suggest you didn't link the two (in the post I quoted).....
I don't mean to make you an object lesson (like some), but surely you can differentiate what's a Brexit issue, a Covid one and political expediency? The constant crediting Boris with Brexit (for an example), is like a Jim Davidson joke. Boring and repeated by the non-excepional...
Mortarboard said:
Vanden Saab said:
Unknown_User said:
Mortarboard said:
Vanden Saab said:
Unknown_User said:
A great success of Bozza's "Oven ready" deal has emerged. By all accounts, Northern Ireland aren't facing the CO2 squeeze as the rest of the UK as Diddy Frosts Protocol thingy means NI source their CO2 from the single market. Who da thunk it...!!!
. #awkward
What? you will have to explain that one me thinks.... #awkward
You seem to be suggesting that companies in NI can import CO2 from the EU while those in the rest of the UK cannot...because of the single market...
So it would appear. Brexiters will no doubt find some way of making this "not Brexits fault" too, I suppose
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-58652...
Perhaps Coke are just EU shills or something?
It's gas, so 'tis.
M.
As there’s no Carbon dioxide produced in Ireland and it all has to be imported they ( in the ROI ) are saying there are going to be significant supply problems in the whole of the EU not just Ireland …. Or the U.K.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-fo...
The Irish food and drink industry is bracing for a potential shortage of industrial carbon dioxide used for everything from putting fizz in soft drinks to animal slaughter.
The UK is already seeing shortages and price hikes and a leading supplier to the island of Ireland, Nippon Gas, said the same issues could spread elsewhere in Europe.
Food Drink Ireland, the Ibec group representing Irish producers, said it had “concerns” about supplies but hoped there would be no spillovers from the UK.
The island of Ireland has no local sources of carbon dioxide (CO2).
“There are concerns in the supply chain for food-grade CO2 due to supply issues in the UK and Northern Europe,” said FDI director Paul Kelly.
stongle said:
Well, unlike many posters where precision is a problem I don't have that issue. If you look back you clearly said supply chaos and brexit in the post I quoted. I didn't think you were as dim or a bullster as a few of the Goldfish,
Now I accept that we have a CO2 issuue, we obviously have Brexit issues; but the 2 are independent. Or are you going to suggest you didn't link the two (in the post I quoted).....
I don't mean to make you an object lesson (like some), but surely you can differentiate what's a Brexit issue, a Covid one and political expediency? The constant crediting Boris with Brexit (for an example), is like a Jim Davidson joke. Boring and repeated by the non-excepional...
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above). Note the difference.ter as a few of the Goldfish, Now I accept that we have a CO2 issuue, we obviously have Brexit issues; but the 2 are independent. Or are you going to suggest you didn't link the two (in the post I quoted).....
I don't mean to make you an object lesson (like some), but surely you can differentiate what's a Brexit issue, a Covid one and political expediency? The constant crediting Boris with Brexit (for an example), is like a Jim Davidson joke. Boring and repeated by the non-excepional...
Does NI have access to some super secret EU "stash" of CO2? Of course not. Is there some UK "ban" on EU CO2? Of course not.
So the supply sourcing opportunities are the same. The only difference is the NIP, negotiated as part of Brexit (by Boris as pure happenstance, I'll grant you - the NIP would have been there regardless of figurehead, it was an inevitability imo). Hence any issues in GB are rooted in Brexit.
Cranked will be along in a minute to point out it can be all fixed, just "pay more" - the solution to all supply constraints, apparently.
If half the energy used to deflect blame for all current UK issues from Brexit/Covid/HMG was used to find solutions, it'd all be over much sooner.
M.
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above). Note the difference.
Does NI have access to some super secret EU "stash" of CO2? Of course not. Is there some UK "ban" on EU CO2? Of course not.
So the supply sourcing opportunities are the same. The only difference is the NIP, negotiated as part of Brexit (by Boris as pure happenstance, I'll grant you - the NIP would have been there regardless of figurehead, it was an inevitability imo). Hence any issues in GB are rooted in Brexit.
Cranked will be along in a minute to point out it can be all fixed, just "pay more" - the solution to all supply constraints, apparently.
If half the energy used to deflect blame for all current UK issues from Brexit/Covid/HMG was used to find solutions, it'd all be over much sooner.
M.
But how much is actually Brexit "real' and Brexit "media"? Not to mention, how is team UK missing the gas price arbitrage?Does NI have access to some super secret EU "stash" of CO2? Of course not. Is there some UK "ban" on EU CO2? Of course not.
So the supply sourcing opportunities are the same. The only difference is the NIP, negotiated as part of Brexit (by Boris as pure happenstance, I'll grant you - the NIP would have been there regardless of figurehead, it was an inevitability imo). Hence any issues in GB are rooted in Brexit.
Cranked will be along in a minute to point out it can be all fixed, just "pay more" - the solution to all supply constraints, apparently.
If half the energy used to deflect blame for all current UK issues from Brexit/Covid/HMG was used to find solutions, it'd all be over much sooner.
M.
Brexit, might have created a division between the UK and EU - but its not creating the gas price issues.
What might be interesting, but perhaps the company in question used supply to leverage the UK govt. That's much more sticky, especially as Brexit depends entirely on companies dealing with change - not bending over UK plc...
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....M.
stongle said:
But how much is actually Brexit "real' and Brexit "media"? Not to mention, how is team UK missing the gas price arbitrage?
Brexit, might have created a division between the UK and EU - but its not creating the gas price issues.
What might be interesting, but perhaps the company in question used supply to leverage the UK govt. That's much more sticky, especially as Brexit depends entirely on companies dealing with change - not bending over UK plc...
Don't think you can blame "media" for a shortage of CO2. Think its a tangible substance.Brexit, might have created a division between the UK and EU - but its not creating the gas price issues.
What might be interesting, but perhaps the company in question used supply to leverage the UK govt. That's much more sticky, especially as Brexit depends entirely on companies dealing with change - not bending over UK plc...
As you mention gas price arbitage, in a related (directly) manner - what would the current environment be, had the UK remained in the EU energy controlled market?
But there's worse than CO2 to worry about.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58476545
Affects receiving waters usually (results in cloudy effluent) - but is also used in clarifying drinking water supply. Won't kill you, but can be coloured/cloudy.
But should chlorine (gas) or chloramines get similarly constrained then the UK public should be up in arms about it. Literally stops drinking water becoming deadly.
M.
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....Mortarboard said:
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....M.
Desperate stuff from you Mortar..
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....M.
Desperate stuff from you Mortar..
rustednut said:
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Tuna said:
Mortarboard said:
Then consider that on one side of the NIP "line" there are current supply issues, the other side there are future supply concerns (see Ed's post above).
Two geographically separate countries are experiencing different supply conditions? And you want to blame one thing and not another? Hmmm....M.
Desperate stuff from you Mortar..
ks a geographical issue. Pure trolling from the Brexit fan boys as per usual.No skin off my nose if you run out.
M.
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