Cost of living squeeze in 2022

[Welshbeef]

oyster said:

Do you count capital gains as income though? Including on main private residence?

As to a flat rate tax - everyone I know on 63.25% and 48.25% tax rates (anecdotally of course) describe their rate of tax as broadly fair.

Why have two rates if we’re going down a flat tax system.

1 rate % is all that’s needed and a starting £ value for it to trigger is all that is needed. (Ideally it should be from £0.01 upwards so everyone pays in and then clearly the harder you work and earn the more you take home no more silly marginal rates.

[Mark Benson]

pquinn said:

If you support it you're either someone who thinks it won't hit them hard, or have enough income that funding it as an alternative to income taxes won't hurt.


If you want 'fair' just tax *all* income at a flat rate.

I'm neither of those, wife and daughter keep horses on a few acres so I'm hardly immune.
But the value of land is entirely dependent on it's potential - low utility land won't bankrupt it's owner and ability to pay is overcome very simply - utilise or sell to someone who has the means.

Though I do almost agree on the flat tax, I suspect you could set the threshold at which tax starts at a level which would exclude many of the lowest earners from taxation at all, and a flat tax on income with no loopholes or offsets should have the advantage of being far harder to evade.

However, it comes down to my opinion that taxes on productive behaviour discourage productive behaviour, which is a problem. Taxes on landownership discourage landownership, which is not so much of a problem.

[JeffreyD]

Sway said:

Oh, the media are sts. Which is why I've already complained about the headline being discussed with the bias loaded in - when the actual article presents an entirely different picture on her actual comments.

"The mask slipped" - bks. He's blunt, and has some 'challenging' opinions, but he absolutely knows his onions on the topic of nutrition based on his direct experiences (that accord with mine on the receiving end, hence why I've already pointed out the 'activists' that are actually helpful for people in that situation, rather than the ones that make it political).

You say that but his "30p" example is not relevant in the real world. And whilst he makes his irrelevant point he's challenging and confrontational.

there's no wonder people respond the way they do.

[djc206]

Biggy Stardust said:

Perhaps because the recipients are now living significantly longer than was originally the case.

Does it hark back to the days of the police a bit more military in a sense? (The old days of parades grounds etc). Frontline policing is definitely a young persons game, tough work. My dad retired at 49.5, the pension was good but not enough at that age especially with kids still at home. Like most ex services people he took his skills into the private sector and has now semi retired at 62 which is more ‘normal’.

I’m in a weird halfway house where the role I work in was public sector many moons ago but not any more but I’m still in a DB pension, new staff have been DC for more than a decade). This year has actually been a bit of a stter because of the effect of inflation on Pension Input Amount, I’ve copped a fairly substantial tax bill and will almost certainly end up with another next year, I know boo fking hoo but it does expose a rare downside to DB. Oh how the DC members have mocked us.

[Sway]

JeffreyD said:

Sway said:

Oh, the media are sts. Which is why I've already complained about the headline being discussed with the bias loaded in - when the actual article presents an entirely different picture on her actual comments.

"The mask slipped" - bks. He's blunt, and has some 'challenging' opinions, but he absolutely knows his onions on the topic of nutrition based on his direct experiences (that accord with mine on the receiving end, hence why I've already pointed out the 'activists' that are actually helpful for people in that situation, rather than the ones that make it political).

You say that but his "30p" example is not relevant in the real world. And whilst he makes his irrelevant point he's challenging and confrontational.

there's no wonder people respond the way they do.

I disagree - as I've done it.

Oats, milk, 25g frozen fruits. A bloody good breakfast for under 30p.

[Welshbeef]

Sway said:

I disagree - as I've done it.

Oats, milk, 25g frozen fruits. A bloody good breakfast for under 30p.

I buy Weetabix in the 48 unit size it’s £5. I have 3 biscuits every morning so 16 servings £0.31 then milk no idea how much £ and a tiny dash of sugar (minuscule cost).
I doubt breakfast for me costs more than £0.35.

Washed down with tap water.

This too is a bloody good breakfast.

[Biggy Stardust]

djc206 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Perhaps because the recipients are now living significantly longer than was originally the case.

Does it hark back to the days of the police a bit more military in a sense? (The old days of parades grounds etc). Frontline policing is definitely a young persons game, tough work. My dad retired at 49.5, the pension was good but not enough at that age especially with kids still at home. Like most ex services people he took his skills into the private sector and has now semi retired at 62 which is more ‘normal’.

I’m in a weird halfway house where the role I work in was public sector many moons ago but not any more but I’m still in a DB pension, new staff have been DC for more than a decade). This year has actually been a bit of a stter because of the effect of inflation on Pension Input Amount, I’ve copped a fairly substantial tax bill and will almost certainly end up with another next year, I know boo fking hoo but it does expose a rare downside to DB. Oh how the DC members have mocked us.

Nevertheless it's quite feasible for someone to retire after 30 years' working and live 45 years on their pension, getting more in pension than they ever did in salary even after adjusting for inflation.
Even the most ardent advocate will struggle to say that this is anything other than excessively generous and it needed to be reined in.

[djc206]

Welshbeef said:

I buy Weetabix in the 48 unit size it’s £5. I have 3 biscuits every morning so 16 servings £0.31 then milk no idea how much £ and a tiny dash of sugar (minuscule cost).
I doubt breakfast for me costs more than £0.35.

Washed down with tap water.

This too is a bloody good breakfast.

I myself am a wheat biscuits man and buy Tesco own brand ones, they’re just as good to my tastebuds and cost half as much as the branded ones.

Assuming a quarter of a pint of milk (?) at ~8p breakfast costs less than 25p.

[Armchair_Expert]

Martin Lewis was on LBC today, stated that the price rise in October will be at LEAST another 600 a year, likely more.

[JeffreyD]

Sway said:

I disagree - as I've done it.

Oats, milk, 25g frozen fruits. A bloody good breakfast for under 30p.

I didn't say it wasn't possible.

Just that his example was ridiculous and his presentation was confrontational.

Have you seen the pictures he used as "proof"?

[djc206]

Biggy Stardust said:

Nevertheless it's quite feasible for someone to retire after 30 years' working and live 45 years on their pension, getting more in pension than they ever did in salary even after adjusting for inflation.
Even the most ardent advocate will struggle to say that this is anything other than excessively generous and it needed to be reined in.

Sure it’s feasible, it’s also incredibly unlikely.

I don’t doubt that things needed to change but I take issue with pensions being changed significantly during the period of employment. If you sign up on the promise of something and then have it wrenched away from you it’s going to leave a bitter taste and you may well have chosen a different path at the start had you known.

[pghstochaj]

Welshbeef said:

Sway said:

I disagree - as I've done it.

Oats, milk, 25g frozen fruits. A bloody good breakfast for under 30p.

I buy Weetabix in the 48 unit size it’s £5. I have 3 biscuits every morning so 16 servings £0.31 then milk no idea how much £ and a tiny dash of sugar (minuscule cost).
I doubt breakfast for me costs more than £0.35.

Washed down with tap water.

This too is a bloody good breakfast.

Assuming you can't eat this three times a day, what evening meal which is fit for an adult costs 30p?

[HTP99]

djc206 said:

Welshbeef said:

I buy Weetabix in the 48 unit size it’s £5. I have 3 biscuits every morning so 16 servings £0.31 then milk no idea how much £ and a tiny dash of sugar (minuscule cost).
I doubt breakfast for me costs more than £0.35.

Washed down with tap water.

This too is a bloody good breakfast.

I myself am a wheat biscuits man and buy Tesco own brand ones, they’re just as good to my tastebuds and cost half as much as the branded ones.

Assuming a quarter of a pint of milk (?) at ~8p breakfast costs less than 25p.

My usual is 2 poached eggs on 1 piece of toasted granary, this will keep me full till lunch, I've worked out that using my usual Aldi granary (£1.45 I think but possibly less), value eggs (I actually use free range so they are more expensive), breakfast could cost me 24p.

[JeffreyD]

pghstochaj said:

Assuming you can't eat this three times a day, what evening meal which is fit for an adult costs 30p?

You batch cook

It's is possible, but there are a whole load of subjectivities.
It's also a lot easier if you have money and equipment than if you don't.

[Sway]

djc206 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Nevertheless it's quite feasible for someone to retire after 30 years' working and live 45 years on their pension, getting more in pension than they ever did in salary even after adjusting for inflation.
Even the most ardent advocate will struggle to say that this is anything other than excessively generous and it needed to be reined in.

Sure it’s feasible, it’s also incredibly unlikely.

I don’t doubt that things needed to change but I take issue with pensions being changed significantly during the period of employment. If you sign up on the promise of something and then have it wrenched away from you it’s going to leave a bitter taste and you may well have chosen a different path at the start had you known.

Unfortunately, it is pretty much impossible to 'promise' a thing over a multidecade term.

There's certainly no promise regarding defined contribution.

At the moment, far too much of the public sector wallows in the false premise of being 'underpaid' whilst also showing zero appreciation for the incredible (even after the changes) pension schemes they're also earning.

[Bathroom_Security]

See the BBC are reporting £1.80 ltr diesel

I filled up today and diesel was close to £1.90 ltr

Have to laugh, feel bad for the poor people that have to fill up a few times a week out their own pocket

That is truly terrible.

[bigandclever]

pghstochaj said:

Welshbeef said:

Sway said:

I disagree - as I've done it.

Oats, milk, 25g frozen fruits. A bloody good breakfast for under 30p.

I buy Weetabix in the 48 unit size it’s £5. I have 3 biscuits every morning so 16 servings £0.31 then milk no idea how much £ and a tiny dash of sugar (minuscule cost).
I doubt breakfast for me costs more than £0.35.

Washed down with tap water.

This too is a bloody good breakfast.

Assuming you can't eat this three times a day, what evening meal which is fit for an adult costs 30p?

If Beefy did have that 'bloody good breakfast' 3 times a day he'd be getting less than 1000 kcals a day, he'd be dead in a month.

[roger.mellie]

Biggy Stardust said:

djc206 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Perhaps because the recipients are now living significantly longer than was originally the case.

Does it hark back to the days of the police a bit more military in a sense? (The old days of parades grounds etc). Frontline policing is definitely a young persons game, tough work. My dad retired at 49.5, the pension was good but not enough at that age especially with kids still at home. Like most ex services people he took his skills into the private sector and has now semi retired at 62 which is more ‘normal’.

I’m in a weird halfway house where the role I work in was public sector many moons ago but not any more but I’m still in a DB pension, new staff have been DC for more than a decade). This year has actually been a bit of a stter because of the effect of inflation on Pension Input Amount, I’ve copped a fairly substantial tax bill and will almost certainly end up with another next year, I know boo fking hoo but it does expose a rare downside to DB. Oh how the DC members have mocked us.

Nevertheless it's quite feasible for someone to retire after 30 years' working and live 45 years on their pension, getting more in pension than they ever did in salary even after adjusting for inflation.
Even the most ardent advocate will struggle to say that this is anything other than excessively generous and it needed to be reined in.

Queue me up as the most ardent biggy. I'd say you've an attitudinal problem. If and it's a big if, it's possible to work 30 years and retire for 45 that's an amazing thing but not the norm so deal with the middle of the curve cases and don't use no longer available exceptions to argue the rule. What needs reined in right now on employment rather than reined in on invented jealousy stories?

I'd suggest that employers getting it cheap by not having to do much about pensions is an employer rather than an employee benefit. I know you're all for self responsibility, how much are you for an educated response?

[Welshbeef]

Armchair_Expert said:

Martin Lewis was on LBC today, stated that the price rise in October will be at LEAST another 600 a year, likely more.

So the average use will have gone from £0.8k to £2.0k to £2.6k+

Latest increase expected in Oct is another +30% on top of the previous increase.

My prediction for my own usage sadly does look on track to be circa £7k so we will leave from a really low fixed in Q4 2023 to probably 3x increase. Urgh.

[Earthdweller]

Biggy Stardust said:

djc206 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Perhaps because the recipients are now living significantly longer than was originally the case.

Does it hark back to the days of the police a bit more military in a sense? (The old days of parades grounds etc). Frontline policing is definitely a young persons game, tough work. My dad retired at 49.5, the pension was good but not enough at that age especially with kids still at home. Like most ex services people he took his skills into the private sector and has now semi retired at 62 which is more ‘normal’.

I’m in a weird halfway house where the role I work in was public sector many moons ago but not any more but I’m still in a DB pension, new staff have been DC for more than a decade). This year has actually been a bit of a stter because of the effect of inflation on Pension Input Amount, I’ve copped a fairly substantial tax bill and will almost certainly end up with another next year, I know boo fking hoo but it does expose a rare downside to DB. Oh how the DC members have mocked us.

Nevertheless it's quite feasible for someone to retire after 30 years' working and live 45 years on their pension, getting more in pension than they ever did in salary even after adjusting for inflation.
Even the most ardent advocate will struggle to say that this is anything other than excessively generous and it needed to be reined in.

The Police pension scheme, as was, and until fked about with by May and Camoron was actually very clever and pretty much self funding ( ie the serving officers contributions paid the retired one’s pensions )

It was designed to keep experienced people in and make in unattractive to stay beyond the 30 years and bare in mind the maximum age for Constable’s and Sergeants used to be 55 ( Inspector Up was 60 )

Trap skilled experienced officers in their 30’s/40’s in and spit them out when they got into their 50’s

And it worked … absolutely it did

The life expectancy of retired PC’s having done 30 years of shifts in hell didn’t used to be very good, although that seems to be changing

The change from a lifetime vocation of service with a good pension as payback has deliberately been destroyed and turned into a “normal job” that people do for a few years before or after moving onto something else rather than “ the job”

Now that people aren’t joining the police for life and the pension is nowhere near as attractive a large number of recruits are not joining the pension which means that the police element on council tax and contribution on National tax spend has to rise to make up the shortfall as the pensions are paid directly out of the budget and not from any pension fund

Sadly we are already seeing the disaster that that political decision is causing in many areas

Anyway sorry for the slight thread derail