Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 3)
Discussion
El stovey said:
Sway said:
"Name your price" was in relation to training suitable aircraft...
Loads of the old guard have cleared out for various reasons, one being as you say renegotiation of contracts in a very depressed (thanks to covid) market.
The key thing being seen is how quickly things are bouncing back, as soon as restrictions and hassles get reduced back to normal levels.
Your assessment is highly optimistic though especially when you look at who is actually recruiting rather than looking at holding pools etc. Loads of the old guard have cleared out for various reasons, one being as you say renegotiation of contracts in a very depressed (thanks to covid) market.
The key thing being seen is how quickly things are bouncing back, as soon as restrictions and hassles get reduced back to normal levels.
I’m involved in pilot training and recruitment in my airline and that’s what I see and what people in other airlines I know doing the same roles tell me also.
Some airlines that got rid of too many pilots at the start of the pandemic are refilling those positions but it’s with type rated pilots with experience not mpl schemes..
Is easyjet actually recruiting at the moment?
eJ are picking back up from MPL cadets they dropped as far as I'm aware currently. I'm less familiar with the European type rated/experienced pilot market - the US side is insane with the classic feeding frenzy flowing down from the majors.
aturnick54 said:
Ivan stewart said:
No I think you will find it’s you remnants that don’t like facts !!
It must be quite upsetting for quivering little snowflakes and gravy train riders alike that all the great remain predictions were wrong, sorry bout that .
You mean all the queues going on in Kent, are they all project fear still? It must be quite upsetting for quivering little snowflakes and gravy train riders alike that all the great remain predictions were wrong, sorry bout that .
Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
SpeckledJim said:
Come on Eeyore, aren't you just the tiniest bit encouraged by the prospect of better access to markets of 7bn people 'for free', at the cost of worse access to 400m people, that we used to have to pay for?
Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
We already had access to 7Bn and any future access is certainly not for free.Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
We have left one police/trading arrangement with certain protectionist rules to allow us a slightly greater freedom to agree terms with other police/trading areas with their own set of protections rules.
Free trade is an illusion.
SpeckledJim said:
Come on Eeyore, aren't you just the tiniest bit encouraged by the prospect of better access to markets of 7bn people 'for free', at the cost of worse access to 400m people, that we used to have to pay for?
Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
Better access to the Australian market, I'm sure their farmers are well chuffed. Ours on the other hand...Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Do you honestly think that the UK has the upper hand when negotiating trade agreements with other nations when compared to the EU? The EU is a much bigger market, they have much more leverage during negotiations than we do.
aturnick54 said:
Better access to the Australian market, I'm sure their farmers are well chuffed. Ours on the other hand...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Do you honestly think that the UK has the upper hand when negotiating trade agreements with other nations when compared to the EU? The EU is a much bigger market, they have much more leverage during negotiations than we do.
True, we see the EU asserting that leverage in all their highly successful trade deals.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Do you honestly think that the UK has the upper hand when negotiating trade agreements with other nations when compared to the EU? The EU is a much bigger market, they have much more leverage during negotiations than we do.
Oh, wait a minute!!!
aturnick54 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Come on Eeyore, aren't you just the tiniest bit encouraged by the prospect of better access to markets of 7bn people 'for free', at the cost of worse access to 400m people, that we used to have to pay for?
Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
Better access to the Australian market, I'm sure their farmers are well chuffed. Ours on the other hand...Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Do you honestly think that the UK has the upper hand when negotiating trade agreements with other nations when compared to the EU? The EU is a much bigger market, they have much more leverage during negotiations than we do.
Whilst Australian farmers can use growth hormones and feed additives for their cattle - they can't sell that beef here. Beef shipped here must meet our product standards, which those products don't conform to.
So, what the domestic industry is actually complaining about is not being able to compete (despite really rather good grass growing capability) with farmers operating to the same standards but who have to ship their goods half way around the world, with all the customs processes that remain supporters have been complaining about adding frictional costs.
And that's with a fifteen year head start on the potential challenge.
The British farming industry is f
king depressing (and I'm not laying the blame solely on our farmers for that).aturnick54 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Come on Eeyore, aren't you just the tiniest bit encouraged by the prospect of better access to markets of 7bn people 'for free', at the cost of worse access to 400m people, that we used to have to pay for?
Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
Better access to the Australian market, I'm sure their farmers are well chuffed. Ours on the other hand...Not just the weeniest flicker of optimism about that?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Do you honestly think that the UK has the upper hand when negotiating trade agreements with other nations when compared to the EU? The EU is a much bigger market, they have much more leverage during negotiations than we do.
So by your own assertion, as a result of our size we'd do rather well, wouldn't we?
Or is bigger always better except sometimes?
hyphen said:
No surprise. Been saying for years. It just proves you can't Google your business knowledge or get it from a fortune cookie. This isnt even unintended consequence. I'm curious why the latest loon thinks the m20 queues today ate due to Brexit, the rozzers were clear it's an accident. Nothing like a qood lie to justify remain. Even the Guradian is running a story that this weeks queues was volume NOT Brexit related. The Guardian no less. Perhaps alt is the guy who thinks 20mins of doc checks adds 20hours to the Paris drive (that's some funky taco maths to get to that or very extreme edge cases)...
It really is about time some posters grow up and work out exactly how the world works.
SpeckledJim said:
I disagree that bigger is better, if it means you have 27 back-seat drivers all giving direction, but we're the 5th/6th largest economy on Earth.
So by your own assertion, as a result of our size we'd do rather well, wouldn't we?
Or is bigger always better except sometimes?
Is our economy larger than the entire EU combined then?So by your own assertion, as a result of our size we'd do rather well, wouldn't we?
Or is bigger always better except sometimes?
Sway said:
Domestic industry in lobbying shocker.
Whilst Australian farmers can use growth hormones and feed additives for their cattle - they can't sell that beef here. Beef shipped here must meet our product standards, which those products don't conform to.
So, what the domestic industry is actually complaining about is not being able to compete (despite really rather good grass growing capability) with farmers operating to the same standards but who have to ship their goods half way around the world, with all the customs processes that remain supporters have been complaining about adding frictional costs.
And that's with a fifteen year head start on the potential challenge.
The British farming industry is fking depressing (and I'm not laying the blame solely on our farmers for that).
And how long do you expect our product standards to match or exceed that of the EU?Whilst Australian farmers can use growth hormones and feed additives for their cattle - they can't sell that beef here. Beef shipped here must meet our product standards, which those products don't conform to.
So, what the domestic industry is actually complaining about is not being able to compete (despite really rather good grass growing capability) with farmers operating to the same standards but who have to ship their goods half way around the world, with all the customs processes that remain supporters have been complaining about adding frictional costs.
And that's with a fifteen year head start on the potential challenge.
The British farming industry is f
king depressing (and I'm not laying the blame solely on our farmers for that).And if they can't sell their product here, then what is the point in the trade agreement that has been negotiated if trade doesn't have a significant benefit for either party?
aturnick54 said:
Sway said:
Domestic industry in lobbying shocker.
Whilst Australian farmers can use growth hormones and feed additives for their cattle - they can't sell that beef here. Beef shipped here must meet our product standards, which those products don't conform to.
So, what the domestic industry is actually complaining about is not being able to compete (despite really rather good grass growing capability) with farmers operating to the same standards but who have to ship their goods half way around the world, with all the customs processes that remain supporters have been complaining about adding frictional costs.
And that's with a fifteen year head start on the potential challenge.
The British farming industry is fking depressing (and I'm not laying the blame solely on our farmers for that).
And how long do you expect our product standards to match or exceed that of the EU?Whilst Australian farmers can use growth hormones and feed additives for their cattle - they can't sell that beef here. Beef shipped here must meet our product standards, which those products don't conform to.
So, what the domestic industry is actually complaining about is not being able to compete (despite really rather good grass growing capability) with farmers operating to the same standards but who have to ship their goods half way around the world, with all the customs processes that remain supporters have been complaining about adding frictional costs.
And that's with a fifteen year head start on the potential challenge.
The British farming industry is f
king depressing (and I'm not laying the blame solely on our farmers for that).And if they can't sell their product here, then what is the point in the trade agreement that has been negotiated if trade doesn't have a significant benefit for either party?
The key thing, is that product standards apply to all products within the UK. So, if they change to reduce production costs, then that applies to domestic producers too. I'd bet a fair chunk of cash to charity that growth hormones, etc. will not be permitted in any increased amount compared to today in five years time.
Just because Aussie farmers can do something banned here, doesn't mean they all do. Just as some farmers here choose to produce organically, there are those in Australia who's beef isn't raised on adulterated grain feed or pumped full of growth hormone. Indeed, you can buy that beef today in the UK...
It's better than the majority of domestic produce for low and slow barbecuing. An Aussie packer brisket is not a cheap thing, it's premium.
aturnick54 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Is our economy larger than the entire EU combined then?Can you find any literature anywhere, except maybe the EU's own website, that reckons the EU is really good at doing trade deals? What do the Americans reckon? The Canadians?
What's easier:
A: for you and Mrs Turnick to decide where you're going on holiday?
or
B: for you, Mrs Turnick, and everyone from your class at school to make the same decision? Everyone has to agree, or no holiday and grumpy Turnicks.
Sway said:
As long as we choose them to. One thing I would like to get away from that came in under the Single Market is the notion of 'maximum' standards where a product cannot be better than x because some regional producers a thousand miles away can't match it.
The key thing, is that product standards apply to all products within the UK. So, if they change to reduce production costs, then that applies to domestic producers too. I'd bet a fair chunk of cash to charity that growth hormones, etc. will not be permitted in any increased amount compared to today in five years time.
Just because Aussie farmers can do something banned here, doesn't mean they all do. Just as some farmers here choose to produce organically, there are those in Australia who's beef isn't raised on adulterated grain feed or pumped full of growth hormone. Indeed, you can buy that beef today in the UK...
It's better than the majority of domestic produce for low and slow barbecuing. An Aussie packer brisket is not a cheap thing, it's premium.
Which single market maximum standard do you want the UK to override and improve on?The key thing, is that product standards apply to all products within the UK. So, if they change to reduce production costs, then that applies to domestic producers too. I'd bet a fair chunk of cash to charity that growth hormones, etc. will not be permitted in any increased amount compared to today in five years time.
Just because Aussie farmers can do something banned here, doesn't mean they all do. Just as some farmers here choose to produce organically, there are those in Australia who's beef isn't raised on adulterated grain feed or pumped full of growth hormone. Indeed, you can buy that beef today in the UK...
It's better than the majority of domestic produce for low and slow barbecuing. An Aussie packer brisket is not a cheap thing, it's premium.
The Australians will likely produce in the most cost effective way, which I'm sure is to their decreased standards and selling to their own market rather than increased costs producing to UK standards to have to ship it across the world.
aturnick54 said:
Sway said:
As long as we choose them to. One thing I would like to get away from that came in under the Single Market is the notion of 'maximum' standards where a product cannot be better than x because some regional producers a thousand miles away can't match it.
The key thing, is that product standards apply to all products within the UK. So, if they change to reduce production costs, then that applies to domestic producers too. I'd bet a fair chunk of cash to charity that growth hormones, etc. will not be permitted in any increased amount compared to today in five years time.
Just because Aussie farmers can do something banned here, doesn't mean they all do. Just as some farmers here choose to produce organically, there are those in Australia who's beef isn't raised on adulterated grain feed or pumped full of growth hormone. Indeed, you can buy that beef today in the UK...
It's better than the majority of domestic produce for low and slow barbecuing. An Aussie packer brisket is not a cheap thing, it's premium.
Which single market maximum standard do you want the UK to override and improve on?The key thing, is that product standards apply to all products within the UK. So, if they change to reduce production costs, then that applies to domestic producers too. I'd bet a fair chunk of cash to charity that growth hormones, etc. will not be permitted in any increased amount compared to today in five years time.
Just because Aussie farmers can do something banned here, doesn't mean they all do. Just as some farmers here choose to produce organically, there are those in Australia who's beef isn't raised on adulterated grain feed or pumped full of growth hormone. Indeed, you can buy that beef today in the UK...
It's better than the majority of domestic produce for low and slow barbecuing. An Aussie packer brisket is not a cheap thing, it's premium.
The Australians will likely produce in the most cost effective way, which I'm sure is to their decreased standards and selling to their own market rather than increased costs producing to UK standards to have to ship it across the world.
If that's what you think the Aussie farmers will do, then why were you moaning about the risks to British farmers?
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