BP & Esso having fuel supply issues
Discussion
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I assume it is like the 99p thing. As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
When v-power went over £1.50 a litre I cut down on driving quite a bit.
Donbot said:
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I assume it is like the 99p thing. As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
When v-power went over £1.50 a litre I cut down on driving quite a bit.
I'd imagine there is a fairly sizeable demographic of people like me.
CraigyMc said:
I can't speak for others but it doesn't affect how I use my cars at all.
I'd imagine there is a fairly sizeable demographic of people like me.
It'll be interesting to see if it materialises (hopefully not!). Though the last spike was short, so it would be difficult to compare with sustained high prices. I'd imagine there is a fairly sizeable demographic of people like me.
Vanden Saab said:
less than 4 weeks since this all started and there is now no shortage of fuel at the pumps... what happened to the lack of drivers leading to shortages?
And I see the media have moved on, rather like a cat back-flicking a few leaves over a dump its just taken on the lawn.oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I take it, given what I bolded, that you are not arguing people will use their car the same amount. So logically the higher the price, the lower the usage? As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I would argue that 1.50 would see an acceleration in people altering their behaviour because people are poor at maths and also think logarithmically not linearly (ask a child to put "3" between 1 and 9 on a number line and they put it halfway). As 1.50 is an easy number to calculate with (for old people it will be "good grief that's nearly £7 a gallon) we'll see people doing sums like "50 litre tank * 1.50 = £75 to fill my car"! Whereas 1.43 per litre has them going "mumble mumble um expensive ain't it"
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
You assume it would be tiny. I'm saying that it appears otherwise.As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
This sort of thing isn't rational. Having something priced at £999 isn't rational - £999 is consequentially no different to £1,000. But it's routinely done because we dumb humans make a large distinction between £1,000 and £999. Much larger than between £999 and £998. For similarly irrational reasons, £1.50 has proven to be a significant price point for petrol. These things aren't linear. Each additional pence doesn't make the same difference. It's not logical, but an increase from £1.49 to £1.50 makes more difference to behaviour than £1.48 to £1.49.
Biggy Stardust said:
Vanden Saab said:
less than 4 weeks since this all started and there is now no shortage of fuel at the pumps... what happened to the lack of drivers leading to shortages?
I'm sure all the posters going on about a structural supply issue will be along to answer you shortly.
Vanden Saab said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Vanden Saab said:
less than 4 weeks since this all started and there is now no shortage of fuel at the pumps... what happened to the lack of drivers leading to shortages?
I'm sure all the posters going on about a structural supply issue will be along to answer you shortly.Flooble said:
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I take it, given what I bolded, that you are not arguing people will use their car the same amount. So logically the higher the price, the lower the usage? As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I would argue that 1.50 would see an acceleration in people altering their behaviour because people are poor at maths and also think logarithmically not linearly (ask a child to put "3" between 1 and 9 on a number line and they put it halfway). As 1.50 is an easy number to calculate with (for old people it will be "good grief that's nearly £7 a gallon) we'll see people doing sums like "50 litre tank * 1.50 = £75 to fill my car"! Whereas 1.43 per litre has them going "mumble mumble um expensive ain't it"
Flooble said:
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I take it, given what I bolded, that you are not arguing people will use their car the same amount. So logically the higher the price, the lower the usage? As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I would argue that 1.50 would see an acceleration in people altering their behaviour because people are poor at maths and also think logarithmically not linearly (ask a child to put "3" between 1 and 9 on a number line and they put it halfway). As 1.50 is an easy number to calculate with (for old people it will be "good grief that's nearly £7 a gallon) we'll see people doing sums like "50 litre tank * 1.50 = £75 to fill my car"! Whereas 1.43 per litre has them going "mumble mumble um expensive ain't it"
23.7 said:
Flooble said:
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I take it, given what I bolded, that you are not arguing people will use their car the same amount. So logically the higher the price, the lower the usage? As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I would argue that 1.50 would see an acceleration in people altering their behaviour because people are poor at maths and also think logarithmically not linearly (ask a child to put "3" between 1 and 9 on a number line and they put it halfway). As 1.50 is an easy number to calculate with (for old people it will be "good grief that's nearly £7 a gallon) we'll see people doing sums like "50 litre tank * 1.50 = £75 to fill my car"! Whereas 1.43 per litre has them going "mumble mumble um expensive ain't it"
It's not actually all that expensive.
Garvin said:
23.7 said:
I remember the good ol 99ppl days.
I remember the good ol 99ppg days!CraigyMc said:
23.7 said:
Flooble said:
oyster said:
Why would car usage drop off after prices hit £1.50 a litre? There might be some small psychological element, but that would be tiny. Any increase in fuel prices will change behaviour - whether it's a switch to EV, switch to smaller car, drive slower, use car less etc.
As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I take it, given what I bolded, that you are not arguing people will use their car the same amount. So logically the higher the price, the lower the usage? As to the fuel duty piece, whilst there is undoubtedly a laffer curve factor, I think it's more to avoid the political fallout from an increase.
I would argue that 1.50 would see an acceleration in people altering their behaviour because people are poor at maths and also think logarithmically not linearly (ask a child to put "3" between 1 and 9 on a number line and they put it halfway). As 1.50 is an easy number to calculate with (for old people it will be "good grief that's nearly £7 a gallon) we'll see people doing sums like "50 litre tank * 1.50 = £75 to fill my car"! Whereas 1.43 per litre has them going "mumble mumble um expensive ain't it"
It's not actually all that expensive.
If we use average earnings instead.... In 2002 the average UK full time salary was £20332 so with petrol at 72p you could buy 28239 litres. In 2021 the average full time salary is £31461 and petrol £1.39 so you can buy 22632 litres so in essence fuel has increased in real terms by around 20% in the timeframe you highlight.
B'stard Child said:
Garvin said:
23.7 said:
I remember the good ol 99ppl days.
I remember the good ol 99ppg days!F6C said:
You assume it would be tiny. I'm saying that it appears otherwise.
This sort of thing isn't rational. Having something priced at £999 isn't rational - £999 is consequentially no different to £1,000. But it's routinely done because we dumb humans make a large distinction between £1,000 and £999. Much larger than between £999 and £998. For similarly irrational reasons, £1.50 has proven to be a significant price point for petrol. These things aren't linear. Each additional pence doesn't make the same difference. It's not logical, but an increase from £1.49 to £1.50 makes more difference to behaviour than £1.48 to £1.49.
Actually its a lot more than this, a good link here takes you through the significance of what you describe, plus the impact of odd numbers (the number7!) http://changingminds.org/disciplines/marketing/pri...This sort of thing isn't rational. Having something priced at £999 isn't rational - £999 is consequentially no different to £1,000. But it's routinely done because we dumb humans make a large distinction between £1,000 and £999. Much larger than between £999 and £998. For similarly irrational reasons, £1.50 has proven to be a significant price point for petrol. These things aren't linear. Each additional pence doesn't make the same difference. It's not logical, but an increase from £1.49 to £1.50 makes more difference to behaviour than £1.48 to £1.49.
Apparently it all started many moons ago by putting it at .99 meant tellers had to open the tills to give change, and prevented them from pocketing the cash. Could be a myth but makes sense.
When I started driving in 92 I think it was about 43p a litre and I could fill the tank of my Mk3 Escort for £20.
My current car is a 1.5 litre Diesel and can easily do 60 MPG+ on a run. Although I certainly don't want to pay it, even if fuel doubled in cost it would still be the equivalent of driving a 30 MPG car today.
I think any car that does 25 MPG and under is going to be pretty much worthless at ten years old if fuel gets much more expensive.
My current car is a 1.5 litre Diesel and can easily do 60 MPG+ on a run. Although I certainly don't want to pay it, even if fuel doubled in cost it would still be the equivalent of driving a 30 MPG car today.
I think any car that does 25 MPG and under is going to be pretty much worthless at ten years old if fuel gets much more expensive.
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