Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

[Kawasicki]

durbster said:

Dr Roy Spencer is an Australian Bush fire expert now. Blimey that guy is versatile!

We can definitely trust his blog over the people conducting actual research and collecting actual data in actual Australia. No matter the topic, he's always on the money.

Ignore the data. Attack the man.

[kerplunk]

Kawasicki said:

durbster said:

Dr Roy Spencer is an Australian Bush fire expert now. Blimey that guy is versatile!

We can definitely trust his blog over the people conducting actual research and collecting actual data in actual Australia. No matter the topic, he's always on the money.

Ignore the data. Attack the man.

But that's your guiding principle you said - assume bad faith?

Anyway..

https://moyhu.blogspot.com/2020/01/a-trap-with-bus...

Edited by kerplunk on Friday 20th May 17:03

[durbster]

Kawasicki said:

durbster said:

Dr Roy Spencer is an Australian Bush fire expert now. Blimey that guy is versatile!

We can definitely trust his blog over the people conducting actual research and collecting actual data in actual Australia. No matter the topic, he's always on the money.

Ignore the data. Attack the man.

Amazing logic. Getting my information from the source of the data - validated by other sources with relevant expertise in Australian bushfires - is "ignoring the data"

Can you explain how the data on Australian bush fires after it's been filtered by an American meteorologist blogger (who often provides material for climate change denial groups) is more reliable than the people who collate and study the data?

[Randy Winkman]

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:

turbobloke said:

BBC? Perfect.

When the Australian Institute of Criminology analysed bushfires (Bushfire Arson Bulletin No. 51) on a state/territory basis, with national coverage, fire data showed that, on average across the country 13% of bushfires were recorded as started deliberately and another 37% were recorded as suspicious. 50% in total for the two categories. Manmade fits, but not as advertised.

Edited for spag.

Edited by turbobloke on Friday 20th May 09:17

Plus the authorities prohibited controlled burns out of season. I believe similar has happened in the USA?

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

Are you saying that humidity is unaffected by climate change? Or that plants only die because of low humidity and not because of high temperature?

[durbster]

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

That's right, temperature has no effect on dryness. That's why tumble driers famously don't have heaters.

[robinessex]

durbster said:

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

That's right, temperature has no effect on dryness. That's why tumble driers famously don't have heaters.

You've obviously learned nothing here, have you. I have a house in the Philippines. From March to May the Philippines experiences very hot summers. The country's average temperature can range from 25 degrees Celsius to 32 degrees Celsius (78-90° Fahrenheit), with average annual humidity around 77 percent. I can tell you from experience, that it is not a dry heat. My step daughter lives in Sweden. In February, despite temps around -20C, humidity can be 80%.

[hairykrishna]

Relative humidity.

[anonymous-user]

Poor old rob

[dickymint]

hairykrishna said:

Relative humidity.

Yep RH decreases when temperature rises

[kerplunk]

robinessex said:

durbster said:

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

That's right, temperature has no effect on dryness. That's why tumble driers famously don't have heaters.

You've obviously learned nothing here, have you. I have a house in the Philippines. From March to May the Philippines experiences very hot summers. The country's average temperature can range from 25 degrees Celsius to 32 degrees Celsius (78-90 Fahrenheit), with average annual humidity around 77 percent. I can tell you from experience, that it is not a dry heat. My step daughter lives in Sweden. In February, despite temps around -20C, humidity can be 80%.

The way I see it relative humidity is a function of moisture content and temperature - if the moisture content is the same and temperature increases, RH decreases, and as RH decreases that increases the drying of the fuel (dead wood/litter). I guess you could get to a point where the fuel reaches an 'oven dry' level and there is no more moisture to 'suck' out of it and thus increasing temperature makes no further difference but that would be a function of moisture content and not some magic temperature level like +40. So long as there's still moisture content in the fuel, increasing temps will make a difference to the drying of the fuel and it's propensity to burn.

Edited by kerplunk on Saturday 21st May 11:44

[dickymint]

El stovey said:

Poor old rob

And your contribution is........just a plain old attack!!

[hairykrishna]

dickymint said:

hairykrishna said:

Relative humidity.

Yep RH decreases when temperature rises

I feel an understanding of what relative humidity actually means might help this conversation along. Perhaps you and robinessex could Google it, read and do your best to understand?

[anonymous-user]

dickymint said:

El stovey said:

Poor old rob

And your contribution is........just a plain old attack!!

Total hypocrisy.

All you do is try and have a go at my posts. It’s funny but a bit sad.

I’m sorry that your idol has turned out to be a false one but maybe don’t be so easily led and try to get your own world view and you won’t end up being brainwashed all the time.

For starters get your climate science facts from reliable scientific sources NOT like you did by asking Turbobloke.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 21st May 12:05

[robinessex]

kerplunk said:

robinessex said:

durbster said:

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

That's right, temperature has no effect on dryness. That's why tumble driers famously don't have heaters.

You've obviously learned nothing here, have you. I have a house in the Philippines. From March to May the Philippines experiences very hot summers. The country's average temperature can range from 25 degrees Celsius to 32 degrees Celsius (78-90 Fahrenheit), with average annual humidity around 77 percent. I can tell you from experience, that it is not a dry heat. My step daughter lives in Sweden. In February, despite temps around -20C, humidity can be 80%.

The way I see it relative humidity is a function of moisture content and temperature - if the moisture content is the same and temperature increases, RH decreases, and as RH decreases that increases the drying of the fuel (dead wood/litter). I guess you could get to a point where the fuel reaches an 'oven dry' level and there is no more moisture to 'suck' out of it and thus increasing temperature makes no further difference but that would be a function of moisture content and not some magic temperature level like +40. So long as there's still moisture content in the fuel, increasing temps will make a difference to the drying of the fuel and it's propensity to burn.

Edited by kerplunk on Saturday 21st May 11:44

Irrelevant and wrong anyway. Timber has to be heated to circa 250 C to ignite. Consequently, it's complete for bks to claim a 'hotter than the normal temperature' on planet Earth anywhere causes timber to ignite.

[dickymint]

hairykrishna said:

dickymint said:

hairykrishna said:

Relative humidity.

Yep RH decreases when temperature rises

I feel an understanding of what relative humidity actually means might help this conversation along. Perhaps you and robinessex could Google it, read and do your best to understand?

I work in the HVAC industry. I also keep bees - my hives have Temperature and Humidity sensors in them that I monitor constantly (as in every 15 minutes direct to my phone and PC) ............




I think I have "an understanding". Maybe you should Google 'Dew point'

......waits for the snide remarks from the dynamic duo! But yours are welcome Hairy.

Edited by dickymint on Saturday 21st May 12:32

[hairykrishna]

Perhaps you should explain to robinessex why his 80% humidity in Sweden vs 70 odd percent in the Philippines doesn't mean quite what he thinks it means then.

[kerplunk]

robinessex said:

kerplunk said:

robinessex said:

durbster said:

robinessex said:

Randy Winkman said:

Is the concern about bushfires all about how they start? Isn't the main concern about how dry the land is and how far they spread?

Nope. Once you get into +40 temperatures, hotter isn't any worse. Anyway, dryness is humidity, not temperature.

That's right, temperature has no effect on dryness. That's why tumble driers famously don't have heaters.

You've obviously learned nothing here, have you. I have a house in the Philippines. From March to May the Philippines experiences very hot summers. The country's average temperature can range from 25 degrees Celsius to 32 degrees Celsius (78-90 Fahrenheit), with average annual humidity around 77 percent. I can tell you from experience, that it is not a dry heat. My step daughter lives in Sweden. In February, despite temps around -20C, humidity can be 80%.

The way I see it relative humidity is a function of moisture content and temperature - if the moisture content is the same and temperature increases, RH decreases, and as RH decreases that increases the drying of the fuel (dead wood/litter). I guess you could get to a point where the fuel reaches an 'oven dry' level and there is no more moisture to 'suck' out of it and thus increasing temperature makes no further difference but that would be a function of moisture content and not some magic temperature level like +40. So long as there's still moisture content in the fuel, increasing temps will make a difference to the drying of the fuel and it's propensity to burn.

Edited by kerplunk on Saturday 21st May 11:44

Irrelevant and wrong anyway. Timber has to be heated to circa 250 C to ignite. Consequently, it's complete for bks to claim a 'hotter than the normal temperature' on planet Earth anywhere causes timber to ignite.

Irrelevent and wrong - but you don't say how, and then introduce a factor irrelevent my post.

methinks you're struggling

[hairykrishna]

Even by the standards of this thread this is an idiotic argument. Hotter, dryer weather drys stuff out. It's then more likely to catch fire, all other things being equal.

Is that controversial?

[robinessex]

Ever heard of the 'steaming jungle'? Hot but bloody wet/humid.

[dickymint]

hairykrishna said:

Perhaps you should explain to robinessex why his 80% humidity in Sweden vs 70 odd percent in the Philippines doesn't mean quite what he thinks it means then.

Maybe people should look at the point he is actually making (his post above) instead of constantly trying to trip him up purely belittle him.