Ghislaine Maxwell trial

[ChevronB19]

austinsmirk said:

ChevronB19 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

austinsmirk said:

Look at giuffre though. If she had been coerced, trapped raped, that’s horrific. Yet it’s multiple times, multiple places, New York, London, is Virgin Islands , over a long time line. I question her not being able to escape after the first alleged time.

Professionally I’ve dealt with victims of Asian grooming gangs. That’s a whole another ball game when you’ve dirt poor kids from horrific backgrounds and the only time ever, someone shows them money and possibly a better life, is the rapist of them. They had no life, no prospect of escape from the horror and tragedy of their lives.

Right / wrong I still question how after the first incident, no break was made.

It's not unusual for damaged people to stay in abusive relationships. How many times do we hear stories of women staying with abusive husbands/partners for years and years before finally escaping?

This.

Completely true. 30 some times I believe before the break truly happens. Harder for those older, in relationships with children and financially dependent on the abuser. I used to run a service to aid mainly Pakistani women from such situations: brought into the Uk on arranged marriages, never learn English, never let out of the house, no circle of friends, family shame etc. Horrific.

I think the original query (and certainly my reply) was based on the predication of ‘well she could’ve done something about it given her position and the pattern of alleged offending’. You’re quite right about dirt poor kids, but more than once in your post you imply that she could’ve done something about it, aka victim blaming. A victim is a victim, no matter what their background.

[pquinn]

austinsmirk said:

Look at giuffre though. If she had been coerced, trapped raped, that’s horrific. Yet it’s multiple times, multiple places, New York, London, is Virgin Islands , over a long time line. I question her not being able to escape after the first alleged time.

Professionally I’ve dealt with victims of Asian grooming gangs. That’s a whole another ball game when you’ve dirt poor kids from horrific backgrounds and the only time ever, someone shows them money and possibly a better life, is the rapist of them. They had no life, no prospect of escape from the horror and tragedy of their lives.

Right / wrong I still question how after the first incident, no break was made.

Didn't it turn out that some of the (many) statements she made detailing times/places/events were just made up? There's been a lot of court actions and she's said a lot of different things.

Seem to remember that formed part of Andy's legal manoeuvres.

[pquinn]

The pilot's evidence was interesting but I hope they aren't relying on pointing at Kevin Spacey as an example of someone getting a jet ride to play with the girls like they seem to imply with the others.

[Welshbeef]

pquinn said:

The pilot's evidence was interesting but I hope they aren't relying on pointing at Kevin Spacey as an example of someone getting a jet ride to play with the girls like they seem to imply with the others.

Pilot didn’t see any under age girls
Pilot didn’t see any sexual behaviour
Pilot didn’t see any sexual acts with underage girls or boys.

(Possibly as he was flying the plane for some of the time)

[dvs_dave]

Welshbeef said:

pquinn said:

The pilot's evidence was interesting but I hope they aren't relying on pointing at Kevin Spacey as an example of someone getting a jet ride to play with the girls like they seem to imply with the others.

Pilot didn’t see any under age girls
Pilot didn’t see any sexual behaviour
Pilot didn’t see any sexual acts with underage girls or boys.

(Possibly as he was flying the plane for some of the time)

Seemed like a pretty pointless testimony with nothing incriminating at all. Epstein’s window cleaner probably saw more!

[Byker28i]

Jasandjules said:

Kessler said:

No much coverage of this trial compared to Rittenhouse.
Guess the media is struggling to come up with a racist angle.

I wonder if the owners of the media are concerned about what may come out?

Its federal court though so no cameras allowed.

[Byker28i]

paulguitar said:

ChevronB19 said:

Someone in my local Facebook group claiming the omicron variant has been made up specifically to divert attention from the trial.

Now that’s expert level tinfoil!

He's posting here as well:

Beati Dogu said:

Meanwhile, the Jussie Smollett trial has also started, three years after the event, and a new BS covid variant is launched.

Oh it's getting blamed for lots of things
Ronnie Jackson, trumps ex doctor says the Dems created the new varient...
This from the doctor who claimed trump was 239lbs, and 6foot 3 inches, putting just a pound under obesity... whilst also claiming he had excellent genetics and could live to 200
https://twitter.com/RonnyJacksonTX/status/14646974...

[Byker28i]

dvs_dave said:

Welshbeef said:

pquinn said:

The pilot's evidence was interesting but I hope they aren't relying on pointing at Kevin Spacey as an example of someone getting a jet ride to play with the girls like they seem to imply with the others.

Pilot didn’t see any under age girls
Pilot didn’t see any sexual behaviour
Pilot didn’t see any sexual acts with underage girls or boys.

(Possibly as he was flying the plane for some of the time)

Seemed like a pretty pointless testimony with nothing incriminating at all. Epstein’s window cleaner probably saw more!

The pilots hardly going to incriminate himself whilst piloting The Lolita Express. What he is there for is to detail the amount of flights and who, like he's already detailed 26 flights Clinton took (with secret service present), the flights with Andrew, Kevin Spacey etc

[Stigproducts]

I listened to a podcast, probably a couple of years ago, called "Truth and Lies" regarding Epstein. Some woman, last name Farmer, explained how Epstein gave her a job and somewhere to live and paid for her education. At one point he tried it on with her (she was over 18 at the time), she said no, he left. That was it... That was her side of the story, no rebuttal, that was the amazing "abuse" I had been led to believe was the center of the story. I will still waiting for the juicy bit when they wrapped up the season.

At one point the woman explained about how after all this terrible exploitation was over, she got her sister a job with him and she was worried about her because Epstein might try and hold her hand too, but she struggled to, because she was on an exchange trip in Italy for a semester THAT HE PAID FOR. He paid for the trip and she went even though he was a massive pedo and stuff and she still took it and got her sister a job and the OMG moment was she couldn't warn her sister about him. I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

So that's the poster girl?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-and-li...


So she is clearly a money grabbing lying media we IMO. That's not to say some genuine victims who have some standards and haven't already sold out to the press won't appear at this trial. I await the evidence with interest, but prior to this point other than this Farmer woman, all I have seen are prostitutes who consented to an exchange of services in return for money/travel/gifts and are still trying to milk it for every penny.

[Murph7355]

Byker28i said:

The pilots hardly going to incriminate himself whilst piloting The Lolita Express. What he is there for is to detail the amount of flights and who, like he's already detailed 26 flights Clinton took (with secret service present), the flights with Andrew, Kevin Spacey etc

That and painting the life of absolute privilege these people have/had.... Not directly applicable to the case but will dampen any feelings of empathy towards the defendent, if there were any.

Edited by Murph7355 on Wednesday 1st December 09:50

[Welshbeef]

dvs_dave said:

Welshbeef said:

pquinn said:

The pilot's evidence was interesting but I hope they aren't relying on pointing at Kevin Spacey as an example of someone getting a jet ride to play with the girls like they seem to imply with the others.

Pilot didn’t see any under age girls
Pilot didn’t see any sexual behaviour
Pilot didn’t see any sexual acts with underage girls or boys.

(Possibly as he was flying the plane for some of the time)

Seemed like a pretty pointless testimony with nothing incriminating at all. Epstein’s window cleaner probably saw more!

Yes - but this was a prosecution witness….

Clearly on his testimony alone it should be defendant 1 prosecution nill.

[Byker28i]

Welshbeef said:

Yes - but this was a prosecution witness….

Clearly on his testimony alone it should be defendant 1 prosecution nill.

Nope, as above it just sets part of the story as to the number of lights, the people on it, Maxwells social set etc

[Ian Geary]

Byker28i said:

Welshbeef said:

Yes - but this was a prosecution witness….

Clearly on his testimony alone it should be defendant 1 prosecution nill.

Nope, as above it just sets part of the story as to the number of lights, the people on it, Maxwells social set etc

So is she on trial for sex trafficking? Or being Uber rich?

[Digga]

Ian Geary said:

Byker28i said:

Welshbeef said:

Yes - but this was a prosecution witness….

Clearly on his testimony alone it should be defendant 1 prosecution nill.

Nope, as above it just sets part of the story as to the number of lights, the people on it, Maxwells social set etc

So is she on trial for sex trafficking? Or being Uber rich?

ISWYM because I have great fear and distaste of 'the public' taking against people because of their financial situation, impecunious or loaded.

[Electro1980]

Stigproducts said:

I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

WTAF? He admitted child prostitution. He admitted two counts as part of a plea deal to drop the others for an early guilty plea. He was a man. They were children. He was a very wealthy and powerful man.

You are defending a convicted pedophile from a crime he has admitted too.

Edited by Electro1980 on Wednesday 1st December 08:42

[Type R Tom]

Electro1980 said:

Stigproducts said:

I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

WTAF? He admitted child prostitution. He admitted two counts as part of a plea deal to drop the others for an early guilty plea. He was a man. They were children. He was a very wealthy and powerful man.

You are defending a convicted pedophile.

I think your selective quoting there completely missed the reset of the post, which in this case refers to an 18 year old he employed.

[Byker28i]

Electro1980 said:

Stigproducts said:

I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

WTAF? He admitted child prostitution. He admitted two counts as part of a plea deal to drop the others for an early guilty plea. He was a man. They were children. He was a very wealthy and powerful man.

You are defending a convicted pedophile from a crime he has admitted too.

Edited by Electro1980 on Wednesday 1st December 08:42

Epstein pleaded guilty on a plea deal in 2008 to a felony charge of solicitation of prostitution involving a minor, and was sentenced to 18 months in prison; serving 13 months before being granted work release, where he commuted to an office outside the jail six days a week.
He also a registered sex offender.

The details of that plea deal were originally kept secret, but when revealed showed he had protection even then
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jeffrey-epste...

[Welshbeef]

Stigproducts said:

I listened to a podcast, probably a couple of years ago, called "Truth and Lies" regarding Epstein. Some woman, last name Farmer, explained how Epstein gave her a job and somewhere to live and paid for her education. At one point he tried it on with her (she was over 18 at the time), she said no, he left. That was it... That was her side of the story, no rebuttal, that was the amazing "abuse" I had been led to believe was the center of the story. I will still waiting for the juicy bit when they wrapped up the season.

At one point the woman explained about how after all this terrible exploitation was over, she got her sister a job with him and she was worried about her because Epstein might try and hold her hand too, but she struggled to, because she was on an exchange trip in Italy for a semester THAT HE PAID FOR. He paid for the trip and she went even though he was a massive pedo and stuff and she still took it and got her sister a job and the OMG moment was she couldn't warn her sister about him. I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

So that's the poster girl?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-and-li...


So she is clearly a money grabbing lying media we IMO. That's not to say some genuine victims who have some standards and haven't already sold out to the press won't appear at this trial. I await the evidence with interest, but prior to this point other than this Farmer woman, all I have seen are prostitutes who consented to an exchange of services in return for money/travel/gifts and are still trying to milk it for every penny.

So many victims of abuse and prolonged abuse can feel at the time it isn’t abuse. Their brains normalise the horror of it all.
I don’t understand why the victim you point out introduced her sister to also become a victim -

Why then wait so long to come forward? So many reasons
Humiliation
Fear
Some fear their families would disown them (irrationally)
Boxed it away and don’t want to open that box up.
Fear that their now life would be impacted so much. Possibly it could tear their family apart their partners and children.
Reality that rape/abuse cases are nearly always without witnesses meaning it’s he said she said / more so with no evidence of the crime.
Fear on going on the stand telling the world their story


I don’t doubt there are in some instances porkie pies - and those who do this should be prosecuted with names made public as such devious behaviour does then take away from genuine victims.

[GT3Manthey]

Welshbeef said:

Pilot didn’t see any under age girls
Pilot didn’t see any sexual behaviour
Pilot didn’t see any sexual acts with underage girls or boys.

(Possibly as he was flying the plane for some of the time)

Pilot confirms he flew Prince Andrew & Virginia Robert’s but has he said he flew them at the same time ?

[RB Will]

Stigproducts said:

I listened to a podcast, probably a couple of years ago, called "Truth and Lies" regarding Epstein. Some woman, last name Farmer, explained how Epstein gave her a job and somewhere to live and paid for her education. At one point he tried it on with her (she was over 18 at the time), she said no, he left. That was it... That was her side of the story, no rebuttal, that was the amazing "abuse" I had been led to believe was the center of the story. I will still waiting for the juicy bit when they wrapped up the season.

At one point the woman explained about how after all this terrible exploitation was over, she got her sister a job with him and she was worried about her because Epstein might try and hold her hand too, but she struggled to, because she was on an exchange trip in Italy for a semester THAT HE PAID FOR. He paid for the trip and she went even though he was a massive pedo and stuff and she still took it and got her sister a job and the OMG moment was she couldn't warn her sister about him. I genuinely felt at the end that the real story was that a sad horny deluded old man had been exploited by a couple of cock teases.

So that's the poster girl?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-and-li...


So she is clearly a money grabbing lying media we IMO. That's not to say some genuine victims who have some standards and haven't already sold out to the press won't appear at this trial. I await the evidence with interest, but prior to this point other than this Farmer woman, all I have seen are prostitutes who consented to an exchange of services in return for money/travel/gifts and are still trying to milk it for every penny.

I’ve done no looking into this case other than watching a documentary on Netflix a few years back. Featured a few of his victims and my lasting memory is they were like the Farmer woman you talk about, she probably was featured as the bit about roping in a sister sounds familiar.

But obviously there must have been some dodgy st going on if he has pleaded guilty for various charges.