Cost of living squeeze in 2022

[J210]

OnTheBreadline said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61584546

"UK households are set to have hundreds of pounds knocked off energy bills this winter as part of a 10bn package to help people cope with soaring prices."

A good start.

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

[oyster]

MG CHRIS said:

PRTVR said:

xeny said:

That's paying for the bailouts of the various failed energy companies.

That the government via the regulator allowed to set up without sufficient capital to weather a financial storm.

And then people like Martin Lewis told people to use them to save a few quid backfired now.

There are hundreds of thousands who switched to some of the very small providers on his advice (he even had a switching tool which was a revenue earner to facilitate this) for some very cheap rates. Rates which back fired on people as they went bust and ended up on variable rates. He deliberately appeared to steer people away from fixes with the big energy providers as their deals weren't as generous (and no doubt his commission was smaller). If people had been on these less generous fixes, they'd be paying less now.

[xeny]

J210 said:

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

The article goes on to say:

"The support, to be announced by Chancellor Rishi Sunak later, is expected to be largely funded by a windfall tax on oil and gas firms that could raise £7bn."

which doesn't read like money printing?

[oyster]

dmahon said:

Once every 50 pages or so I like to point out that we wasted half a trillion on an unwinnable war against a minor virus, and people generally supported it. All of that money could have taken the sting out of the leccy bill!

It's more than that. The actions we (and most governments around the world) took in spending that half trillion directly caused the supply chain blockages which are a huge contribution to the rise in prices now.

People need to understand this. The world is paying the price now for the (over)reaction to Covid. The young and poor of the world will suffer because we tried to benefit the old and the rich.

[Sway]

oyster said:

It's more than that. The actions we (and most governments around the world) took in spending that half trillion directly caused the supply chain blockages which are a huge contribution to the rise in prices now.

People need to understand this. The world is paying the price now for the (over)reaction to Covid. The young and poor of the world will suffer because we tried to benefit the old and the rich.

Except that's not really true.

The stuff that has gone up most, wasn't effected by the lockdowns.

Essential industry, including farming and energy production, continued largely unabated.

There's even quite a popular Amazon show which shows a farmer growing just as much as normal (well, apart from his fk ups) right through the worst of the lockdowns.

[Harry H]

xeny said:

J210 said:

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

The article goes on to say:

"The support, to be announced by Chancellor Rishi Sunak later, is expected to be largely funded by a windfall tax on oil and gas firms that could raise 7bn."

which doesn't read like money printing?

I loath the concept of a government that taxes us to then give it back oh so generously as a hand out. If we didn't have the highest tax since decades ago there wouldn't be a cost of living crisis

[basherX]

Harry H said:

I loath the concept of a government that taxes us to then give it back oh so generously as a hand out. If we didn't have the highest tax since decades ago there wouldn't be a cost of living crisis

“I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”

Churchill had it right.

[Murph7355]

J210 said:

...

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

I'd do this, but there would need to be clauses that ensured the providers don't take the piss.

I'd be looking at VAT across the board, hiking it on high value and/or non-essentials and dropping it totally elsewhere.

Windfall tax is coming, which I think is stupid in the way it will likely be implemented. If we want more money from companies making "excess" profits, there are better ways to do it without singling out a sector. You could even do it whilst allowing a rebate for investments in the UK.

Sunak, however, is the epitome of grey. He will be what brings Boris down.

[Shnozz]

Mate of mine is on a fix for some time yet. Can't believe his luck with the council tax rebate and now the £400 package in October. Never had such low energy costs.

[HTP99]

oyster said:

MG CHRIS said:

PRTVR said:

xeny said:

That's paying for the bailouts of the various failed energy companies.

That the government via the regulator allowed to set up without sufficient capital to weather a financial storm.

And then people like Martin Lewis told people to use them to save a few quid backfired now.

There are hundreds of thousands who switched to some of the very small providers on his advice (he even had a switching tool which was a revenue earner to facilitate this) for some very cheap rates. Rates which back fired on people as they went bust and ended up on variable rates. He deliberately appeared to steer people away from fixes with the big energy providers as their deals weren't as generous (and no doubt his commission was smaller). If people had been on these less generous fixes, they'd be paying less now.

In August last year I signed up to a 2.5 year deal with EDF (so glad I did), however they weren't the cheapest, Avro were but I hadn't heard of them, I figured an extra £9 (circa 10%) per month was worth the peace of mind going with a company that I had heard of and were large enough not to go bust and disappear, not that there was any indication at the time what was about to happen I just felt better playing it safe and I've always been wary of the cheapest of something being from a non household name.

Weeks later it all started to go tits up!

[Camoradi]

Sway said:

Except that's not really true.

The stuff that has gone up most, wasn't effected by the lockdowns.

Essential industry, including farming and energy production, continued largely unabated.

There's even quite a popular Amazon show which shows a farmer growing just as much as normal (well, apart from his fk ups) right through the worst of the lockdowns.

Clarkson.....??

We're all gonna die!

[Mark Benson]

glazbagun said:

It's given to everyone because they'll remember it & hopefully vote Tory IMO. Giving benefits to the poorest leads to headlines of the feckless and workshy with Sky TV, etc, being helped at the expense of the Hard Working Families.

I do wonder at the effects of this vs a tax cut on fuel which would reduce costs for consumers, reduce treasury intake, but be proportionate to energy consumption. Perhaps tax cuts would disproportionately benefit the profligate over the frugal. I just wish we could see the government's maths when decisions like this are made.

The maths is simple:
If they give away tax cuts, more often than not they have to take them back at some point - in less than 2 years there will be a general election.
Cut taxes now and in a years time (in the run up to the election) they'll have to raise them again and be the party that's punishing us twice by raising taxes (remeber when they wanted to lower benefits after raising them during the pandemic?).
Cut them closer to the election, "We're the party of lower taxes, Labour will put your taxes up if they get in".

So it's back to short-termism and 'bash the bogeyman' - The 'evil' energy companies have made a profit so we'll 'take from the easy target rich and give to the potential voters poor'

It's a government with a bloated state that's out of ideas.

[Gecko1978]

Harry H said:

xeny said:

J210 said:

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

The article goes on to say:

"The support, to be announced by Chancellor Rishi Sunak later, is expected to be largely funded by a windfall tax on oil and gas firms that could raise 7bn."

which doesn't read like money printing?

I loath the concept of a government that taxes us to then give it back oh so generously as a hand out. If we didn't have the highest tax since decades ago there wouldn't be a cost of living crisis

I agree tax is too high however....Universal Credit, NHS, Civil Service, local council, police, fire, military, MPs, Foreign aid, travel subsidises, cross rail, HS2....all has to be paid for an if we cur tax then something has to give...pick one

[Mark Benson]

Murph7355 said:

Sunak, however, is the epitome of grey. He will be what brings Boris down.

Maybe that's the plan......



Nah, that would require intelligence and foresight.

[Mark Benson]

Gecko1978 said:

Harry H said:

xeny said:

J210 said:

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

The article goes on to say:

"The support, to be announced by Chancellor Rishi Sunak later, is expected to be largely funded by a windfall tax on oil and gas firms that could raise 7bn."

which doesn't read like money printing?

I loath the concept of a government that taxes us to then give it back oh so generously as a hand out. If we didn't have the highest tax since decades ago there wouldn't be a cost of living crisis

I agree tax is too high however....Universal Credit, NHS, Civil Service, local council, police, fire, military, MPs, Foreign aid, travel subsidises, cross rail, HS2....all has to be paid for an if we cur tax then something has to give...pick one

In order?
HS2, foreign aid, crossrail, travel subsidies, civil service, in-work benefits (by raising the burden on employers to compensate), more civil service, consoldate local councils (now so much is administered centrally).

Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 26th May 10:44

[ARHarh]

Gecko1978 said:

Harry H said:

xeny said:

J210 said:

So we print more money to stem the issue created by printing more money....

Surely an actual cut in VAT/green levies off fuel would be better rather than just giving a hand out.

The article goes on to say:

"The support, to be announced by Chancellor Rishi Sunak later, is expected to be largely funded by a windfall tax on oil and gas firms that could raise 7bn."

which doesn't read like money printing?

I loath the concept of a government that taxes us to then give it back oh so generously as a hand out. If we didn't have the highest tax since decades ago there wouldn't be a cost of living crisis

I agree tax is too high however....Universal Credit, NHS, Civil Service, local council, police, fire, military, MPs, Foreign aid, travel subsidises, cross rail, HS2....all has to be paid for an if we cur tax then something has to give...pick one

We could probably stop paying the civil service at 4pm on Friday when their cheese and wine parties start, then claim back all the money we spent on cheese and wine for said parties, over the last 50 odd years. Maybe even sell the wine fridges we bought for them on eBay

[oyster]

Sway said:

oyster said:

It's more than that. The actions we (and most governments around the world) took in spending that half trillion directly caused the supply chain blockages which are a huge contribution to the rise in prices now.

People need to understand this. The world is paying the price now for the (over)reaction to Covid. The young and poor of the world will suffer because we tried to benefit the old and the rich.

Except that's not really true.

The stuff that has gone up most, wasn't effected by the lockdowns.

Essential industry, including farming and energy production, continued largely unabated.

There's even quite a popular Amazon show which shows a farmer growing just as much as normal (well, apart from his fk ups) right through the worst of the lockdowns.

What?
Energy demand fell off a cliff. Factories were closed. Cars were left unused. Skies were empty.
Oil hit prices in the $20’s.
Production was mothballed.

[Mark Benson]

oyster said:

Sway said:

oyster said:

It's more than that. The actions we (and most governments around the world) took in spending that half trillion directly caused the supply chain blockages which are a huge contribution to the rise in prices now.

People need to understand this. The world is paying the price now for the (over)reaction to Covid. The young and poor of the world will suffer because we tried to benefit the old and the rich.

Except that's not really true.

The stuff that has gone up most, wasn't effected by the lockdowns.

Essential industry, including farming and energy production, continued largely unabated.

There's even quite a popular Amazon show which shows a farmer growing just as much as normal (well, apart from his fk ups) right through the worst of the lockdowns.

What?
Energy demand fell off a cliff. Factories were closed. Cars were left unused. Skies were empty.
Oil hit prices in the $20’s.
Production was mothballed.

And most importantly, global movement of goods was halted. Given we rely heavily on imports, both food and industrial it's obvious that when movement restarted the pent up demand would mean that prices would rise.

[isaldiri]

oyster said:

It's more than that. The actions we (and most governments around the world) took in spending that half trillion directly caused the supply chain blockages which are a huge contribution to the rise in prices now.

People need to understand this. The world is paying the price now for the (over)reaction to Covid. The young and poor of the world will suffer because we tried to benefit the old and the rich.

Yes and no I suppose. The government actions certainly exacerbated things more than they should have. However a lot of the 'activity/movement' shutdowns or at minimum reductions were also due to people being generally quite spooked by the whole covid thing (leaving aside the excessive fear mongering promoted by said governments) anyway and were already changing their behaviour, in some cases quite significantly so a good chunk of that slowdown was also always going to happen. where that line is drawn between what would have happened irrespective and how much worse the reaction made it is somewhat unclear....

[Chris Type R]

HTP99 said:

In August last year I signed up to a 2.5 year deal with EDF (so glad I did), however they weren't the cheapest, Avro were but I hadn't heard of them, I figured an extra 9 (circa 10%) per month was worth the peace of mind going with a company that I had heard of and were large enough not to go bust and disappear, not that there was any indication at the time what was about to happen I just felt better playing it safe and I've always been wary of the cheapest of something being from a non household name.

Weeks later it all started to go tits up!

Similar to myself in August '21 moving from Bulb to a 3 year fix with Shell Energy - there were cheaper fixes at the time, but I chose based on the "Shell" part of the name It was quite a large hike at the time & I found myself second guessing the decision for a few months.