Cost of living squeeze in 2022

[Welshbeef]

tannhauser said:

I’m not on about those who’ve benefited so far from the pandemic, such as those able to WFH of which I am one; I’m talking about the general populace who are superficially “well off” flashing the cash, fancy new cars every couple of years, mortgages they have overextended on and have no hope of paying off, and those who spunk all their money up the wall with nothing to show for their earnings at the end of the month etc. Those who look down on others who are more prudent, drive older cars, are careful with their money etc. and think those who question the narrative, the fact houses are 10x earnings etc have a screw loose.

I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.

Bit of a chip on your shoulder there.

Not sure who you think looks down on others? I don’t know any / never had - do you actually know people who do? (If so maybe time to be blunt with them about it or disassociate yourself from them).

Personally I look down on criminals the more sever the crimes the more I really hate what they have done.

[eccles]

Welshbeef said:

tannhauser said:

I’m not on about those who’ve benefited so far from the pandemic, such as those able to WFH of which I am one; I’m talking about the general populace who are superficially “well off” flashing the cash, fancy new cars every couple of years, mortgages they have overextended on and have no hope of paying off, and those who spunk all their money up the wall with nothing to show for their earnings at the end of the month etc. Those who look down on others who are more prudent, drive older cars, are careful with their money etc. and think those who question the narrative, the fact houses are 10x earnings etc have a screw loose.

I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.

Bit of a chip on your shoulder there.

Not sure who you think looks down on others? I don’t know any / never had - do you actually know people who do? (If so maybe time to be blunt with them about it or disassociate yourself from them).

Personally I look down on criminals the more sever the crimes the more I really hate what they have done.

From your previous posts on this topic it really comes across as if you look down on the poor. Just stick another jumper on for gods sake!

[Deep Thought]

Red9zero said:

We have saved a huge amount wfh and not socialising as much and while I don't deny Amazon has done well out of us during lockdown, most of what we bought was stuff we would have got anyway, just we got it online rather than leave the house. We spent a small amount on home improvements, mainly as we were spending a lot more time at home looking at jobs that needed doing. Other than that though, we didn't replace the car as planned, due to not using it anywhere near as much. We also managed to save a lot more ...

Pretty much verbatim for us also. That would seem to hold true for most of our family and friends also.

Perhaps there are pockets of people who blew their brains out on new cars and big unnecessary extensions but i'd have thought they were the minority, not the norm.

[bitchstewie]

One of the things that struck me during the "proper" lockdowns on my daily walk was the number of brand new cars just sitting on drives whilst people were either furloughed or working from home.

Mine was one of them.

Soon as I got the opportunity that went but it still jumps out at me whenever I'm out and about as one of those things I just notice more.

I don't begrudge people and I fully get that transport is a cost of living so I don't expect everyone to drive bangers.

It does surprise me the number of driveways I go past where I'm fairly sure there's £600-800/month of metal parked on the drives of what are just average little houses, by which I mean new build 2-3 beds not PistonHeads small with just the 5 beds and a couple of acres for the ponies.

[Welshbeef]

eccles said:

From your previous posts on this topic it really comes across as if you look down on the poor. Just stick another jumper on for gods sake!

Use less energy is a way of reducing the cost.

You might want to watch Martin Lewis show which was in in December about this and he used the wear more line.

Martin Lewis - for god sake not looking after the interests of consumers…..

[jmn]

I don't know if this is a nation wide scheme but people living in Devon can access the Household Support Fund for help with energy and other expenses.
The Scheme is administered by the Local Authority.

[Deep Thought]

Welshbeef said:

tannhauser said:

I’m not on about those who’ve benefited so far from the pandemic, such as those able to WFH of which I am one; I’m talking about the general populace who are superficially “well off” flashing the cash, fancy new cars every couple of years, mortgages they have overextended on and have no hope of paying off, and those who spunk all their money up the wall with nothing to show for their earnings at the end of the month etc. Those who look down on others who are more prudent, drive older cars, are careful with their money etc. and think those who question the narrative, the fact houses are 10x earnings etc have a screw loose.

I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.

Bit of a chip on your shoulder there.

Not sure who you think looks down on others? I don’t know any / never had - do you actually know people who do? (If so maybe time to be blunt with them about it or disassociate yourself from them).

Personally I look down on criminals the more sever the crimes the more I really hate what they have done.

I was thinking the same thing.

It always surprises me how on PH people know the financial details of others in depth and know these people look down on them.

They seem to have very odd relationships with their friends and neighbours.

I dont have anyone like that in my friends and family circle and i dont know even the names of our neighbours let alone what they do or what they do with their money - maybe over time i've naturally distanced myself from people like that. It would seem strange to keep those people around you.

[Gecko1978]

eccles said:

Gecko1978 said:

What % of people are we talking about about an those in that situation will i assume be in recipt of maximum benefits already so no council tax, rent paid, access to food banks even Its a grim existence of course but not a common one. What will happen is those who get buy today might not be able to tomorrow but because they have work might not get benefits as I say eat or mortgage is not a great choice but as we saw in 2008 when people cant pay the bills then everyone suffers

Eat or Mortgage? Sell the house and move to part of the country where you can afford to live.... You know, just like all those in minimum wage jobs just need to work harder and educate themselves to improve themselves.

houses take time to sell, moving somewhere cheaper might mean moving further from jobs (there is a reason houses are cheaper). disregard london an south east (where I live) and if you move is there a huge saving. If everyone is trying to sell who will you sell too. Issue is its not just the very low paid who suffer but large parts of the middle say 20 to 80k and if they stop spending then demand for lots of jobs disappears (no meals out no ristorante staff etc). Go back to 2007 an look at names on the high st then look to 2010 an see how it changed The same again can happen if we crush the middle to spare the bottom the top are never affected at all

[princeperch]

I deliver meals for a local food bank once a week. It doesn't take very long as I zip around on my bike and it's done in 45 mins.

I have noticed that more people are getting meals delivered in what would be generally considered to be middle class roads/houses. 80pc of the deliveries I make are to the demographic you'd expect : single mothers and the elderly or vulnerable.

[eccles]

bhstewie said:

One of the things that struck me during the "proper" lockdowns on my daily walk was the number of brand new cars just sitting on drives whilst people were either furloughed or working from home.

Mine was one of them.

Soon as I got the opportunity that went but it still jumps out at me whenever I'm out and about as one of those things I just notice more.

I don't begrudge people and I fully get that transport is a cost of living so I don't expect everyone to drive bangers.

It does surprise me the number of driveways I go past where I'm fairly sure there's £600-800/month of metal parked on the drives of what are just average little houses, by which I mean new build 2-3 beds not PistonHeads small with just the 5 beds and a couple of acres for the ponies.

I have a brand new car sat on the drive, just got it in October. Quite a few people in work have new cars and I don't know anyone spending £6-800 a month on them.
In my case I needed a higher car to get elderly relatives in and out easily so I bought a 2 year old SUV. That car, through no fault of my own increased in value by nearly £6k in 6 months. New car prices weren't going up, so for an extra £2k I chopped it in for a brand new one.
I don't even own the 3 bed house I live in, I rent it shock horror!

I just find it strange that you should comment on peoples cars when there are many, many reasons why they might have a new one.

[Fusion777]

I think most people are aware that using the heating less or wearing extra layers will help them save money. Can’t see a Nobel Prize in economics being dished out for that one.

Coal is now a no-go. We should have built more nuclear 30 years ago but that ship has largely sailed- it’s very expensive now, more than offshore wind. That leaves gas, which has been the go to for several decades, and renewables. The cost of renewables is coming down with economies of scale, but I doubt it’ll be as cheap as coal was. Energy security and known cost is at least as important as it being cheap.

[Gecko1978]

Deep Thought said:

Red9zero said:

We have saved a huge amount wfh and not socialising as much and while I don't deny Amazon has done well out of us during lockdown, most of what we bought was stuff we would have got anyway, just we got it online rather than leave the house. We spent a small amount on home improvements, mainly as we were spending a lot more time at home looking at jobs that needed doing. Other than that though, we didn't replace the car as planned, due to not using it anywhere near as much. We also managed to save a lot more ...

Pretty much verbatim for us also. That would seem to hold true for most of our family and friends also.

Perhaps there are pockets of people who blew their brains out on new cars and big unnecessary extensions but i'd have thought they were the minority, not the norm.

seems some on this thread think WFH meant you won the lottery where as those poor people on furlough are just oppressed.

The good thing about WFH for many it shsowed you did not need to be in office or work full time ever again which is good for the environment and good for your wallet, I have since 2010 been saying this but of course people actually saving money is not what the government want, we could have saved billions of tons in CO2 if people did not do a daily commute,

[TRIUMPHBULLET]

Quantative easing has been propping up a crippled economy for years
The furlough scheme was an uneccessary measure which will feed inflation as the money will have to be paid back by the taxpayer, inflation will hit double figures before it eases.
As said before, a certain group in society are insulated from the worst of this at the moment but I can see a stock market crash happening with the inevitable consequences.
The next few years are going to be stty for many sadly.

[Jiebo]

Gecko1978 said:

Inflation without wage inflation is the issue, it condenses wealth at the top and compresses wage ranges at the bottom (minimum wage rises but those at next level get nothing).

Tax rises are to keep the spending going not actually to improve outcomes. An what we see in the real world is tax rises drive price inflation and hurt people at the bottom, the middle bare more of the impact by being excluded from benefits and yet are expected to be the core source of funding and the very rich simply as always are immune from this.

Inflation with wage rises in the short term creates run-away inflation which is far more problematic. What we want is a bit of pain while it eventually equalises, which based on forecasts is looking like Q3 2022.

[Fusion777]

No way is the furlough and other Covid support money all getting paid back. We haven’t had balanced books since 2001. The coalition tried, but it resulted in slow growth. They didn’t even manage to eliminate the deficit, never mind the massive debt pile we have. £2.3tn and counting. Can’t see a dent being made in it anytime soon, if ever.

No-one has the guts to try it- it would probably be electoral suicide and might bring about 1980s recession-style conditions, with far reaching changes for society. Asset price and debt bubbles would deflate very quickly. Can you imagine the consequences of interest rate hikes of several percent and mass reduction in state spending today?

[mike74]

bhstewie said:

For some perhaps yes but it doesn't work that way when you're already choosing between topping up the energy card or buying food.

Those would be nice options to have.

What section of society has so little income that they can't potentially afford moderate heating or basic food staples?

[Gecko1978]

Jiebo said:

Gecko1978 said:

Inflation without wage inflation is the issue, it condenses wealth at the top and compresses wage ranges at the bottom (minimum wage rises but those at next level get nothing).

Tax rises are to keep the spending going not actually to improve outcomes. An what we see in the real world is tax rises drive price inflation and hurt people at the bottom, the middle bare more of the impact by being excluded from benefits and yet are expected to be the core source of funding and the very rich simply as always are immune from this.

Inflation with wage rises in the short term creates run-away inflation which is far more problematic. What we want is a bit of pain while it eventually equalises, which based on forecasts is looking like Q3 2022.

only if its large. The issue we have is people beyond min wage have often not had pay rises in years I kmpw people who had had same salary for 5 or more years. Now I would ask why stay in that job but people do, I am in my 21st year of work and know people who are in the same firm they were when we left uni, sure they have proggressed a little but they are not all MD's now most middle managment with stagnant salaries but house prices, energy prices an car prices are not stagnent. We seem to be saying if your not starving then your fine but surely that is not the outcome we want for people. I don't want people to starve or freeze but as was said at the start of this thread economic slavery is also not a great outcome

[markcoznottz]

Gecko1978 said:

tannhauser said:

I’m not on about those who’ve benefited so far from the pandemic, such as those able to WFH of which I am one; I’m talking about the general populace who are superficially “well off” flashing the cash, new fancy cars every couple of years, mortgages they have overextended on and have no hope of paying off, and those who spunk all their money up the wall with nothing to show for their earnings at the end of the month etc. Those who look down on others who are more prudent, drive older cars, are careful with their money etc. and think those who question the narrative, the fact houses are 10x earnings etc have a screw loose.

I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.

I do get what you are saying, I too worked from home and as mentioned I could not claim furlough as I am a contractor, but WFH is common in my line of work anyway. An I dirve a 4 year old 900cc Renault so no IT contractor 911 on pcp for me (other stereo types are available). But say there is the crash you hope for. in 2008 who did it hurt? people at the very bottom who then could not get work that's who the rich just bought up assets.

If you want to make people better off they need at all levels to keep more of their income and then be responsible for the outcomes. Buy a merc on pcp loose your job tough, on mimimum wage then zero tax for you but you have to put cash aside for the lean times etc or improve your skill set, demand higher wages (lorry drivers springs to mind).

Wishing ill on others won't make ur outcome better often it will make it worse

Those people never gave a monkeys for people with savings though. Remortgage to buy a new car/ holiday/ bla bla. I know people despise savers, but those people deffered enjoyment of thier already taxed income to help thier kids, grandkids etc. why should they prop up people who want the lifestyle without the responsibilities. Like someone else said, it resulted in the rush into assets, btl, and other distortions. It cannot have been a worse outcome

[eccles]

Gecko1978 said:

only if its large. The issue we have is people beyond min wage have often not had pay rises in years I kmpw people who had had same salary for 5 or more years. Now I would ask why stay in that job but people do, I am in my 21st year of work and know people who are in the same firm they were when we left uni, sure they have proggressed a little but they are not all MD's now most middle managment with stagnant salaries but house prices, energy prices an car prices are not stagnent. We seem to be saying if your not starving then your fine but surely that is not the outcome we want for people. I don't want people to starve or freeze but as was said at the start of this thread economic slavery is also not a great outcome

In my experience the vast majority are happy as they are. Not everyone is ambitious or capable or wants promotions.

You say "We seem to be saying if your not starving then your fine but surely that is not the outcome we want for people." Who is this "we"?
Surely the fact that a lot of your friends are still in he same company after years shows that many people value stability and quality of life over a 'career' or forever chasing pay rises.

[Jasandjules]

We all knew this was coming. I just hope it is not as bad as I am expecting.