"Get off your Pelotons and back to the office"
Discussion
hairykrishna said:
I've decided that these various people who complain about people working at home are people who are awful at working at home themselves. Because they're not productive at home they've decided nobody else is either so everyone has to go back to the office. That or they have interests in commercial property and are absolutely terrified by the idea that people need less offices now.
That's nonsense, there are many benefits to many businesses of f2f interactionspaximus said:
Well time will tell but as certain back office functions in the NHS are already done in India, why do you think business owners will not cut costs now they have proved, if it is to be believed, that location no longer matters?
No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
The first people the businesses who haven't already outsourced to India will outsource to India will be the manager who didn't outsource to India!No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
simonw67 said:
hairykrishna said:
I've decided that these various people who complain about people working at home are people who are awful at working at home themselves. Because they're not productive at home they've decided nobody else is either so everyone has to go back to the office. That or they have interests in commercial property and are absolutely terrified by the idea that people need less offices now.
That's nonsense, there are many benefits to many businesses of f2f interactionspaximus said:
Well time will tell but as certain back office functions in the NHS are already done in India, why do you think business owners will not cut costs now they have proved, if it is to be believed, that location no longer matters?
No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
Outsourcing to India is usually quite expensive, and the service received is almost always much, much worse than what you had before. It rarely works well.No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
jdw100 said:
Had to google peloton.
Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
Plus the ongoing £40 monthly sub to use it - I.e the point of the Peloton service. Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
devnull said:
jdw100 said:
Had to google peloton.
Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
Plus the ongoing £40 monthly sub to use it - I.e the point of the Peloton service. Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
You're shocked, I know.
From where I'm sat the DVLA delays are causing a major headache.
It's all very well the Government writing to HGV drivers to encourage them back into the industry, but one of the problems is that the DVLA can't process the paperwork quick enough to get some people on the road.
For example I have a guy who has a 7.5t entitlement, he hasn't needed it for years so we've had to put him through five full days of CPC training. But the training records can't be uploaded because the guy in question has had to apply for a photo card licence (he still only had a paper one).
There is/was around a three month delay on the DVLA processing photo card licences, so this guy is currently sat here with all of the necessary qualifications to drive a 7.5t truck, but the DVLA have told him via email he can't go out onto the road until his licence is processed.
This has been going on since early August time and there is still no light at the end of the tunnel.
It's all very well the Government writing to HGV drivers to encourage them back into the industry, but one of the problems is that the DVLA can't process the paperwork quick enough to get some people on the road.
For example I have a guy who has a 7.5t entitlement, he hasn't needed it for years so we've had to put him through five full days of CPC training. But the training records can't be uploaded because the guy in question has had to apply for a photo card licence (he still only had a paper one).
There is/was around a three month delay on the DVLA processing photo card licences, so this guy is currently sat here with all of the necessary qualifications to drive a 7.5t truck, but the DVLA have told him via email he can't go out onto the road until his licence is processed.
This has been going on since early August time and there is still no light at the end of the tunnel.
jdw100 said:
Had to google peloton.
Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
People on the average wage don’t buy Peletons. In the same way they don’t buy Bentleys. Stationary exercise bike.
Start from about £1,500, up to £2,000 or so.
Average UK take-home pay is about £600 a week.
Two weeks to one months take home pay for the average worker then.
ATG said:
Being able to punch unimaginative colleagues who fail to recognise opportunities to improve productivity is one of the few benefits of "f2f' I've noticed. The majority of the supposed benefits I've heard being trotted out are an illusion.
Perhaps for your business. Building relationships for new staff/existing colleagues. Staff development. More casual conversations, collaboration. Clarifications after the meeting (this shouldn't happen but with packed agendas things often get clarified afterwards) when people didn't get the chance. Large meetings usually benefit from body language signals and faster paced conversation as do weekly 'whiteboard' team meetings. Personally, not sitting listening to audio for meetings or staring at a screen all day is nice too.Scrump said:
DVLA
A couple of weeks ago we had an old boy charge onto our drive and into the flower bed behind, stopped from hitting the house only by the flower bed stone edging. He then, refusing to get out of the car... Got cross with us for not being the hotel he was looking for.He started to reverse out, nearly hit the neighbours house, then my wife's car, then my car and the gate post. Presumably quite deaf as zero clutch control.
After he finally made it onto the road, he ramped it up the opposite kerb on the way out.
We tried to call the DVLA. Every single number was closed, because covid...
simonw67 said:
Perhaps for your business. Building relationships for new staff/existing colleagues. Staff development. More casual conversations, collaboration. Clarifications after the meeting (this shouldn't happen but with packed agendas things often get clarified afterwards) when people didn't get the chance. Large meetings usually benefit from body language signals and faster paced conversation as do weekly 'whiteboard' team meetings. Personally, not sitting listening to audio for meetings or staring at a screen all day is nice too.
Sounds horrid and managerial.I am back in office. Productivity way down on what it was WFH. Constant disturbances from colleagues not collaborative innovation.
Huge carbon footprint from a big half-empty office. Horrid expensive commute on filthy trains.
Feels distinctly last century.
spaximus said:
Well time will tell but as certain back office functions in the NHS are already done in India, why do you think business owners will not cut costs now they have proved, if it is to be believed, that location no longer matters?
No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
Great point. Because before covid and work from home started never once has an office been closed down and moved overseas....No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
I'd say 50/50 between office and home is a good compromise, same as the unis and colleges. No need to be traveling 5 days a week but at the same time there will be benefits to heading to the office or campus for some face to face interaction.
Edited by sbarclay62 on Wednesday 6th October 06:47
If people go back to the office at least I wont be give the the excuse "I am working from home and don't have access to a printer" or "I am working from home and don't have access to our paper files, can you email me a copy" or "We are all working from home and nobody is opening the mail so can you email me a copy of what you have posted to me".
These from UK banks and within the last few months!
These from UK banks and within the last few months!
simonw67 said:
Perhaps for your business. Building relationships for new staff/existing colleagues. Staff development. More casual conversations, collaboration. Clarifications after the meeting (this shouldn't happen but with packed agendas things often get clarified afterwards) when people didn't get the chance. Large meetings usually benefit from body language signals and faster paced conversation as do weekly 'whiteboard' team meetings. Personally, not sitting listening to audio for meetings or staring at a screen all day is nice too.
I see. Do you by any chance spend more time in meetings than you do actually doing stuff? 
t before. Covid has just given another reason/excuse for them to be sspaximus said:
Electro1980 said:
spaximus said:
Those who are not in the CS who advocate WFH will see as wages rise in the UK their jobs are moved overseas to cheaper places.
Every single time WFH is discussed this comes up. No, they won’t.No expensive offices in the UK, not as many employment rules to contend with, less union control, why would they not?
The same argument was used when the police said that employing PCO and highways officers would free up "real police" to do other work. They simply cut the number of "real police" as it was cheaper to do so.
When something like this happens the consequences that follow are always obvious but ignored.
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