Russia/Ukraine/USA crisis.

[Wacky Racer]

[TheJimi]

J4CKO said:

TheJimi said:

julian987R said:

TheJimi said:

Anyone else getting a bit uncomfortable at the alienation of Russia, and the ongoing international pile-in?

Surely the last thing you want to do to someone like Putin is make him feel like he has nothing to lose?

Gotta stand up to a bully. Come on man where’s your b@lls

Yes, thanks for that searing riposte.

I'm all for standing up to bullies, but not all bullies are equal, and in this case, I think alienating Putin and Russia, as is currently happening, while deserved and just, is also a dangerous game to play.

I'm not against it, but I'm uncomfortable with corning a headbanger with a fktonne of nukes at his disposal.

We are all very uncomfortable with it, but cant really just do nothing to support Ukraine, pretend its not happening and further embolden him, what's next ? It needs dealing with and to be honest I think so far its been a solid and sensible response.

fk me, where did I say we should do nothing?!

[Register1]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

hyphen said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

The issue here is Putin may now see it as a war against everyone who's supplying equipment and intel etc to Ukraine?

Russia know that the USA is co-coordinating everything behind the scenes.

That's exactly my point though - he may just order attacks on other countries, although I sincerely hope not. If he does, I suspect the might of most of the world would be on his case, save perhaps N. Korea and perhaps China.

China not going anywhere near Putin, while he is in Ukraine.
China has too much economy worldwide to lose.

[HM-2]

Register1 said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

hyphen said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

The issue here is Putin may now see it as a war against everyone who's supplying equipment and intel etc to Ukraine?

Russia know that the USA is co-coordinating everything behind the scenes.

That's exactly my point though - he may just order attacks on other countries, although I sincerely hope not. If he does, I suspect the might of most of the world would be on his case, save perhaps N. Korea and perhaps China.

China not going anywhere near Putin, while he is in Ukraine.

China will gladly fk Russia six ways to Sunday if they feel they can get away with it. They've already left him out in the rain having tentatively backed his invasion then immediately decried it and refused to support him in the UN.

[Electro1980]

TheJimi said:

J4CKO said:

TheJimi said:

julian987R said:

TheJimi said:

Anyone else getting a bit uncomfortable at the alienation of Russia, and the ongoing international pile-in?

Surely the last thing you want to do to someone like Putin is make him feel like he has nothing to lose?

Gotta stand up to a bully. Come on man where’s your b@lls

Yes, thanks for that searing riposte.

I'm all for standing up to bullies, but not all bullies are equal, and in this case, I think alienating Putin and Russia, as is currently happening, while deserved and just, is also a dangerous game to play.

I'm not against it, but I'm uncomfortable with corning a headbanger with a fktonne of nukes at his disposal.

We are all very uncomfortable with it, but cant really just do nothing to support Ukraine, pretend its not happening and further embolden him, what's next ? It needs dealing with and to be honest I think so far its been a solid and sensible response.

fk me, where did I say we should do nothing?!

What other option is there? Either strong, coordinated action or nothing. Doing nothing is not an option.

[Derek Smith]

TheJimi said:

Anyone else getting a bit uncomfortable at the alienation of Russia, and the ongoing international pile-in?

Surely the last thing you want to do to someone like Putin is make him feel like he has nothing to lose?

At the moment, all the west seems to be doing is using sanctions and supplying arms. That, surely, was to be expected, although perhaps not the current degree. He has the armour, fire power and manpower to defeat Ukraine militarily. The problem is that it might cause even more problems for him. I can't see China turning on Russia, but Putin will be in a weak position when negotiating deals. India depends on the west to a signigicant degree and might possibly join everyone (almost) else.

I can't see an option for Ukraine in the short/mid term. Even a stalemate is beyond all hope.

Who is going to knock Putin from his perch and replace him? They'll be confronted by the same problems. They could not pull out, dust the place down and apologise. Ukraine would want reparations, possibly even Crimea.

I'm of an age where I can remember Russian military equipment being a class leader, or so we were told. Their aircraft were talked of in hushed tones, and everyone knew that if they wanted to take Western Europe, all NATO could do was delay the advance a few days at best. The past four days has convinced me that they are more like Fred Karno's lot. I'm oddly reassured.

But Russia cannot be seen to fail in its invasion of such a weak country. Face is everything, or why else the May Day parade?

I would think that NATO will gain a lot of info, not to mention vicarious experience, during the current war, and more if Russia commits. Benefits on the back of dead children, civilians and army personnel.

[TonyToniTone]

CraigyMc said:

Bot = automated poster. Which you aren't.

Walt = Walter Mitty. Means a person who claims to have something to do with the military but in fact does not. A fantasist. Which I don't think you are. Comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mitty but in the context of a "walt" it's usually someone who claims to be in the SAS or some other special forces.

Walter Mitty was a general fantasist, could be anything not necessarily war related but I am suppose in the context of seeing a column of military vehicles stretching from Aberdeen to the out skirts of London is pretty apt.

[originals]

TheJimi said:

Anyone else getting a bit uncomfortable at the alienation of Russia, and the ongoing international pile-in?

Surely the last thing you want to do to someone like Putin is make him feel like he has nothing to lose?

I want him to feel like he has nothing to gain.

[Electro1980]

HM-2 said:

China will gladly fk Russia six ways to Sunday if they feel they can get away with it. They've already left him out in the rain having tentatively backed his invasion then immediately decried it and refused to support him in the UN.

I’m hoping China will come around soon and stop this. They are the one country that could now stop him.

[Register1]

HM-2 said:

Register1 said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

hyphen said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

The issue here is Putin may now see it as a war against everyone who's supplying equipment and intel etc to Ukraine?

Russia know that the USA is co-coordinating everything behind the scenes.

That's exactly my point though - he may just order attacks on other countries, although I sincerely hope not. If he does, I suspect the might of most of the world would be on his case, save perhaps N. Korea and perhaps China.

China not going anywhere near Putin, while he is in Ukraine.

China will gladly fk Russia six ways to Sunday if they feel they can get away with it. They've already left him out in the rain having tentatively backed his invasion then immediately decried it and refused to support him in the UN.

China and Russia not the big buddies of old.
China got the tech from Russia that they wanted, some 20 years ago,
China have moved on to capitalism.
Its all about money now in China.
fk Russia as far as China are concerned, you are on your own on this.

[king arthur]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Oh absolutely not. We don't know what Putin is thinking, but IF he is thinking "this is now war against everyone" then we may as well get in "properly" and help Ukraine and end this mess ASAP rather than just giving them equipment. It's a very fine line, and I'm glad I'm not the one making the calls

I totally agree FWIW. What I fear is seeing the kinds of things in the coming days that push us over that line.

[J4CKO]

TheJimi said:

J4CKO said:

TheJimi said:

julian987R said:

TheJimi said:

Anyone else getting a bit uncomfortable at the alienation of Russia, and the ongoing international pile-in?

Surely the last thing you want to do to someone like Putin is make him feel like he has nothing to lose?

Gotta stand up to a bully. Come on man where’s your b@lls

Yes, thanks for that searing riposte.

I'm all for standing up to bullies, but not all bullies are equal, and in this case, I think alienating Putin and Russia, as is currently happening, while deserved and just, is also a dangerous game to play.

I'm not against it, but I'm uncomfortable with corning a headbanger with a fktonne of nukes at his disposal.

We are all very uncomfortable with it, but cant really just do nothing to support Ukraine, pretend its not happening and further embolden him, what's next ? It needs dealing with and to be honest I think so far its been a solid and sensible response.

fk me, where did I say we should do nothing?!

He is being alienated with sanctions, you said you weren't comfortable with that, nobody has joined in the fighting yet as that is a red rag, not sure what else has been done that is alienating and antagonizing him ?

Its been fairly low key, Liz Truss has him threatening nukes so has a low bar.

[Dingu]

king arthur said:

I totally agree FWIW. What I fear is seeing the kinds of things in the coming days that push us over that line.

If the kinds of things such as giving Ukraine aid, sanctioning Russia and condemning them pushes it to nuclear then it is inevitable anyway. It’s just a matter of when the line in the sand is drawn.

[Register1]

Electro1980 said:

HM-2 said:

China will gladly fk Russia six ways to Sunday if they feel they can get away with it. They've already left him out in the rain having tentatively backed his invasion then immediately decried it and refused to support him in the UN.

I’m hoping China will come around soon and stop this. They are the one country that could now stop him.

They (China) have no intention of getting involved on either side.
Positively staying neutral.
They won't be helping Russia.
Yes, they need buy gas from Russia, but that was a deal planned 12 months ago.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

king arthur said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Oh absolutely not. We don't know what Putin is thinking, but IF he is thinking "this is now war against everyone" then we may as well get in "properly" and help Ukraine and end this mess ASAP rather than just giving them equipment. It's a very fine line, and I'm glad I'm not the one making the calls

I totally agree FWIW. What I fear is seeing the kinds of things in the coming days that push us over that line.

Me too, it is concerning.

[Mark-ri571]

RAF Typhoon keeping an eye on things at the moment

[Derek Smith]

Puggit said:

DAVEVO9 said:

How bad are things compared to the Cuban missile crisis?

Not even in the same chapter. That was fingers hovering over the button time.

It's similar in some ways. The USA did not want a missile base in Cuba, any more than Putin wants NATO bases in Ukraine. It was possible that the USA would invade Cuba to destroy the sites.

It was reported, after the event, that it came close to war. I see no reason to disbelieve that.

[Narcisus]

Register1 said:

HM-2 said:

Register1 said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

hyphen said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

The issue here is Putin may now see it as a war against everyone who's supplying equipment and intel etc to Ukraine?

Russia know that the USA is co-coordinating everything behind the scenes.

That's exactly my point though - he may just order attacks on other countries, although I sincerely hope not. If he does, I suspect the might of most of the world would be on his case, save perhaps N. Korea and perhaps China.

China not going anywhere near Putin, while he is in Ukraine.

China will gladly fk Russia six ways to Sunday if they feel they can get away with it. They've already left him out in the rain having tentatively backed his invasion then immediately decried it and refused to support him in the UN.

China and Russia not the big buddies of old.
China got the tech from Russia that they wanted, some 20 years ago,
China have moved on to capitalism.
Its all about money now in China.
fk Russia as far as China are concerned, you are on your own on this.

Capitalism won’t do China much good if Putin vaporises one of its main revenue streams.

[bobbylondonuk]

Where did this idea that Putin is aiming to take over the capital and the rest of Ukraine come from?

My guess is that he doesn’t want to go all in because it will mean huge destruction and loss of lives. This puts him in an awkward position.

If he says go time, the whole place will be flattened in a few days and thousands will die. So why is he holding back and getting sucker punched all over the place?

The media propaganda is brilliant so far, but realistically Ukraine has no chance and it’s people are heroes in waiting.

[C G]

Something doesn't quite add up here.

I think there must be a lot of disinformation out there, from both sides.